RE: [Elecraft] OT: THIS is the big deal about CW Skimmer
W6IZT-2 wrote: All debates aside, Alex VE3NEA cranks out some true amazing software! Then perhaps he should be credited with all the extra points earned with it! :) OK, I've just caught up with the fact that Eric has called time on this discussion. If anyone still wants to talk about it, let's carry on at http://www.zerobeat.net/smf/index.php/topic,164.0.html . - Julian, G4ILO K3 s/n: 222 K2 s/n: 392 G4ILO's Shack: www.g4ilo.com Zerobeat Ham Forums: www.zerobeat.net/smf -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/OT%3A-THIS-is-the-big-deal-about-CW-Skimmer-tp15326081p15329857.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
[Elecraft] OT: THIS is the big deal about CW Skimmer
OK...here it is in a nutshell. 1. CW Skimmer will profoundly change serious-level contesting forever 2. Serious contesters use two radios at once (called SO2R or single op, 2 radios). While they CQ on one band (using a memory keyer...voice or cw), they TUNE a 2nd band, looking for additional contacts, using their 2nd radio. This is very intense contesting and require super-human concentration and skill to be really successful. It means that you are constantly switching focus from the Radio A to Radio B (the switching is automatic, controlled by the contest software). 3. Currently, tuning the 2nd band is a manual process, requiring one to (a) find stations between CQs on the other band, and (b) copy who it is and (c) then decide if you need it or not and if you do, (d) work it while not losing your RUN frequency (the first radio frequency where you are CQing and working guys who answer your CQs). 4. With CW Skimmer, one no longer has to use their skill to (a) tune the 2nd band and (b) figure out who it is. The computer does this for youand all at once for the whole band. 5. The entire basis for CONTESTING is competition...a competition of who has the best set of HUMAN skills...skills at using their equipment, but mostly skills at copying callsigns and working guys and tuning a second radio and doing the same. With CW Skimmer, the second radio skill is effectively eliminated. The computer does it for you. This is VERY FAR from DSP, or a yagi, or an amp, or an electronic keyer because. Those things made CHORES easier. This thing makes the only human element left (tuning the band and finding callsign) meaningless. It eliminates the HUMAN element. All you need now is a clerk to point and shoot or point and click whatever you want to call it. 6. With this tool, a single op can now be SO6R and have a CW SKimmer on every band. Someone will write a script so that multipliers bubble up as found...and even non-mults, but new Q's, will be easily flagged (and worked). YOu wont have to waste time tuning and copying the callsign of stuff that you already worked. 7. CW decoders (such as included on Elecraft K3) only copy one signal, which YOU tuned to. This thing does the whole band at once. 8. Yes, it is like an automatic packet/internet band-mapping tool, except that use of those places one in the Assisted or unlimited category, separate and apart from single op all band. Under the current rules for all contest, the addition of CW Skimmer will NOT cause a change in category away from Single Op All Band to the Assisted or Unlimited category. How could it? Nobody else is helping you get the callsigns. 9. For many, especially those who feel that packet ruined contesting or that packet ruined DXing, this may turn out to be the packet ruined contesting of the 21st century. As many have pointed out (if you want to read A LOT on this, go to the CQ-Contest Reflector: www.contesting.com ), with this tool, there is currently no way to tell if the guy has a 2nd op in the shack, is using packet, or is using CW SKimmer. It makes adjudication a nightmare (probably, impossible). 10. Serious SOAB contesters have long done everything possible to keep their category separate and apart from packet/internet users. They want to keep the category pure. This will make that job very, very difficult. Why keep it out? The same reason sailboat races do not allow engines/motors. The same reason why the Daytona 500 does not allow jet engines to be used. The same reason why people climb mountains instead of taking a helicopter. The same reason why some folks only Bow-Hunt. Sorry for the bandwidth, but there seems to be a fair about of interest in this topic. Hope this helps paint a clearer picture. de Doug KR2Q ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] OT: THIS is the big deal about CW Skimmer
