Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 Clicks & Pops
Come to think about it, I haven't heard mine click and pop in quite some time. I doubt that it's seasonal, but that is an interesting twist. I doubt that my room or the dormant equipment varies over +/- 2°F over any given 24 hr period. 73 Bob, K4TAX On 4/7/2019 1:11 PM, Andy Durbin wrote: This will only be of interest to a few KPA500 owners - those who don't think loud clicks/ticks/pops are acceptable. In the message below I reported that I had lost interest in my investigation because the click/ticks had stopped. That message is dated October 2018. Late March the ticks came back and now, early April, they are back to the annoying level that I experienced in 2018. What's different? Room temperature and consequently the powered on but not transmitting temperature of the KPA500 is much lower in the winter months. Although I lost interest in the investigation I continued to record PA temperature, heat sink temperature, and Z bracket temperature for every transmission I made. That's a lot of data but differences between summer and winter operating conditions may be interesting. I plan to pick a few mid winter samples to compare with a few peak summer samples. Has anyone else who is annoyed by KPA500 click/ticks noticed any correlation with room temperature? 73, Andy, k3wyc From: ANDY DURBIN Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2018 6:52 AM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: KPA500 Clicks & Pops I found this quite annoying too. My approach was to try to understand how the Z bracket temperature varied relative to the heat sink temperature. I placed a thermistor on the front end of the Z bracket and another on the heat sink fin closest to the Z bracket. I logged the standard PA temperature and these additional thermistor temperatures for every transmission I made (still do). I established baseline temperature characteristics and planned to use this data to see if any mods I made changed the characteristics. Surprise! - When I though I had enough data to move on to the next step in the investigation it stopped clicking. Adding the thermistors only required removal of the front panel and the Z bracket screws were no touched. It continued to click after the thermistors were added and then stopped a few weeks later. The data show the rapid change in temperature is at the PA sensor only. The heat sink and Z bracket change much more slowly and never have a large temperature difference. Their temperatures do cross over though. One problem with temperature logging is that I had no data, except for my test notes , on the clicks themselves. I had planned to added some inexpensive sound detection modules and add this data to the logger. That's on hold until the clicks come back. It's really nice not to have the amp click continuously on every FT8 transmission. I wish I knew what fixed it. 73, Andy k3wyc __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Elecraft] KPA500 Clicks & Pops
This will only be of interest to a few KPA500 owners - those who don't think loud clicks/ticks/pops are acceptable. In the message below I reported that I had lost interest in my investigation because the click/ticks had stopped. That message is dated October 2018. Late March the ticks came back and now, early April, they are back to the annoying level that I experienced in 2018. What's different? Room temperature and consequently the powered on but not transmitting temperature of the KPA500 is much lower in the winter months. Although I lost interest in the investigation I continued to record PA temperature, heat sink temperature, and Z bracket temperature for every transmission I made. That's a lot of data but differences between summer and winter operating conditions may be interesting. I plan to pick a few mid winter samples to compare with a few peak summer samples. Has anyone else who is annoyed by KPA500 click/ticks noticed any correlation with room temperature? 73, Andy, k3wyc From: ANDY DURBIN Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2018 6:52 AM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: KPA500 Clicks & Pops I found this quite annoying too. My approach was to try to understand how the Z bracket temperature varied relative to the heat sink temperature. I placed a thermistor on the front end of the Z bracket and another on the heat sink fin closest to the Z bracket. I logged the standard PA temperature and these additional thermistor temperatures for every transmission I made (still do). I established baseline temperature characteristics and planned to use this data to see if any mods I made changed the characteristics. Surprise! - When I though I had enough data to move on to the next step in the investigation it stopped clicking. Adding the thermistors only required removal of the front panel and the Z bracket screws were no touched. It continued to click after the thermistors were added and then stopped a few weeks later. The data show the rapid change in temperature is at the PA sensor only. The heat sink and Z bracket change much more slowly and never have a large temperature difference. Their temperatures do cross over though. One problem with temperature logging is that I had no data, except for my test notes , on the clicks themselves. I had planned to added some inexpensive sound detection modules and add this data to the logger. That's on hold until the clicks come back. It's really nice not to have the amp click continuously on every FT8 transmission. I wish I knew what fixed it. 73, Andy k3wyc __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 Clicks & Pops
