Re: [Elecraft] Organic Rosin Core Solder
"envoromentally friendly solvent" you obvoiusly haven't seen the facts at http://www.dhmo.org/ :- ) >> I ask this in all seriousness; and with no disrespect. But am I >> missing something here? Why would folks use this stuff if it's such a >> pain in the butt? > > I believe that it's normally used with automated soldering equipment, > and the boards are washed in a hot water bath after soldering. I > presume (I'm sure Lyle or someone knows for sure) that the advantage is > that the flux can be removed without using environmentally dangerous > solvents. That's correct. Water is an environmentally friendly solvent (at least for now :-) It does an excellent job of cleaning the surfaces to be soldered. It cleans well (as long as you do it quickly!), so joints can be inspected. It is (or was) not considered hazardous. It acts like soap - you get suds as you wash/scrub the board. It is not recommended for kit building because of the dangers of corrosion. In automated work,the boards are exposed to the flux, then a wave of molten solder, over a period of some few to tens of seconds. It is then rinsed thoroughly. The organic cored solder was probably intended mostly for touch-up and rework. 73, Lyle KK7P ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
[Elecraft] Organic Rosin Core Solder
Hi, the following are some thoughts that may explain and perhaps help. Looks like what is being referred to is "water soluble flux." It's primary use is in the mass production of PC boards on commercial wave soldering machines. Discrete components are first either manually place/inserted or pick and placed by computer controlled equipment. Next the boards are placed on a conveyor type arrangement that passes the board over a rolling (wave) bath of water soluble flux. This coats the entire bottom of the board. Next the board passes over a rolling (wave) of molten solder which actually solders the entire board in a few seconds. As the boards are passed thru the system a giant heating system immediate above the board preheats it to facilitate solder flow. After the board cools for a few short minutes it goes into the equivalent of a commercial dish washer that washes the water soluable flux from the board. Those boards being used for critical applications frequently get two washings. Hand soldered boards are usually put thru an elaborate "degreaser" process. Yes, water soluble flux will cause numerous conduction paths throughout the board and some corrosion as mentioned. (I can tell you a horror story about improperly washed boards in critical medical equipment.) High ambient atmospheric moisture can cause recurrence of conduction mixed with a slight elevation in ambient heating greatly exacerbates the problem. Simply desoldering and resoldering each component will not correct the problem. The flux must be completely removed. Proceed at your own risk, but as suggested earlier thorough washing with warm water with lots of scrubbing would be my thought. I'm note sure how water resistant all the components on the Elecraft boards are. Most resistors, dipped capacitors and IC's should be okay. But, again not guarantee. A major part of choosing components for commercial PC boards that are to be wave soldered is considering their reaction to wave soldering including repeated washing. Perhaps this has been a bit of help. Good Luck Jim, AB0UK K2 SN 4787 __ Yahoo! Mail Mobile Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your mobile phone. http://mobile.yahoo.com/learn/mail ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Organic Rosin Core Solder
A water soulable flux would be absolutely a disaster in this humid place! You';d wind up with leakage paths you'd NEVER be able to trace out! I hear the Europeans in places have banned solder with lead! I think electronics people and bullet casters will have to have a special permit or license to possess lead before long! (If the environmental whackos have their way! The anti-gun folks will jump on this bandwagon too, be assured!) 73, Sandy W5TVW - Original Message - From: "Don Brown" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Elecraft Reflector" Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2005 6:34 PM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Organic Rosin Core Solder | Hi | | This sounds like water soluble flux. This stuff needs to be cleaned off as | soon as possible or it will cause corrosion. Normally is is cleaned in | distilled water in a special washing machine. I would suggest placing your | circuit boards in the dishwasher and run it through the normal cycle. | Alcohol, acetone or other petroleum based cleaners will not work on this | flux it is designed to be cleaned with water. This stuff is difficult to use | without the proper techniques. Use the recommended rosin core flux and | cleaning is a non issue. | | Don Brown | | KD5NDB | | | - Original Message - | From: "W0YG, Charlie Summers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> | To: "Elecraft Reflector" | Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2005 5:38 PM | Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Organic Rosin Core Solder | | | > John: | > | > Sorry to hear of your problem when your project went along so well. Gary | > recommended to me to use Acetone to clean off solder resin. You might try | > that to see if it cuts the apparent tarnish. | > | > Sounds like you might have to redo every solder joint on the RF board | > after | > removing as much of the offending solder as possible. | > | > 73, | > | > Charlie, W0YG..