[Elecraft] USB mouse support for P3SVGA -- please don't neglect the scroll wheel

[Stefan von Baltz, DL1IAO]

N6TV writes:

> When Elecraft adds mouse support to the P3SVGA, please use the scroll wheel
> for fine tuning after the click, as one does on an SDR.  You're can almost
> never tune in someone perfectly just by clicking, and you shouldn’t need
> two hands to tune in a station, one on the VFO knob, and one on the mouse.

> Like the P3 VFO „markers," all a mouse needs to support is *horizontal
> movement* of a single vertical line when you move the mouse, not a fancy
> mouse pointer that goes up and down.  A vertical line is sufficient.  We
> only need to click on signals on the waterfall, not „buttons" or "menus".

Thanks for the reminder, I forgot to mention this. Yes, no mouse pointer is 
necessary.

> I understand that modern Icom radios (IC-7610, IC-7851) already support
> click-to-tune on their waterfall displays using a USB mouse or touch-screen
> tap, but they ignore the scroll wheel completely, making them much less
> useful.  Elecraft can and should do better.

Yes, we used two IC-7851s at WRTC and the scope worked as you described. 
Besides you could use a right-click on the mouse to listen on a frequency and 
return to your CQ-frequency upon releasing the button. Yes, the fine-tune 
functionality is missing at ICOM. During practical operation one hand was 
controlling the mouse and the other hand the main-VFO for fine-tuning. Room for 
improvements!

> If Elecraft needs to „monetize" this to make it happen, *I would gladly pay
> $50 for a P3 firmware upgrade that provides P3SVGA mouse support.*

I would be willing to pay for it as well.

While playing with my P3 with SVGA-option for a while, now, I realize that I 
sometimes would prefer a slightly faster waterfall speed. On the other hand I 
never use the scope display above the waterfall. So maybe some CPU power could 
be rearranged to optimize the waterfall.

Thanks everybody for a good P3 discussion!


73,

Stefan DL1IAO, SA3CWW/SM9A


--
Stefan v. Baltz
dl1...@contesting.com
http://www.dl1iao.com





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Re: [Elecraft] USB mouse support for P3SVGA -- please don't neglect the scroll wheel

[Bob Wilson, N6TV]

On Sat, Jul 28, 2018 at 9:05 AM, Joe Subich, W4TV  wrote:

> Since the P3IQ will apparently use the USB ("keyboard") hole on
> the P3 rear panel, one would hope the hardware also includes the
> necessary support for an external USB hub that would support both
> P3IQ (external sound card functionality) and USB mouse support.
>

I think Elecraft has said that the hardware behind the USB connector
provided by the P3SVGA board is not capable of handling a USB hub or
equivalent.  It's one device at a time:  mouse (some day I hope), keyboard,
or memory stick.

Although I have never bought into the need for P3SVGA, it would
> seem that hardware will also need to be upgraded to support an
> external hub and P3IQ/Mouse/Keyboard functionality (and perhaps
> the ability to save a screen grab to a thumb drive on the hub
> as well).
>

That sure would be nice; but I think new hardware would be required,
something that is not possible with software alone.

73,
Bob, N6TV
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Re: [Elecraft] USB mouse support for P3SVGA -- please don't neglect the scroll wheel

[Bob Wilson, N6TV]

John,

I'd like to keep this thread on topic:  mouse support integrated into the
P3SVGA hardware.

Remote users can already do what you're requesting using a video capture
card connected to the P3SVGA, Win4K3suite, and TeamViewer or equivalent:

See this thread:

http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/SVGA-capture-td7636918.html

Remote P3 performance may be questionable (too slow for spectrum display
probably).

For those of us who need to keep the mouse pointer focused on our contest
loggers, clicking on another PC window is not ideal (logger loses focus).
Despite workaround hacks, I'd still prefer the separate standalone P3SVGA +
mouse hardware.

Yes, some loggers like N1MM+ have integrated it all in one window if you
have an SDR, but for various reasons I prefer a different contest logger
(Win-Test).

For years I've used a Perseus SDR + HDSDR + OmniRig + Win-Test to get
click-to-tune support on one display, but my logger loses focus when I
click on the waterfall, so I'd really prefer a separate mouse and display.

See my short presentation "Adding a Software Defined Radio (SDR) to an SO2R
station", the very last link on the bottom of  my QRZ.COM page
, for screen shots of the current
click-to-tune technique that works with any supported SDR + K3.

73,
Bob, N6TV

On Sat, Jul 28, 2018 at 9:04 AM, John K9UWA 
wrote:

> Clay think about those of us who operate our stations remotely. My arm
> isn't
> long enough to reach the knobs on the K3 or the P3 or any of the other
> pieces of equipment in my station. I spend my winters in Florida. Station
> is in
> Indiana. We need total operation via mouse and keyboard. And the ability
> to
> size each window as needed. Think about Monitor Real Estate for the
> various programs running on the RadioComputer.
> John k9uwa
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Re: [Elecraft] USB mouse support for P3SVGA -- please don't neglect the scroll wheel

[Joe Subich, W4TV]

Since the P3IQ will apparently use the USB ("keyboard") hole on
the P3 rear panel, one would hope the hardware also includes the
necessary support for an external USB hub that would support both
P3IQ (external sound card functionality) and USB mouse support.