Folks, this endless topic has been discussed before in depth on thenlist and is available in the archives. In the interest of keeping list volume and SNR reasonable, lets end this thread. In general, please take discussions and arguments about appropriate power levels for any mode off list for discussion. 73, Eric Moderater elecraft.com _..._ > On Oct 17, 2018, at 3:13 PM, Wes Stewart wrote: > > Ed, > > Not picking on you personally either but I fail to understand this attitude > that because some digital mode or another can make QSOs with 10 mW on some > path, everyone else should run only10 mW. > > I consider my K3S + KPA500 to be a 500W transceiver (with push buttons for > selecting bands) and that's the way I run it. Often, especially when I'm > beating myself up on 160, I wish for more power. When some of my DX club > buddies tease me about running QRP should I ask them to lower their power so > we have parity? > > Wes N7WS > > ps: When I ran 2-meter EME 30 years ago we actually heard the signals by ear. > > >> On 10/17/2018 1:34 PM, Edward R Cole wrote: >> Bob, >> >> A question about your statement that you run 400w in digital modes (assuming >> you mean FT8, etc. and not RTTY). That seems pretty extreme. >> >> I pretty much ignore HF usage as I am not on HF very much (primarily an >> eme'er on 6m+). But back at the beginnings of psk-31 I built a HB >> interface* for my FT-847 and did a bit of 14.070 operating (with a dipole). >> I was recommended to not exceeding 25w (or 25% full power). Everyone seemed >> to do quite well on psk-31 with low power and some ran at QRP (<5w). >> >> I do not get why I hear of running high power digital when 10% would >> communicate easily. You may remonstrate me for running 2m-eme at 1500w on >> JT-65 but the path loss on 2m-eme is 254 dB+ and contacts are made over a >> half-million mile path. Certainly not encountered by terrestrial HF users. >> >> Not picking on you personally, but you made the statement so figure maybe >> would reply. Just curious. >> >> 73, Ed - KL7UW >> * that I/F later was used for JT-65 on eme 15 years ago. Now use my K3 >> directly connected. >> >> Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2018 16:59:15 -0500 >> From: Bob McGraw K4TAX >> To: "Dauer, Edward" >> Cc: "elecraft@mailman.qth.net" >> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 Clicks & Pops >> Message-ID: >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >> >> I do run 400 watts or so on digital modes. Issues are not really noted on >> SSB or CW modes. >> >> I've set the Fan Ctr to 2 and 3 and still noted the issue >> >> Was recently showing my K Line to some hams friends. They commented rather >> negatively on the point. >> >> Bob, K4TAX >> >> >> 73, Ed - KL7UW >> http://www.kl7uw.com >> Dubus-NA Business mail: >> dubus...@gmail.com >> __ >> Elecraft mailing list >> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >> Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net >> >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >> Message delivered to wes_n...@triconet.org >> > > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to eric.swa...@elecraft.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 Clicks & Pops
Guess I got a few replies to my comments. I will try to respond to all in this one: James-w6jhb: Bob did reply back and was referring to using digital on 160m, which is harder to work than upper bands like 20m. More power helps. I have done some operating on 600m (before it became a ham band) and FCC limits 630m operations to 5w EIRP which is a real test of ability and equipment. Yet CW and digital modes are making some surprising DX contacts on a band that is not known for ionospheric prop (D-layer only). Wes-N7WS: Uh, I never mentioned running 10mw. I did suggest 10% (of full power) might be quite adequate on digital. So that would be 150w for a KPA1500 or 50w for a KPA500. Yes, I have heard that some are making HF digital contacts at 10mw (or such) but that is a personal challenge (as I see it). Again 160m is a special case with limited prop as compared to 20-10m. I would probably use full power if I were on 160m (currently that is 100w from my KXPA100). Many still use CW on