>> | > | > ___ | > Elecraft mailing list | > Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net | > You must be a subscriber to post to the list. | > Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): | > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft | > | > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm | > Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com | > | ___ | Elecraft mailing list | Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net | You must be a subscriber to post to the list. | Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): | http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft | | Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm | Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com | ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Organic Rosin Core Solder
I ask this in all seriousness; and with no disrespect. But am I missing something here? Why would folks use this stuff if it's such a pain in the butt? I believe that it's normally used with automated soldering equipment, and the boards are washed in a hot water bath after soldering. I presume (I'm sure Lyle or someone knows for sure) that the advantage is that the flux can be removed without using environmentally dangerous solvents. That's correct. Water is an environmentally friendly solvent (at least for now :-) It does an excellent job of cleaning the surfaces to be soldered. It cleans well (as long as you do it quickly!), so joints can be inspected. It is (or was) not considered hazardous. It acts like soap - you get suds as you wash/scrub the board. It is not recommended for kit building because of the dangers of corrosion. In automated work,the boards are exposed to the flux, then a wave of molten solder, over a period of some few to tens of seconds. It is then rinsed thoroughly. The organic cored solder was probably intended mostly for touch-up and rework. 73, Lyle KK7P ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Organic Rosin Core Solder
Hi This sounds like water soluble flux. This stuff needs to be cleaned off as soon as possible or it will cause corrosion. Normally is is cleaned in distilled water in a special washing machine. I would suggest placing your circuit boards in the dishwasher and run it through the normal cycle. Alcohol, acetone or other petroleum based cleaners will not work on this flux it is designed to be cleaned with water. This stuff is difficult to use without the proper techniques. Use the recommended rosin core flux and cleaning is a non issue. Don Brown KD5NDB - Original Message - From: "W0YG, Charlie Summers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Elecraft Reflector" Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2005 5:38 PM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Organic Rosin Core Solder > John: > > Sorry to hear of your problem when your project went along so well. Gary > recommended to me to use Acetone to clean off solder resin. You might try > that to see if it cuts the apparent tarnish. > > Sounds like you might have to redo every solder joint on the RF board > after > removing as much of the offending solder as possible. > > 73, > > Charlie, W0YG..>> > > ___ > Elecraft mailing list > Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > You must be a subscriber to post to the list. > Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm > Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com > ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Organic Rosin Core Solder
Larry Makoski W2LJ wrote: I ask this in all seriousness; and with no disrespect. But am I missing something here? Why would folks use this stuff if it's such a pain in the butt? I believe that it's normally used with automated soldering equipment, and the boards are washed in a hot water bath after soldering. I presume (I'm sure Lyle or someone knows for sure) that the advantage is that the flux can be removed without using environmentally dangerous solvents. -- 73, Vic, K2VCO Fresno CA http://www.qsl.net/k2vco ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Organic Rosin Core Solder