Although I have never bought into the need for P3SVGA, it would
seem that hardware will also need to be upgraded to support an
external hub and P3IQ/Mouse/Keyboard functionality (and perhaps
the ability to save a screen grab to a thumb drive on the hub
as well).

73,

   ... Joe, W4TV


On 2018-07-28 10:01 AM, Bob Wilson, N6TV wrote:

When Elecraft adds mouse support to the P3SVGA, please use the scroll wheel
for fine tuning after the click, as one does on an SDR.  You're can almost
never tune in someone perfectly just by clicking, and you shouldn't need
two hands to tune in a station, one on the VFO knob, and one on the mouse.

A mouse driver for the P3SVGA could be very simplified.  It does NOT have
to work like a mouse on a PC.

Like the P3 VFO "markers," all a mouse needs to support is *horizontal
movement* of a single vertical line when you move the mouse, not a fancy
mouse pointer that goes up and down.  A vertical line is sufficient.  We
only need to click on signals on the waterfall, not "buttons" or "menus".

This is what I'm expecting to see from the P3SVGA mouse support:

Left click:Move VFO A to clicked freq.
Right click:   Move VFO B to clicked freq. (for DX split pileups)
Scroll Wheel:  Fine tune VFO A, B, or "last-clicked" (user option)

Scroll Wheel Up = move VFO up in frequency

Scroll Wheel Down = move VFO down in frequency


I understand that modern Icom radios (IC-7610, IC-7851) already support
click-to-tune on their waterfall displays using a USB mouse or touch-screen
tap, but they ignore the scroll wheel completely, making them much less
useful.  Elecraft can and should do better.

If Elecraft needs to "monetize" this to make it happen, *I would gladly pay
$50 for a P3 firmware upgrade that provides P3SVGA mouse support.*

Next best would be *P3SVGA K-POD support*, K-POD connected to P3SVGA via
USB, used instead of the tiny P3 knob and awkward knob push, but maybe
that's not feasible due to hardware limitations.

73,
Bob, N6TV
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Re: [Elecraft] USB mouse support for P3SVGA -- please don't neglect the scroll wheel

[John K9UWA]

Clay think about those of us who operate our stations remotely. My arm isn't 
long enough to reach the knobs on the K3 or the P3 or any of the other 
pieces of equipment in my station. I spend my winters in Florida. Station is in 
Indiana. We need total operation via mouse and keyboard. And the ability to 
size each window as needed. Think about Monitor Real Estate for the 
various programs running on the RadioComputer.
John k9uwa

> I'm guessing there is more to it than a firmware upgrade to make this 
> type of functional add-on.
> 
> But I 100% agree with the below spec'd mouse functionality Anything 
> more would be great  anything less, and while I would still likely 
> acquire it, I would be less than fully satisfied.
> 
> I am in the process of putting together an alternative Panadapter 
> solution to give me this functionality.
> 
> I would PREFER to stay with just the P3 as augmented...
> 
> I would happily pay a good deal more than $50.00 for this 
> functionality  $200 +/- a c-note depending on overall functional 
> add-ons.  I will be spending this much at least for a separate 
> panadapter box and audio interface anyway...
> 
> IF it could be figured out how to route the P3 info back into the PC 
> somehow to grab this functionality while not sacrificing the P3's 
> excellent integration with the K3, that would be great. The idea 
> being, I would really like to be able to use the monitor I currently 
> have dedicated to the P3 in multi-use  some way to switch it between 
> a second PC display and the panadapter function.
> 
> 73,
> 
> __
> Clay Autery, KY5G
> (318) 518-1389
> 
> On 28-Jul-18 09:01, Bob Wilson, N6TV wrote:
> > When Elecraft adds mouse support to the P3SVGA, please use the scroll wheel
> > for fine tuning after the click, as one does on an SDR.  You're can almost
> > never tune in someone perfectly just by clicking, and you shouldn't need two
> > hands to tune in a station, one on the VFO knob, and one on the mouse.
> >
> > A mouse driver for the P3SVGA could be very simplified.  It does NOT have to
> > work like a mouse on a PC.
> >
> > Like the P3 VFO "markers," all a mouse needs to support is *horizontal
> > movement* of a single vertical line when you move the mouse, not a fancy
> > mouse pointer that goes up and down.  A vertical line is sufficient.  We
> > only need to click on signals on the waterfall, not "buttons" or "menus".
> >
> > This is what I'm expecting to see from the P3SVGA mouse support:
> >
> > Left click:Move VFO A to clicked freq.
> > Right click:   Move VFO B to clicked freq. (for DX split pileups)
> > Scroll Wheel:  Fine tune VFO A, B, or "last-clicked" (user option)
> >
> > Scroll Wheel Up = move VFO up in frequency
> >
> > Scroll Wheel Down = move VFO down in frequency
> >
> >
> > I understand that modern Icom radios (IC-7610, IC-7851) already support
> > click-to-tune on their waterfall displays using a USB mouse or touch-screen
> > tap, but they ignore the scroll wheel completely, making them much less
> > useful.  Elecraft can and should do better.
> >
> > If Elecraft needs to "monetize" this to make it happen, *I would gladly pay
> > $50 for a P3 firmware upgrade that provides P3SVGA mouse support.*
> >
> > Next best would be *P3SVGA K-POD support*, K-POD connected to P3SVGA via
> > USB, used instead of the tiny P3 knob and awkward knob push, but maybe
> > that's not feasible due to hardware limitations.
> >
> > 73,
> > Bob, N6TV
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] USB mouse support for P3SVGA -- please don't neglect the scroll wheel