eme but that is on 432 and up these days. 6m-eme is 100% digital and 2m-eme is 99%. I made some of my early 2m contacts using CW. Fred-K6DWG: Sorry but you are not correct on how JT65, FT8, and other WSJT modes work. Yes, you run the receiver RF bandwidth at nominal 2.5-KHz (SSB) width but that is just to make operating with various Doppler offsets easier (as you can see all the signals within the wider bw. But the detection bw of JT65 is 4.7 Hz and that is a large part of why it is approx 10-dB more sensitive than CW. S+N/N of 4.7 Hz over 50-Hz (apparent detection bw of the human ear/brain) does reduce the noise power vs signal. JT-65 and other of these digital modes are FSK with the sw detecting single tones. The shift freq of JT-65 is over a wider range but that does not affect detection. I believe psk-31 is much wider detection bw (often referred to as RBW) so it is not near as good for weak signal operation. I understand that more power may be needed to overcome HF noise floors that are much higher than VHF+ where eme is done. Still not convinced that one needs QRO for terrestrial path loss. QRM maybe requires it. I have no local eme QRM. Pile ups are on the receiving end of multiple stations calling me (KL7 is rare on eme). Bob-K4TAX: Yeah I get it. It depends on frequency band as far as how well signals reach. As I already stated, I never mentioned 10mw (Wes thru that into the discussion) but I do think one does not need to run the same power as a CW or SSB contact if using a NB digital mode. Of course that varies with band conditions and distance worked. FT8 (in particular) is getting thru when poor band conditions prevent CW/SSB from happening. Using the power necessary is a given - just don't see that running (near) max power is necessary (all the time which seems to be the HF mentality - regardless of mode or conditions). BTW my 495 KHz 5w EIRP CW signal has been detected about 4,000 miles, so its quite possible. FCC limits 630m ham operation to 5w EIRP (which is about what I get running 100w output from my PA and due to 4% antenna efficiency). Thanks for bearing with this multi-part reply; figured it would use less list bandwidth with this approach. Probably not worth further on-list commentary; reply direct to me if any of you want to continue, 73, Ed - KL7UW http://www.kl7uw.com Dubus-NA Business mail: dubus...@gmail.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 Clicks & Pops
That digital modes are all "low power modes" is an unfortunate urban legend, Ed. PSK31 is very narrow and will work well in very narrow RX bandwidths. Noise power, being proportional to bandwidth, will thus be less on each end, and lower powers work well. It's also angle modulation and moderately immune to at least Gaussian noise. JT65, FT8, and the other Dr. Joe Taylor modes are "weak signal" not "low power" modes. They operate in roughly a SSB voice channel bandwidth [~3 KHz] even though each signal is very narrow. They will decode at negative (S+N)/N ratios in a ~3 KHz channel where there will be many such signals. With today's abysmal conditions, even 1,500 W may result in a negative (S+N)/N ratio on the other end. It's the terrestrial equivalent of your lunar path, and no remonstration is required or deserved. 73, Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW Sparks NV DM09dn Washoe County On 10/17/2018 1:34 PM, Edward R Cole wrote: Bob, A question about your statement that you run 400w in digital modes (assuming you mean FT8, etc. and not RTTY). That seems pretty extreme. I pretty much ignore HF usage as I am not on HF very much (primarily an eme'er on 6m+). But back at the beginnings of psk-31 I built a HB interface* for my FT-847 and did a bit of 14.070 operating (with a dipole). I was recommended to not exceeding 25w (or 25% full power). Everyone seemed to do quite well on psk-31 with low power and some ran at QRP (<5w). I do not get why I hear of running high power digital when 10% would communicate easily. You may remonstrate me for running 2m-eme at 1500w on JT-65 but the path loss on 2m-eme is 254 dB+ and contacts are made over a half-million mile path. Certainly not encountered by terrestrial HF users. Not picking on you personally, but you made the statement so figure maybe would reply. Just curious. 73, Ed - KL7UW * that I/F later was used for JT-65 on eme 15 years ago. Now use my K3 directly connected. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 Clicks & Pops