In a word, YUCK! Neal WA6OCP K3/10/305 DOUGLAS ZWIEBEL wrote: OK...here it is in a nutshell. 1. CW Skimmer will profoundly change serious-level contesting forever 2. Serious contesters use two radios at once (called SO2R or single op, 2 radios). While they CQ on one band (using a memory keyer...voice or cw), they TUNE a 2nd band, looking for additional contacts, using their 2nd radio. This is very intense contesting and require super-human concentration and skill to be really successful. It means that you are constantly switching focus from the Radio A to Radio B (the switching is automatic, controlled by the contest software). 3. Currently, tuning the 2nd band is a manual process, requiring one to (a) find stations between CQs on the other band, and (b) copy who it is and (c) then decide if you need it or not and if you do, (d) work it while not losing your RUN frequency (the first radio frequency where you are CQing and working guys who answer your CQs). 4. With CW Skimmer, one no longer has to use their skill to (a) tune the 2nd band and (b) figure out who it is. The computer does this for youand all at once for the whole band. 5. The entire basis for CONTESTING is competition...a competition of who has the best set of HUMAN skills...skills at using their equipment, but mostly skills at copying callsigns and working guys and tuning a second radio and doing the same. With CW Skimmer, the second radio skill is effectively eliminated. The computer does it for you. This is VERY FAR from DSP, or a yagi, or an amp, or an electronic keyer because. Those things made CHORES easier. This thing makes the only human element left (tuning the band and finding callsign) meaningless. It eliminates the HUMAN element. All you need now is a clerk to point and shoot or point and click whatever you want to call it. 6. With this tool, a single op can now be SO6R and have a CW SKimmer on every band. Someone will write a script so that multipliers bubble up as found...and even non-mults, but new Q's, will be easily flagged (and worked). YOu wont have to waste time tuning and copying the callsign of stuff that you already worked. 7. CW decoders (such as included on Elecraft K3) only copy one signal, which YOU tuned to. This thing does the whole band at once. 8. Yes, it is like an automatic packet/internet band-mapping tool, except that use of those places one in the Assisted or unlimited category, separate and apart from single op all band. Under the current rules for all contest, the addition of CW Skimmer will NOT cause a change in category away from Single Op All Band to the Assisted or Unlimited category. How could it? Nobody else is helping you get the callsigns. 9. For many, especially those who feel that packet ruined contesting or that packet ruined DXing, this may turn out to be the packet ruined contesting of the 21st century. As many have pointed out (if you want to read A LOT on this, go to the CQ-Contest Reflector: www.contesting.com ), with this tool, there is currently no way to tell if the guy has a 2nd op in the shack, is using packet, or is using CW SKimmer. It makes adjudication a nightmare (probably, impossible). 10. Serious SOAB contesters have long done everything possible to keep their category separate and apart from packet/internet users. They want to keep the category pure. This will make that job very, very difficult. Why keep it out? The same reason sailboat races do not allow engines/motors. The same reason why the Daytona 500 does not allow jet engines to be used. The same reason why people climb mountains instead of taking a helicopter. The same reason why some folks only Bow-Hunt. Sorry for the bandwidth, but there seems to be a fair about of interest in this topic. Hope this helps paint a clearer picture. de Doug KR2Q ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/OT%3A-THIS-is-the-big-deal-about-CW-Skimmer-tp15326081p15326264.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] OT: THIS is the big deal about CW Skimmer
At 09:05 PM 2/6/2008, DOUGLAS ZWIEBEL wrote... 5. The entire basis for CONTESTING is competition...a competition of who has the best set of HUMAN skills... Hams have (as a whole) always embraced new technology, but there are probably some still complaining that heterodynes are unfair competition for their spark gaps and crystal receivers. Then why do you use electronic equipment? Why a K3 and not a Altoids tin special? Perhaps smoke signals or shouting would be a better test. ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
RE: [Elecraft] OT: THIS is the big deal about CW Skimmer
All debates aside, Alex VE3NEA cranks out some true amazing software! -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of WA6OCP Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 9:28 PM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] OT: THIS is the big deal about CW Skimmer ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] OT: THIS is the big deal about CW Skimmer
On Wed, 6 Feb 2008, Mike S wrote: At 09:05 PM 2/6/2008, DOUGLAS ZWIEBEL wrote... 5. The entire basis for CONTESTING is competition...a competition of who has the best set of HUMAN skills... Hams have (as a whole) always embraced new technology, but there are probably some still complaining that heterodynes are unfair competition for their spark gaps and crystal receivers. Soon the qso will read something like: k3 here, observer is thom. I know you copy this, so don't bother to answer. No need for signal reports, send electronic QSL. 73 k3hrn Thom,EIEIO Email, Internet, Electronic Information Officer www.baltimorehon.com/Home of the Baltimore Lexicon www.tlchost.net/hosting/ Web Hosting as low as 3.49/month ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] OT: THIS is the big deal about CW Skimmer [END of thread]
Let's let the CW skimmer discussion rest for now. We've skimmed off all the meaningful comments... ;-) 73, Eric WA6HHQ Elecraft List Moderator _..._ ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
