subject:"\[Elecraft\] On VHF \& UHF radios"

Re: [Elecraft] On VHF & UHF radios

2015-09-17 Thread Edward R Cole

While its true there is a drop off in numbers of serious weak-signal 
hams, I consider myself one.

I have antennas and equipment for 50/144/222/432/900/1296/2400/3400/10,368 MHz
I do eme on 144 and 1296 and building for 50 and 3400 eme.

Being in Alaska really is in the VHF wilderness as there are few 
stations interested in weak-signal.  Thus use of satellite in 1980 - 
2002 when the phase-3 sats were functioning (high orbit linear 
transponders).  I bought a FT-847 in 1998 specifically for satellite 
and it worked well.  Later I used it for 2m-eme, but it was not 
especially good on HF.

So about 2008 I determined a better approach was to acquire a 
very-good HF radio and marry it to good transverters to get best 
performance on VHF+.  In 2010 I bought the K3/10 and a DEMI 144-28 
transverter.  I had used/built some of their kits before (first in 
1996), so I decided to get the full line from 144 to 1296.  I had 
already purchase a 10-GHz transverter and two 3456 transverter kits 
in 1999 (finally built one 3400-144 kit this spring).

The new L-series transverters from DEMI came out in 2010 so I 
upgraded to that model 144-1296.  They work very well with the 
K3.  In my not-modest opinion they come close to the best combo one 
can buy (db6nt is better but at over twice the cost).  I sold my 
FT-847, reluctantly, but that financed my 222 and 432 transverters.

I'm not convinced trading a FT-847 for the TS2000x is necessarily a 
step up - but I never have used the Kenwood radio.  I am certain my 
K3+transverters will run circles around the Kenwood.  Of course its 
not all in one big box.

About three years ago I began building DEMI transverters for hams as 
a (very) small business.  I am now building the whole line from 
50-MHz to 10-GHz.  Almost getting too busy - but no complaints as 
what I make, funds my hobby.

I have come to conclusion that I enjoy the design/construction part 
of the hobby as much as operating (maybe more).
I am well into my new design main station control panel which should 
improve my reliability factor plus concentrates some of the multiple 
box syndrome.

One of my long-range projects is to marry the K3 and KX3 into a 
cross-band satellite system: KX3-2M and K3 + higher band transverter 
(432 or 1268 or 2401 or 10450).  New satellites coming soon will 
bring back needs for multi-mode VHF equipment (P3E may actually get launched).

Long answer but I can agree with Bob and Jim.

73, Ed - KL7UW

--
From: Jim Lowman <jmlow...@sbcglobal.net>
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] On VHF & UHF radios
Message-ID: <55fa00da.1040...@sbcglobal.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed

That could be, Bob.

I should have phrased my question more specifically.
My intended use for such a transceiver would be weak-signal work.

I had the 2m option for the K3 but, with its low power output, I sold it
and bought a Kenwood TS-2000X to be dedicated to VHF/UHF operation.
However, this type of operation demands high power (at least 100w) and
an antenna with high gain, so I would have to buy an external amplifier
at any rate.
Thus, I might re-think the 2m option from Elecraft.
It's a bonus that The K3(S) can handle up to nine transverters.

At a convention way back in 2001, I became interested in working the
satellites and bought a Yaesu FT-847.
The interest waned eventually, so I sold the 847 toward the purchase of
the TS-2000X.

And no, I don't plan to use the TS-2000X on HF; not when I have a K3 and
a K3S.

73 de Jim - AD6CW

On 9/16/2015 5:03 AM, Bob McGraw - K4TAX wrote:
> I don't view there are many serious VHF and UHF operators today, i.e.
> sufficient to warrant a high performance radio.  Most are repeater
> users.  Seems that a $39 radio model has been proven to be
> satisfactory to most.
>
> The SAT users do require some unique applications to cross band, split
> frequency and address Doppler shift.  The Tropo users need big
> antennas and lots of power and the EME group even more so.  Oh yes,
> the digital modes make things less complex but still, big antennas,
> good receivers and clean transmitters is still mandatory.
>
> I don't find the current breed of "do it all" radios to have
> outstanding performance on VHF and UHF.
>
> 73
> Bob, K4TAX
> K3S s/n 10,163

73, Ed - KL7UW
http://www.kl7uw.com
"Kits made by KL7UW"
Dubus Mag business:
dubus...@gmail.com