Ed, Not picking on you personally either but I fail to understand this attitude that because some digital mode or another can make QSOs with 10 mW on some path, everyone else should run only10 mW. I consider my K3S + KPA500 to be a 500W transceiver (with push buttons for selecting bands) and that's the way I run it. Often, especially when I'm beating myself up on 160, I wish for more power. When some of my DX club buddies tease me about running QRP should I ask them to lower their power so we have parity? Wes N7WS ps: When I ran 2-meter EME 30 years ago we actually heard the signals by ear. On 10/17/2018 1:34 PM, Edward R Cole wrote: Bob, A question about your statement that you run 400w in digital modes (assuming you mean FT8, etc. and not RTTY). That seems pretty extreme. I pretty much ignore HF usage as I am not on HF very much (primarily an eme'er on 6m+). But back at the beginnings of psk-31 I built a HB interface* for my FT-847 and did a bit of 14.070 operating (with a dipole). I was recommended to not exceeding 25w (or 25% full power). Everyone seemed to do quite well on psk-31 with low power and some ran at QRP (<5w). I do not get why I hear of running high power digital when 10% would communicate easily. You may remonstrate me for running 2m-eme at 1500w on JT-65 but the path loss on 2m-eme is 254 dB+ and contacts are made over a half-million mile path. Certainly not encountered by terrestrial HF users. Not picking on you personally, but you made the statement so figure maybe would reply. Just curious. 73, Ed - KL7UW * that I/F later was used for JT-65 on eme 15 years ago. Now use my K3 directly connected. Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2018 16:59:15 -0500 From: Bob McGraw K4TAX To: "Dauer, Edward" Cc: "elecraft@mailman.qth.net" Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 Clicks & Pops Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I do run 400 watts or so on digital modes. Issues are not really noted on SSB or CW modes. I've set the Fan Ctr to 2 and 3 and still noted the issue Was recently showing my K Line to some hams friends. They commented rather negatively on the point. Bob, K4TAX 73, Ed - KL7UW http://www.kl7uw.com Dubus-NA Business mail: dubus...@gmail.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to wes_n...@triconet.org __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 Clicks & Pops
Ed, Haven’t seen a response from him yet, but he may be taking about 160 meters. From what I have read, that may be an acceptable thing on that band, given QSB, band conditions, and antenna limitations. Jim / W6JHB > On Oct 17, 2018, at 1:34 PM, Edward R Cole wrote: > > Bob, > > A question about your statement that you run 400w in digital modes (assuming > you mean FT8, etc. and not RTTY). That seems pretty extreme. > > I pretty much ignore HF usage as I am not on HF very much (primarily an > eme'er on 6m+). But back at the beginnings of psk-31 I built a HB interface* > for my FT-847 and did a bit of 14.070 operating (with a dipole). I was > recommended to not exceeding 25w (or 25% full power). Everyone seemed to do > quite well on psk-31 with low power and some ran at QRP (<5w). > > I do not get why I hear of running high power digital when 10% would > communicate easily. You may remonstrate me for running 2m-eme at 1500w on > JT-65 but the path loss on 2m-eme is 254 dB+ and contacts are made over a > half-million mile path. Certainly not encountered by terrestrial HF users. > > Not picking on you personally, but you made the statement so figure maybe > would reply. Just curious. > > 73, Ed - KL7UW > * that I/F later was used for JT-65 on eme 15 years ago. Now use my K3 > directly connected. > > Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2018 16:59:15 -0500 > From: Bob McGraw K4TAX > To: "Dauer, Edward" > Cc: "elecraft@mailman.qth.net" > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 Clicks & Pops > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > I do run 400 watts or so on digital modes. Issues are not really noted on > SSB or CW modes. > > I've set the Fan Ctr to 2 and 3 and still noted the issue > > Was recently showing my K Line to some hams friends. They commented rather > negatively on the point. > > Bob, K4TAX > > > 73, Ed - KL7UW > http://www.kl7uw.com > Dubus-NA Business mail: > dubus...@gmail.com > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to w6...@me.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 Clicks & Pops
Bob, A question about your statement that you run 400w in digital modes (assuming you mean FT8, etc. and not RTTY). That seems pretty extreme. I pretty much ignore HF usage as I am not on HF very much (primarily an eme'er on 6m+). But back at the beginnings of psk-31 I built a HB interface* for my FT-847 and did a bit of 14.070 operating (with a dipole). I was recommended to not exceeding 25w (or 25% full power). Everyone seemed to do quite well on psk-31 with low power and some ran at QRP (<5w). I do not get why I hear of running high power digital when 10% would communicate easily. You may remonstrate me for running 2m-eme at 1500w on JT-65 but the path loss on 2m-eme is 254 dB+ and contacts are made over a half-million mile path. Certainly not encountered by terrestrial HF users. Not picking on you personally, but you made the statement so figure maybe would reply. Just curious. 73, Ed - KL7UW * that I/F later was used for JT-65 on eme 15 years ago. Now use my K3 directly connected. Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2018 16:59:15 -0500 From: Bob McGraw K4TAX To: "Dauer, Edward" Cc: "elecraft@mailman.qth.net" Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 Clicks & Pops Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I do run 400 watts or so on digital modes. Issues are not really noted on SSB or CW modes. I've set the Fan Ctr to 2 and 3 and still noted the issue Was recently showing my K Line to some hams friends. They commented rather negatively on the point. Bob, K4TAX 73, Ed - KL7UW http://www.kl7uw.com Dubus-NA Business mail: dubus...@gmail.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