Lyle: As a matter of interest, what are the possible advantages of such a solder that would warrant such special, unusual, and awkward attention? thanks, dave, w1euy On May 14, 2005, at 6:26 PM, Lyle Johnson wrote: First of all, you are correct, it is corrosion. I have used plenty of Kester Organic Core Solder, Flux 331. I still use it a lot. The rules I follow are: 1) note the time the first solder joint is made. 2) not more than 1 hour later I take the work in progress to the sink and run lots of hot water over it. Sometimes I use an old toothbrush to be sure things are scrubbed clean. My friend who builds spacecraft flight boards uses a 30-minute timer rather than 1 hour. 3) I then dry the board and continue building, restarting the clock at step (1) with the next solder connection. *** I have had some luck cleaning up neglected, starting-to-corrode solder joints by resoldering them with yet more flux and then thoroughly rinsing with hot (tap) water. Alcohol doesn't work with this stuff, you need warm-to-hot water. This may not work, but the grainy gray-green corrosion will only get worse with time, so the additional risk is slight. /* lawyer speak on Naturally, the risk is yours and I am not advocating anything here! This is not advice. It is only an indication of what I might do, not what you should do. /*lawyer speak off A final point: never use this type of flux when soldering stranded wire. It will wick up into the wire, you cannot clean it, and the wire joint will corrode and fail. Probably on Field Day... Enjoy! Lyle KK7P PS - this is *not* an endorsement or even a suggestion to use water soluble flux!!! LJ ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Organic Rosin Core Solder
Lyle, I ask this in all seriousness; and with no disrespect. But am I missing something here? Why would folks use this stuff if it's such a pain in the butt? 73 de Larry W2LJ ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
RE: [Elecraft] Organic Rosin Core Solder
You piqued my curiosity John. Since I'm still using spools of Kester solder that I bought many, many years ago I haven't kept current with the latest stuff. Looking at their web site (www.kester.com) I see they have a non-rosin "organic" flux that apparently is designed for electronics (so it won't be acid!). I can see why they'd feature it being water-soluble if it isn't rosin. However, that stuff should not cause corrosion! They have a variety of "electronic" solder products, some rosin core and some not. And, of course, they make non-electronic solders that probably do have acid flux. I'd suggest contacting their Hq by phone or e-mail. They have contact info on the web site, and give them the spool info you have and ask them what's going on. I agree with Don's suggestions. If you approach it nicely but firmly that quite obviously something is very wrong with that solder and they discover it is a mis-marked roll or some other fault of theirs, you might get a new K2 out of them in the bargain. At the very least you can get some good info about how to stabilize it. Ron AC7AC -Original Message- From: John Bonk [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2005 2:42 PM To: 'Ron D'Eau Claire'; Elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: RE: [Elecraft] Organic Rosin Core Solder Ron, I'll try to find the page I reference, but it definitely said water-soluble. I can see the residue on the board, and the DMM shows a path across the "gunk". The corrosion seems to be returning also; only 16 hours after the last brushing. John ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Organic Rosin Core Solder
John: Sorry to hear of your problem when your project went along so well. Gary recommended to me to use Acetone to clean off solder resin. You might try that to see if it cuts the apparent tarnish. Sounds like you might have to redo every solder joint on the RF board after removing as much of the offending solder as possible. 73, Charlie, W0YG..>> ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Organic Rosin Core Solder
First of all, you are correct, it is corrosion. I have used plenty of Kester Organic Core Solder, Flux 331. I still use it a lot. The rules I follow are: 1) note the time the first solder joint is made. 2) not more than 1 hour later I take the work in progress to the sink and run lots of hot water over it. Sometimes I use an old toothbrush to be sure things are scrubbed clean. My friend who builds spacecraft flight boards uses a 30-minute timer rather than 1 hour. 3) I then dry the board and continue building, restarting the clock at step (1) with the next solder connection. *** I have had some luck cleaning up neglected, starting-to-corrode solder joints by resoldering them with yet more flux and then thoroughly rinsing with hot (tap) water. Alcohol doesn't work with this stuff, you need warm-to-hot water. This may not work, but the grainy gray-green corrosion will only get worse with time, so the additional risk is slight. /* lawyer speak on Naturally, the risk is yours and I am not advocating anything here! This is not advice. It is only an indication of what I might do, not what you should do. /*lawyer speak off A final point: never use this type of flux when soldering stranded wire. It will wick up into the wire, you cannot clean it, and the wire joint will corrode and fail. Probably on Field Day... Enjoy! Lyle KK7P PS - this is *not* an endorsement or even a suggestion to use water soluble flux!!! LJ ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Organic Rosin Core Solder