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Re: [Elecraft] On VHF & UHF radios

2015-09-17 Thread Dave Olean

There used to be a larger number of "serious weak signal VHF operators, but 
the serious VHF operators are all dying off with no young ones to replace 
them. I use three K3s and  three K2s in my VHF station. I have one Ten Tec 
OMNI V as well on 432. The big difference between a great HF vs VHF radio is 
that LO purity and reciprical mixing performance is paramount on VHF, while 
HF requires the close in dynamic range to be exemplary. I have yet to see a 
good multi mode or "do all" radio from any manufacturer. I have never used 
one in my station as a result. Strong signals on VHf can be a huge problem 
when giant antennas and high locations are in use. Stations 60 or 70 miles 
away can clobber you very easily. ERP levels can approach 150 KW.
   I have always been intrigued by the Sherwood numbers for the Kenwood 
TS-820S and TS-830 with YK88 filters. They don't look so bad in the listing, 
but they were awful on VHF in strong signal environments with high gain (20 
dBd) antennas. Local oscillator noise did not cut it.  The K3 with the new 
synthesizer is about 40 db or more better. I had the Kenwoods back in the 
90's and dumped them for K2s and Ten Tec radios. What a difference. The K3 
is icing on the cake. I started using them soon after they came out. They 
are great on VHF and not too shabby on 160 meters also. (heh heh) I don't 
think I can recall an overload problem with the Elecraft radios or the Ten 
Tec OMNI for that matter. The OMNI V used crystal oscillators in the 1st LO, 
so it was pretty clean. The new K3 synthesizer is awesome. It can handle a 0 
dBm signal next to a -135 dBm signal and live to tell about it!
   I have the 144 built in transverter in one of my K3's, but have not used 
it as it is too low power to drive my big amplifier. Someday I'll resolve 
that situation and it should work great. Of course VHF contesting is 
different in different parts of the country. I live in rural Maine about 250 
or 275 miles from New York City.  I am on the edge of the golden activity 
corridor. From my place, it is unwise to use multi mode Japanese rigs for 
serious contesting. Between the deafness and LO phase noise problems, you 
would have your hands full. Another ham 50 miles away could have a KW and 
large antenna that was line of sight or almost line of sight, and squash 
your receiver like a bug. Every  VHF band here has a good HF radio for the 
receiver. K3s, K2s, and one OMNI V from Ten Tec


Dave K1WHS


- Original Message - 
From: "Bob McGraw - K4TAX" <rmcg...@blomand.net>

To: <elecraft@mailman.qth.net>
Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2015 12:03 PM
Subject: [Elecraft] On VHF & UHF radios


I don't view there are many serious VHF and UHF operators today, i.e. 
sufficient to warrant a high performance radio.  Most are repeater users. 
Seems that a $39 radio model has been proven to be satisfactory to most.


The SAT users do require some unique applications to cross band, split 
frequency and address Doppler shift.  The Tropo users need big antennas 
and lots of power and the EME group even more so.  Oh yes, the digital 
modes make things less complex but still, big antennas, good receivers and 
clean transmitters is still mandatory.


I don't find the current breed of "do it all" radios to have outstanding 
performance on VHF and UHF.


73
Bob, K4TAX
K3S s/n 10,163

On 9/16/2015 6:35 AM, ae...@carolinaheli.com wrote:
I still believe it may be possible with the K3S, KRX3 and transceivers to 
do Full cross band duplex. I'll look more closely after my rig is built 
and on the air. Makes for an expensive stand alone UHF/VHF rig tho unless 
you want HF too. But then it's probably overkill just to work SATs. I'll 
bet with the correct transverter we could hear the mars rovers tho.


Jerry Moore
AE4PB, K3S SN# ARRIVES TODAY!!!


-Original Message-
From: Andy McMullin [mailto:a...@rickham.net]
Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2015 7:22 AM
To: Jerry Moore
Cc: Jim Lowman; elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft SP3 External Speaker details

I’d be interested in that spec too!

Built-in soundcard for digital modes (with one USB connection for it and 
rig control) would be nice as well.


Regards
Andy, G8TQH



On 16 Sep 2015, at 12:06, Jerry Moore <je...@carolinaheli.com> wrote:

If they did a stand alone UHF/VHF I'd suggest it have dual receivers,
cross band tx/rx capability and VFO tracking based on Doppler built in
for SAT work.