[Elecraft] KPA500 Clicks & Pops
"If you can figure out how to keep the relatively thin "Z" panel from expanding and contracting as it is heated and cooled, you will have a solution to the problem." If the Z bracket really is the source of the noise, and I'm not yet convinced it is, then there is no need to stop it expanding and contracting. All that is needed is to change the mechanical interface between the Z bracket and whatever is binding and releasing to cause the clicks. My plan was to put thin Mylar sheet between the Z bracket and the parts to which it is attached. I was going to start with the Z bracket to heat sink interface. I was not willing to do that until I had characterized the Z bracket temperature dynamics and understood the heat flow between the Z bracket and the heat sink. I have the data but no longer have the clicks. 73, Andy k3wyc __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 Clicks & Pops
All, If you can figure out how to keep the relatively thin "Z" panel from expanding and contracting as it is heated and cooled, you will have a solution to the problem. It reminds me of my childhood days living with a coal furnace. The furnace had an inner cast iron furnace surrounded by a sheet metal shell as the air plenum. It was comforting on a cold winter's morning to hear that sheet metal expanding because that was the 1st indication that warm air was coming. It was my job to shake down the ashes, put coal in and stoke up the fire in the mornings. 73, Don W3FPR On 10/16/2018 5:59 PM, Bob McGraw K4TAX wrote: I do run 400 watts or so on digital modes. Issues are not really noted on SSB or CW modes. I've set the Fan Ctr to 2 and 3 and still noted the issue Was recently showing my K Line to some hams friends. They commented rather negatively on the point. Bob, K4TAX Sent from my iPhone On Oct 16, 2018, at 4:52 PM, Dauer, Edward wrote: I've not experienced the problem with kit-built S/N 0651. But then, I have never used it on high duty cycle data modes. Ted, KN1CBR -- Message: 25 Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2018 14:13:55 -0700 From: Dennis Moore To: Elecraft Reflector Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 Clicks & Pops Message-ID: <0497f5c1-6e76-75be-53c4-4acf668d9...@mail4life.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed I rarely hear anything from my KPA500-F. Serious question, I wonder if those with the kit experience more noise than those with factory assembled units? Dennis NJ6G __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to rmcg...@blomand.net __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to donw...@embarqmail.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 Clicks & Pops
I do run 400 watts or so on digital modes. Issues are not really noted on SSB or CW modes. I've set the Fan Ctr to 2 and 3 and still noted the issue Was recently showing my K Line to some hams friends. They commented rather negatively on the point. Bob, K4TAX Sent from my iPhone > On Oct 16, 2018, at 4:52 PM, Dauer, Edward wrote: > > > I've not experienced the problem with kit-built S/N 0651. But then, I have > never used it on high duty cycle data modes. > > Ted, KN1CBR > > > >-- > >Message: 25 >Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2018 14:13:55 -0700 >From: Dennis Moore >To: Elecraft Reflector >Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 Clicks & Pops >Message-ID: <0497f5c1-6e76-75be-53c4-4acf668d9...@mail4life.net> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed > >I rarely hear anything from my KPA500-F. Serious question, I wonder if >those with the kit experience more noise than those with factory >assembled units? > >Dennis NJ6G > > > > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to rmcg...@blomand.net > __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 Clicks & Pops
On 10/16/2018 1:56 PM, Bob McGraw K4TAX wrote: I've tried to determine where the clicks originate without success. This is a much discussed issue. Check the archive. Call or email Elecraft if you want to know more. 73, Jim K9YC __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
[Elecraft] KPA500 Clicks & Pops