Folks; It would seem to me to not be from rosin or resin core solder; if it is corrosion, it sounds more like acid core solder; perhaps it was mislabeled. The term organic unfortunately is frequently misused; all hydrocarbons are organic right? Water soluble? I assume the flux, as in wash after soldering? Flux is typically to form a layer that on the surface that inhibits the immediate corrosion (due to the higher temperature of the melted solder) and help it wick to the untinned surface you are trying to solder to I think. 73 de W5SV, Dave Jim W7RY wrote: I would think you could use a good solder sucker and suck all the bad solder off the board. Then re-do all joints with the correct solder. Are you sure it's really corrosion? Seems odd that the solder would corrode. Solder is for soldering brass, silver, copper, tin and etc... Why would it corrode the elements that it's designed to work with? What is the stated purpose for water soluble flux in led/tin solder? ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Organic Rosin Core Solder
John, Sorry to hear about these problems. Are you sure it's corrosion? This doesn't seem likely in the short amount of time. Can you actually see the copper being "eaten" away? What you might be seeing is some kind of residue. Al. - Original Message - From: "John Bonk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "'Ron D'Eau Claire'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2005 4:42 PM Subject: RE: [Elecraft] Organic Rosin Core Solder > Ron, > > I'll try to find the page I reference, but it definitely said water-soluble. > I can see the residue on the board, and the DMM shows a path across the > "gunk". The corrosion seems to be returning also; only 16 hours after the > last brushing. > > John > > -Original Message- > From: Ron D'Eau Claire [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2005 2:05 PM > To: 'John Bonk'; Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > Subject: RE: [Elecraft] Organic Rosin Core Solder > > Wow Joe!!! > > Rosin is extracted from tree sap - Pine trees mostly. It's "organic" and > water soluble by definition. The "water soluble" doesn't refer to the > solder, only the rosin. > > Something else happened to your K2 besides using an "organic" core solder. > > Maybe accidentally using an acid flux instead of rosin would do that. > Perhaps a mis-marked roll of solder? > > I've never gotten acid flux anywhere near a PC board, or any other > electronics for that matter, but my impression was that the damage it does > takes months, at least. > > Ron AC7AC > > -Original Message- > Just a friendly warning to those who may not know the exact origin of their > solder. I used a Kester solder that was labeled "organic rosin core" on my > K2 (only 75% of the RF board) while I was waiting for a re-supply order to > come in. > > Fast forward one week: > > Minus one sloppy joint, my K2 fired up and was putting out the expected > power during part three of alignment. Big whoop of satisfaction follows. > Completed kit build with no issues.yet. > > Fast forward two weeks: > > Turned on the K2 to do some listening, upon hitting the tune button, I see > the High Current warning. After pulling apart the K2 again, I notice that > 75% of the solder joints on the RF board seem to be suffering from some sort > of corrosion. Attempted to clean small portion with alcohol, very little > luck..showing strange resistance values across the board. > > Three hours later: > > After two and a half hours of pulling my hair out, I decided to do another > check of the solder to make SURE that I didn't make a mistake. A bit of > digging turned up the ORGANIC=WATER SOLUBLE. The values I'm seeing and the > corrosion of the RF board support this finding. > > The first attempt was a q-tip and water. Second attempt was distilled water > and a toothbrush to help the process. Neither has proved helpful and I'm > still showing strange resistance values from the collector to ground on Q6, > 7 and 8, high current warning on keying. Voltage checks show within specs > for RF board during receive. > > So now I sit with a defunct K2, any suggestions for what I can try before I > order K2-Part Deux would be appreciated. > > Lessons learned: Throw away all unknown solder before you start. Don't use > organic core solder. > > John > > KD7ZYR > > ___ > Elecraft mailing list > Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > You must be a subscriber to post to the list. > Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm > Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com > ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
RE: [Elecraft] Organic Rosin Core Solder