[deletia]

My one request to Eric, last year at his presentation at Pacificon,
was for a standalone, all-mode transceiver for 2m and above.
My rationale was that, since Elecraft sells transverters for 2m, 220
MHz and
432 MHz, they already have the technology to make this possible.
It came down to the fact that there may not be a large enough market
for such a transceiver.  Makes sense.

73 de Jim - AD6CW




__
E

Re: [Elecraft] On VHF & UHF radios

2015-09-17 Thread Josh

How young is young? :)

73,
Josh W6XU

P.S. Bob K6QXY says you cut the phasing lines for my 6m EME array. 

Sent from my mobile device

> On Sep 17, 2015, at 10:44 AM, Dave Olean  wrote:
> 
> no young ones to replace them
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Re: [Elecraft] On VHF & UHF radios

2015-09-17 Thread Bill Frantz

I feel the VHF/UHF bug beginning to bite as I very slowly work my way toward a 
Worked All Bands.

How do the Elecraft transverters stack up with the other options?

73 BIll AE6JV

---
Bill Frantz| Truth and love must prevail  | Periwinkle
(408)356-8506  | over lies and hate.  | 16345 Englewood Ave
www.pwpconsult.com |   - Vaclav Havel | Los Gatos, CA 95032

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Re: [Elecraft] On VHF & UHF radios

2015-09-17 Thread Dave Olean


Hi Josh
Young is anyone who has hair left that isn't white.  I think I did tune a 
bunch of phasing lines for Bob and his six meter antenna. I had an HP 875D 
network analyzer and could trim them to one degree. On the higher bands, I 
used a belt sander to trim the coax! It was a good way to trim the cables 
accurately.


Dave K1WHS
- Original Message - 
From: "Josh" <j...@voodoolab.com>

To: "Dave Olean" <k1...@metrocast.net>
Cc: <elecraft@mailman.qth.net>; "Bob McGraw - K4TAX" <rmcg...@blomand.net>
Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2015 6:56 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] On VHF & UHF radios



How young is young? :)

73,
Josh W6XU

P.S. Bob K6QXY says you cut the phasing lines for my 6m EME array.

Sent from my mobile device


On Sep 17, 2015, at 10:44 AM, Dave Olean <k1...@metrocast.net> wrote:

no young ones to replace them 


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[Elecraft] On VHF & UHF radios

2015-09-16 Thread Bob McGraw - K4TAX

I don't view there are many serious VHF and UHF operators today, i.e. 
sufficient to warrant a high performance radio.  Most are repeater 
users.  Seems that a $39 radio model has been proven to be satisfactory 
to most.


The SAT users do require some unique applications to cross band, split 
frequency and address Doppler shift.  The Tropo users need big antennas 
and lots of power and the EME group even more so.  Oh yes, the digital 
modes make things less complex but still, big antennas, good receivers 
and clean transmitters is still mandatory.


I don't find the current breed of "do it all" radios to have outstanding 
performance on VHF and UHF.


73
Bob, K4TAX
K3S s/n 10,163

On 9/16/2015 6:35 AM, ae...@carolinaheli.com wrote:

I still believe it may be possible with the K3S, KRX3 and transceivers to do 
Full cross band duplex. I'll look more closely after my rig is built and on the 
air. Makes for an expensive stand alone UHF/VHF rig tho unless you want HF too. 
But then it's probably overkill just to work SATs. I'll bet with the correct 
transverter we could hear the mars rovers tho.

Jerry Moore
AE4PB, K3S SN# ARRIVES TODAY!!!


-Original Message-
From: Andy McMullin [mailto:a...@rickham.net]
Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2015 7:22 AM
To: Jerry Moore
Cc: Jim Lowman; elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft SP3 External Speaker details

I’d be interested in that spec too!

Built-in soundcard for digital modes (with one USB connection for it and rig 
control) would be nice as well.

Regards
Andy, G8TQH



On 16 Sep 2015, at 12:06, Jerry Moore  wrote:

If they did a stand alone UHF/VHF I'd suggest it have dual receivers,
cross band tx/rx capability and VFO tracking based on Doppler built in
for SAT work.