I've not experienced the problem with kit-built S/N 0651. But then, I have never used it on high duty cycle data modes. Ted, KN1CBR -- Message: 25 Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2018 14:13:55 -0700 From: Dennis Moore To: Elecraft Reflector Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 Clicks & Pops Message-ID: <0497f5c1-6e76-75be-53c4-4acf668d9...@mail4life.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed I rarely hear anything from my KPA500-F. Serious question, I wonder if those with the kit experience more noise than those with factory assembled units? Dennis NJ6G __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 Clicks & Pops
Mine was a kit and does the same thing. Sort of like Railroad Welded Rail, in the summer it expands and shrinks in the winter. We had the same issue with #6 solid copper on the communications lines. It only does it on the KPA500 when I do a lot of RTTY or FT8. Very seldom on SSB or CW. ED..AB4IQ -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Dennis Moore Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2018 4:14 PM To: Elecraft Reflector Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 Clicks & Pops I rarely hear anything from my KPA500-F. Serious question, I wonder if those with the kit experience more noise than those with factory assembled units? Dennis NJ6G On 10/14/2018 19:52, Bob McGraw K4TAX wrote: > What is the recommended solution to stopping the clicks and pops from > the KPA500 as the amp heats during transmission and cools during > receive? I've seen one that suggested replacing the screws in the Z > bracket with 4-40 x 1/4".Any traction to this? > > The amp performs absolutely fantastic. The clicks and pops are more > annoying when working high duty cycle modes. > > Thanks in advance. > > 73 > > Bob, K4TAX > > KPA500 s/n 3519 __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to ab...@comcast.net __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 Clicks & Pops
Mine was a kit (sn 267) and I've never heard any noises from it whatever. Kent K9ZTV On 10/16/2018 4:13 PM, Dennis Moore wrote: I wonder if those with the kit experience more noise than those with factory assembled units? --- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. https://www.avg.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 Clicks & Pops
I did a FT on the device and never an issue. Building requires a bit of electro mechanical skills that some do not have. When I read the issues, I wonder about how it was built or modified. 73, Bill K9YEQ https://wrj-tech.com/ -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net On Behalf Of Dennis Moore Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2018 4:14 PM To: Elecraft Reflector Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 Clicks & Pops I rarely hear anything from my KPA500-F. Serious question, I wonder if those with the kit experience more noise than those with factory assembled units? Dennis NJ6G On 10/14/2018 19:52, Bob McGraw K4TAX wrote: > What is the recommended solution to stopping the clicks and pops from > the KPA500 as the amp heats during transmission and cools during > receive? I've seen one that suggested replacing the screws in the Z > bracket with 4-40 x 1/4". Any traction to this? > > The amp performs absolutely fantastic. The clicks and pops are more > annoying when working high duty cycle modes. > > Thanks in advance. > > 73 > > Bob, K4TAX > > KPA500 s/n 3519 __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to k9...@live.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 Clicks & Pops
Mine is a KPA500-F s/n 3519 thus it is factory assembled. 73 Bob, K4TAX On 10/16/2018 4:13 PM, Dennis Moore wrote: I rarely hear anything from my KPA500-F. Serious question, I wonder if those with the kit experience more noise than those with factory assembled units? Dennis NJ6G On 10/14/2018 19:52, Bob McGraw K4TAX wrote: What is the recommended solution to stopping the clicks and pops from the KPA500 as the amp heats during transmission and cools during receive? I've seen one that suggested replacing the screws in the Z bracket with 4-40 x 1/4". Any traction to this? The amp performs absolutely fantastic. The clicks and pops are more annoying when working high duty cycle modes. Thanks in advance. 73 Bob, K4TAX KPA500 s/n 3519 __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to rmcg...@blomand.net __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 Clicks & Pops
I rarely hear anything from my KPA500-F. Serious question, I wonder if those with the kit experience more noise than those with factory assembled units? Dennis NJ6G On 10/14/2018 19:52, Bob McGraw K4TAX wrote: What is the recommended solution to stopping the clicks and pops from the KPA500 as the amp heats during transmission and cools during receive? I've seen one that suggested replacing the screws in the Z bracket with 4-40 x 1/4". Any traction to this? The amp performs absolutely fantastic. The clicks and pops are more annoying when working high duty cycle modes. Thanks in advance. 73 Bob, K4TAX KPA500 s/n 3519 __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 Clicks & Pops