It's possible that it's not corrosion at allcould be the just the leftovers drying up. It's not showing up like that on the PCB thoughyou have to catch it in the light just right. -John -Original Message- From: Jim W7RY [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2005 2:07 PM To: John Bonk; Elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Organic Rosin Core Solder I would think you could use a good solder sucker and suck all the bad solder off the board. Then re-do all joints with the correct solder. Are you sure it's really corrosion? Seems odd that the solder would corrode. Solder is for soldering brass, silver, copper, tin and etc... Why would it corrode the elements that it's designed to work with? What is the stated purpose for water soluble flux in led/tin solder? Interesting discussion.. 73 Jim W7RY K2 4914 At 01:56 PM 5/14/2005, John Bonk wrote: >Just a friendly warning to those who may not know the exact origin of their >solder. I used a Kester solder that was labeled "organic rosin core" on my >K2 (only 75% of the RF board) while I was waiting for a re-supply order to >come in. > > > >Fast forward one week: > > > >Minus one sloppy joint, my K2 fired up and was putting out the expected >power during part three of alignment. Big whoop of satisfaction follows. >Completed kit build with no issues.yet. > > > >Fast forward two weeks: > > > >Turned on the K2 to do some listening, upon hitting the tune button, I see >the High Current warning. After pulling apart the K2 again, I notice that >75% of the solder joints on the RF board seem to be suffering from some sort >of corrosion. Attempted to clean small portion with alcohol, very little >luck..showing strange resistance values across the board. > > > >Three hours later: > > > >After two and a half hours of pulling my hair out, I decided to do another >check of the solder to make SURE that I didn't make a mistake. A bit of >digging turned up the ORGANIC=WATER SOLUBLE. The values I'm seeing and the >corrosion of the RF board support this finding. > > > >The first attempt was a q-tip and water. Second attempt was distilled water >and a toothbrush to help the process. Neither has proved helpful and I'm >still showing strange resistance values from the collector to ground on Q6, >7 and 8, high current warning on keying. Voltage checks show within specs >for RF board during receive. > > > >So now I sit with a defunct K2, any suggestions for what I can try before I >order K2-Part Deux would be appreciated. > > > >Lessons learned: Throw away all unknown solder before you start. Don't use >organic core solder. > > > >John > >KD7ZYR > >___ >Elecraft mailing list >Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net >You must be a subscriber to post to the list. >Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > >Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm >Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
RE: [Elecraft] Organic Rosin Core Solder
Ron, I'll try to find the page I reference, but it definitely said water-soluble. I can see the residue on the board, and the DMM shows a path across the "gunk". The corrosion seems to be returning also; only 16 hours after the last brushing. John -Original Message- From: Ron D'Eau Claire [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2005 2:05 PM To: 'John Bonk'; Elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: RE: [Elecraft] Organic Rosin Core Solder Wow Joe!!! Rosin is extracted from tree sap - Pine trees mostly. It's "organic" and water soluble by definition. The "water soluble" doesn't refer to the solder, only the rosin. Something else happened to your K2 besides using an "organic" core solder. Maybe accidentally using an acid flux instead of rosin would do that. Perhaps a mis-marked roll of solder? I've never gotten acid flux anywhere near a PC board, or any other electronics for that matter, but my impression was that the damage it does takes months, at least. Ron AC7AC -Original Message- Just a friendly warning to those who may not know the exact origin of their solder. I used a Kester solder that was labeled "organic rosin core" on my K2 (only 75% of the RF board) while I was waiting for a re-supply order to come in. Fast forward one week: Minus one sloppy joint, my K2 fired up and was putting out the expected power during part three of alignment. Big whoop of satisfaction follows. Completed kit build with no issues.yet. Fast forward two weeks: Turned on the K2 to do some listening, upon hitting the tune button, I see the High Current warning. After pulling apart the K2 again, I notice that 75% of the solder joints on the RF board seem to be suffering from some sort of corrosion. Attempted to clean small portion with alcohol, very little luck..showing strange resistance values across the board. Three hours later: After two and a half hours of pulling my hair out, I decided to do another check of the solder to make SURE that I didn't make a mistake. A bit of digging turned up the ORGANIC=WATER SOLUBLE. The values I'm seeing and the corrosion of the RF board support this finding. The first attempt was a q-tip and water. Second attempt was distilled water and a toothbrush to help the process. Neither has proved helpful and I'm still showing strange resistance values from the collector to ground on Q6, 7 and 8, high current warning on keying. Voltage checks show within specs for RF board during receive. So now I sit with a defunct K2, any suggestions for what I can try before I order K2-Part Deux would be appreciated. Lessons learned: Throw away all unknown solder before you start. Don't use organic core solder. John KD7ZYR ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