[deletia]

My one request to Eric, last year at his presentation at Pacificon,
was for a standalone, all-mode transceiver for 2m and above.
My rationale was that, since Elecraft sells transverters for 2m, 220
MHz and
432 MHz, they already have the technology to make this possible.
It came down to the fact that there may not be a large enough market
for such a transceiver.  Makes sense.

73 de Jim - AD6CW




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Re: [Elecraft] On VHF & UHF radios

2015-09-16 Thread Bob McGraw - K4TAX

I'm using external transverters for 2M, 70cm and 23cm, those being 
DownEast Microwave, driving a IPA to the PA.  Yes, I think working EME 
is considered as weak signal work.  Plus I use a mast mounted preamps 
with separate TX and RX lines.  Makes for switching and sequencing to be 
less complex.


73
Bob, K4TAX
K3S s/n 10,163

On 9/16/2015 6:52 PM, Jim Lowman wrote:

That could be, Bob.

I should have phrased my question more specifically.
My intended use for such a transceiver would be weak-signal work.

I had the 2m option for the K3 but, with its low power output, I sold 
it and bought a Kenwood TS-2000X to be dedicated to VHF/UHF operation.
However, this type of operation demands high power (at least 100w) and 
an antenna with high gain, so I would have to buy an external 
amplifier at any rate.

Thus, I might re-think the 2m option from Elecraft.
It's a bonus that The K3(S) can handle up to nine transverters.

At a convention way back in 2001, I became interested in working the 
satellites and bought a Yaesu FT-847.
The interest waned eventually, so I sold the 847 toward the purchase 
of the TS-2000X.


And no, I don't plan to use the TS-2000X on HF; not when I have a K3 
and a K3S.


73 de Jim - AD6CW





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Re: [Elecraft] On VHF & UHF radios

2015-09-16 Thread Jim Lowman


That could be, Bob.

I should have phrased my question more specifically.
My intended use for such a transceiver would be weak-signal work.

I had the 2m option for the K3 but, with its low power output, I sold it 
and bought a Kenwood TS-2000X to be dedicated to VHF/UHF operation.
However, this type of operation demands high power (at least 100w) and 
an antenna with high gain, so I would have to buy an external amplifier 
at any rate.

Thus, I might re-think the 2m option from Elecraft.
It's a bonus that The K3(S) can handle up to nine transverters.

At a convention way back in 2001, I became interested in working the 
satellites and bought a Yaesu FT-847.
The interest waned eventually, so I sold the 847 toward the purchase of 
the TS-2000X.


And no, I don't plan to use the TS-2000X on HF; not when I have a K3 and 
a K3S.


73 de Jim - AD6CW

On 9/16/2015 5:03 AM, Bob McGraw - K4TAX wrote:
I don't view there are many serious VHF and UHF operators today, i.e. 
sufficient to warrant a high performance radio.  Most are repeater 
users.  Seems that a $39 radio model has been proven to be 
satisfactory to most.


The SAT users do require some unique applications to cross band, split 
frequency and address Doppler shift.  The Tropo users need big 
antennas and lots of power and the EME group even more so.  Oh yes, 
the digital modes make things less complex but still, big antennas, 
good receivers and clean transmitters is still mandatory.


I don't find the current breed of "do it all" radios to have 
outstanding performance on VHF and UHF.


73
Bob, K4TAX
K3S s/n 10,163



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Re: [Elecraft] On VHF & UHF radios

2015-09-16 Thread Jim Brown


On Wed,9/16/2015 4:52 PM, Jim Lowman wrote:
I had the 2m option for the K3 but, with its low power output, I sold 
it and bought a Kenwood TS-2000X to be dedicated to VHF/UHF operation. 


That was a bad move. Check the specs on the TS2000X. The K3 has has far 
better RX specs, and is probably cleaner on TX.


All you need to add to a K3 with 2M transverter is a suitable power amp. 
Look for a vintage ('70s-'80s) Mirage or RF Concepts brick that drives 
to about 150W with 2W or 10W drive. A year or so ago, I found two of 
each just by asking on the reflectors of a couple of local ham clubs. I 
kept one of each and gave the others to a friend.


I really appreciate the K3 RX while working weak signal CW and digital 
modes on VHF. I'm using a vintage Elecraft 2M transverter that I bought 
more than 10 years ago.


73, Jim K9YC
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[Elecraft] On VHF & UHF radios

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