I've tried to determine where the clicks originate without success. I've loosened screws on the top and right side and tightened screws on the top and right side. No difference. Perhaps someone at Elecraft will add a comment in this regard. I did observe that the 5 screws at the center of the top cover are longer than the others. I'm really at a loss as to the somewhat annoying Rice Krispies Snap Crackle and Pop. Still love the amp in all other aspects. 73 Bob, K4TAX On 10/16/2018 8:52 AM, ANDY DURBIN wrote: I found this quite annoying too. My approach was to try to understand how the Z bracket temperature varied relative to the heat sink temperature. I placed a thermistor on the front end of the Z bracket and another on the heat sink fin closest to the Z bracket. I logged the standard PA temperature and these additional thermistor temperatures for every transmission I made (still do). I established baseline temperature characteristics and planned to use this data to see if any mods I made changed the characteristics. Surprise! - When I though I had enough data to move on to the next step in the investigation it stopped clicking. Adding the thermistors only required removal of the front panel and the Z bracket screws were no touched. It continued to click after the thermistors were added and then stopped a few weeks later. The data show the rapid change in temperature is at the PA sensor only. The heat sink and Z bracket change much more slowly and never have a large temperature difference. Their temperatures do cross over though. One problem with temperature logging is that I had no data, except for my test notes , on the clicks themselves. I had planned to added some inexpensive sound detection modules and add this data to the logger. That's on hold until the clicks come back. It's really nice not to have the amp click continuously on every FT8 transmission. I wish I knew what fixed it. 73, Andy k3wyc __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to rmcg...@blomand.net __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
[Elecraft] KPA500 Clicks & Pops
I found this quite annoying too. My approach was to try to understand how the Z bracket temperature varied relative to the heat sink temperature. I placed a thermistor on the front end of the Z bracket and another on the heat sink fin closest to the Z bracket. I logged the standard PA temperature and these additional thermistor temperatures for every transmission I made (still do). I established baseline temperature characteristics and planned to use this data to see if any mods I made changed the characteristics. Surprise! - When I though I had enough data to move on to the next step in the investigation it stopped clicking. Adding the thermistors only required removal of the front panel and the Z bracket screws were no touched. It continued to click after the thermistors were added and then stopped a few weeks later. The data show the rapid change in temperature is at the PA sensor only. The heat sink and Z bracket change much more slowly and never have a large temperature difference. Their temperatures do cross over though. One problem with temperature logging is that I had no data, except for my test notes , on the clicks themselves. I had planned to added some inexpensive sound detection modules and add this data to the logger. That's on hold until the clicks come back. It's really nice not to have the amp click continuously on every FT8 transmission. I wish I knew what fixed it. 73, Andy k3wyc __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 Clicks & Pops
Ear plugs. Sent from my iPhone ...nr4c. bill > On Oct 14, 2018, at 10:52 PM, Bob McGraw K4TAX wrote: > > What is the recommended solution to stopping the clicks and pops from the > KPA500 as the amp heats during transmission and cools during receive? I've > seen one that suggested replacing the screws in the Z bracket with 4-40 x > 1/4".Any traction to this? > > The amp performs absolutely fantastic. The clicks and pops are more annoying > when working high duty cycle modes. > > Thanks in advance. > > 73 > > Bob, K4TAX > > KPA500 s/n 3519 > > > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to n...@widomaker.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
[Elecraft] KPA500 Clicks & Pops
What is the recommended solution to stopping the clicks and pops from the KPA500 as the amp heats during transmission and cools during receive? I've seen one that suggested replacing the screws in the Z bracket with 4-40 x 1/4". Any traction to this? The amp performs absolutely fantastic. The clicks and pops are more annoying when working high duty cycle modes. Thanks in advance. 73 Bob, K4TAX KPA500 s/n 3519 __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