RE: [Elecraft] Organic Rosin Core Solder
John, I am so sorry to hear of your incident - I don't know how successful you would be, it will depend on the extent of the corrosion spread, but a scrub with a fine wire brush and alcohol mmight take the remaining corrosive stuff away, but there still is a chance that there will always be some residual, so I would follow the scrubbing with de-soldering every joint and resoldering. Maybe time to invest in a Hakko de-soldering gun. It certainly is a lot of work, and yes these extreme measures could cause some damage, but it sounds like right now it is already damaged and even though you might break something in the process, you have little to lose and a chance to gain everything. I would try approaching the Tech Support folks at Kester, and provide them with any coding information that you can find on the solder and perhaps they could suggest a proper solvent that will not harm the relays and inductors. If the solder is to blame, and it was mis-marked as rosin core (organic or not), I might be moved to suggest to them that they buy a new K2 - but the 'fine print' probably limits their liability to replacement of the solder roll, but who knows what they will do if you ask the right party. 73, Don W3FPR > -Original Message- > > Just a friendly warning to those who may not know the exact > origin of their > solder. I used a Kester solder that was labeled "organic rosin > core" on my > K2 (only 75% of the RF board) while I was waiting for a re-supply order to > come in. > > > > Fast forward one week: > > > > Minus one sloppy joint, my K2 fired up and was putting out the expected > power during part three of alignment. Big whoop of satisfaction follows. > Completed kit build with no issues.yet. > > > > Fast forward two weeks: > > > > Turned on the K2 to do some listening, upon hitting the tune button, I see > the High Current warning. After pulling apart the K2 again, I notice that > 75% of the solder joints on the RF board seem to be suffering > from some sort > of corrosion. Attempted to clean small portion with alcohol, very little > luck..showing strange resistance values across the board. > > > > Three hours later: > > > > After two and a half hours of pulling my hair out, I decided to do another > check of the solder to make SURE that I didn't make a mistake. A bit of > digging turned up the ORGANIC=WATER SOLUBLE. The values I'm > seeing and the > corrosion of the RF board support this finding. > > > > The first attempt was a q-tip and water. Second attempt was > distilled water > and a toothbrush to help the process. Neither has proved helpful and I'm > still showing strange resistance values from the collector to > ground on Q6, > 7 and 8, high current warning on keying. Voltage checks show within specs > for RF board during receive. > > > > So now I sit with a defunct K2, any suggestions for what I can > try before I > order K2-Part Deux would be appreciated. > > > > Lessons learned: Throw away all unknown solder before you start. > Don't use > organic core solder. > > > > John > > KD7ZYR > > ___ > Elecraft mailing list > Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > You must be a subscriber to post to the list. > Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm > Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.11.10 - Release Date: 5/13/2005 > -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.11.10 - Release Date: 5/13/2005 ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Organic Rosin Core Solder
I would think you could use a good solder sucker and suck all the bad solder off the board. Then re-do all joints with the correct solder. Are you sure it's really corrosion? Seems odd that the solder would corrode. Solder is for soldering brass, silver, copper, tin and etc... Why would it corrode the elements that it's designed to work with? What is the stated purpose for water soluble flux in led/tin solder? Interesting discussion.. 73 Jim W7RY K2 4914 At 01:56 PM 5/14/2005, John Bonk wrote: Just a friendly warning to those who may not know the exact origin of their solder. I used a Kester solder that was labeled "organic rosin core" on my K2 (only 75% of the RF board) while I was waiting for a re-supply order to come in. Fast forward one week: Minus one sloppy joint, my K2 fired up and was putting out the expected power during part three of alignment. Big whoop of satisfaction follows. Completed kit build with no issues.yet. Fast forward two weeks: Turned on the K2 to do some listening, upon hitting the tune button, I see the High Current warning. After pulling apart the K2 again, I notice that 75% of the solder joints on the RF board seem to be suffering from some sort of corrosion. Attempted to clean small portion with alcohol, very little luck..showing strange resistance values across the board. Three hours later: After two and a half hours of pulling my hair out, I decided to do another check of the solder to make SURE that I didn't make a mistake. A bit of digging turned up the ORGANIC=WATER SOLUBLE. The values I'm seeing and the corrosion of the RF board support this finding. The first attempt was a q-tip and water. Second attempt was distilled water and a toothbrush to help the process. Neither has proved helpful and I'm still showing strange resistance values from the collector to ground on Q6, 7 and 8, high current warning on keying. Voltage checks show within specs for RF board during receive. So now I sit with a defunct K2, any suggestions for what I can try before I order K2-Part Deux would be appreciated. Lessons learned: Throw away all unknown solder before you start. Don't use organic core solder. John KD7ZYR ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
RE: [Elecraft] Organic Rosin Core Solder
Wow Joe!!! Rosin is extracted from tree sap - Pine trees mostly. It's "organic" and water soluble by definition. The "water soluble" doesn't refer to the solder, only the rosin. Something else happened to your K2 besides using an "organic" core solder. Maybe accidentally using an acid flux instead of rosin would do that. Perhaps a mis-marked roll of solder? I've never gotten acid flux anywhere near a PC board, or any other electronics for that matter, but my impression was that the damage it does takes months, at least. Ron AC7AC -Original Message- Just a friendly warning to those who may not know the exact origin of their solder. I used a Kester solder that was labeled "organic rosin core" on my K2 (only 75% of the RF board) while I was waiting for a re-supply order to come in. Fast forward one week: Minus one sloppy joint, my K2 fired up and was putting out the expected power during part three of alignment. Big whoop of satisfaction follows. Completed kit build with no issues.yet. Fast forward two weeks: Turned on the K2 to do some listening, upon hitting the tune button, I see the High Current warning. After pulling apart the K2 again, I notice that 75% of the solder joints on the RF board seem to be suffering from some sort of corrosion. Attempted to clean small portion with alcohol, very little luck..showing strange resistance values across the board. Three hours later: After two and a half hours of pulling my hair out, I decided to do another check of the solder to make SURE that I didn't make a mistake. A bit of digging turned up the ORGANIC=WATER SOLUBLE. The values I'm seeing and the corrosion of the RF board support this finding. The first attempt was a q-tip and water. Second attempt was distilled water and a toothbrush to help the process. Neither has proved helpful and I'm still showing strange resistance values from the collector to ground on Q6, 7 and 8, high current warning on keying. Voltage checks show within specs for RF board during receive. So now I sit with a defunct K2, any suggestions for what I can try before I order K2-Part Deux would be appreciated. Lessons learned: Throw away all unknown solder before you start. Don't use organic core solder. John KD7ZYR ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
[Elecraft] Organic Rosin Core Solder
Just a friendly warning to those who may not know the exact origin of their solder. I used a Kester solder that was labeled "organic rosin core" on my K2 (only 75% of the RF board) while I was waiting for a re-supply order to come in. Fast forward one week: Minus one sloppy joint, my K2 fired up and was putting out the expected power during part three of alignment. Big whoop of satisfaction follows. Completed kit build with no issues.yet. Fast forward two weeks: Turned on the K2 to do some listening, upon hitting the tune button, I see the High Current warning. After pulling apart the K2 again, I notice that 75% of the solder joints on the RF board seem to be suffering from some sort of corrosion. Attempted to clean small portion with alcohol, very little luck..showing strange resistance values across the board. Three hours later: After two and a half hours of pulling my hair out, I decided to do another check of the solder to make SURE that I didn't make a mistake. A bit of digging turned up the ORGANIC=WATER SOLUBLE. The values I'm seeing and the corrosion of the RF board support this finding. The first attempt was a q-tip and water. Second attempt was distilled water and a toothbrush to help the process. Neither has proved helpful and I'm still showing strange resistance values from the collector to ground on Q6, 7 and 8, high current warning on keying. Voltage checks show within specs for RF board during receive. So now I sit with a defunct K2, any suggestions for what I can try before I order K2-Part Deux would be appreciated. Lessons learned: Throw away all unknown solder before you start. Don't use organic core solder. John KD7ZYR ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