[Clay Autery]

I'm guessing there is more to it than a firmware upgrade to make this 
type of functional add-on.


But I 100% agree with the below spec'd mouse functionality Anything 
more would be great  anything less, and while I would still likely 
acquire it, I would be less than fully satisfied.


I am in the process of putting together an alternative Panadapter 
solution to give me this functionality.


I would PREFER to stay with just the P3 as augmented...

I would happily pay a good deal more than $50.00 for this 
functionality  $200 +/- a c-note depending on overall functional 
add-ons.  I will be spending this much at least for a separate 
panadapter box and audio interface anyway...


IF it could be figured out how to route the P3 info back into the PC 
somehow to grab this functionality while not sacrificing the P3's 
excellent integration with the K3, that would be great. The idea 
being, I would really like to be able to use the monitor I currently 
have dedicated to the P3 in multi-use  some way to switch it between 
a second PC display and the panadapter function.


73,

__
Clay Autery, KY5G
(318) 518-1389

On 28-Jul-18 09:01, Bob Wilson, N6TV wrote:

When Elecraft adds mouse support to the P3SVGA, please use the scroll wheel
for fine tuning after the click, as one does on an SDR.  You're can almost
never tune in someone perfectly just by clicking, and you shouldn't need
two hands to tune in a station, one on the VFO knob, and one on the mouse.

A mouse driver for the P3SVGA could be very simplified.  It does NOT have
to work like a mouse on a PC.

Like the P3 VFO "markers," all a mouse needs to support is *horizontal
movement* of a single vertical line when you move the mouse, not a fancy
mouse pointer that goes up and down.  A vertical line is sufficient.  We
only need to click on signals on the waterfall, not "buttons" or "menus".

This is what I'm expecting to see from the P3SVGA mouse support:

Left click:Move VFO A to clicked freq.
Right click:   Move VFO B to clicked freq. (for DX split pileups)
Scroll Wheel:  Fine tune VFO A, B, or "last-clicked" (user option)

Scroll Wheel Up = move VFO up in frequency

Scroll Wheel Down = move VFO down in frequency


I understand that modern Icom radios (IC-7610, IC-7851) already support
click-to-tune on their waterfall displays using a USB mouse or touch-screen
tap, but they ignore the scroll wheel completely, making them much less
useful.  Elecraft can and should do better.

If Elecraft needs to "monetize" this to make it happen, *I would gladly pay
$50 for a P3 firmware upgrade that provides P3SVGA mouse support.*

Next best would be *P3SVGA K-POD support*, K-POD connected to P3SVGA via
USB, used instead of the tiny P3 knob and awkward knob push, but maybe
that's not feasible due to hardware limitations.

73,
Bob, N6TV


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Re: [Elecraft] USB mouse support for P3SVGA -- please don't neglect the scroll wheel

[Dave Fugleberg]

Bob, I know this isn't exactly what you describe, but it's a hack I thought
I'd mention.

I like the P3 for Search & Pounce in RTTY contests, but it's very tiresome
to use the QSY knob on the P3.

Rather than using the P3 marker/QSY function, I found I could get similar
results by using VFO B, A/B, and A>B on the K3, but that's tiring as well.

So, I gutted out an old optical mouse except for the switches and scroll
wheel/encoder, and stuffed an Arduino Nano inside.

The Nano's USB port is plugged into the computer and assigned to one of the
virtual ports of Win4K3, so it looks like a serial CAT device to the P3/K3.

The Arduino's code has two states: Hunt and Devour.

The Right button puts it in Hunt mode, where the scroll wheel adjusts VFO
B. I scroll VFO B to the next RTTY signal on the band while working one on
VFOA.

When my QSO is done, a click of the wheel puts it in Devour mode. This
executes A/B, then A>B, so both VFO are now on the new frequency. In this
mode, the scroll wheel controls VFO A for fine tuning to zero in and devour
the prey.

Once I start that QSO, I click the right button to enter Hunt mode, and the
cycle repeats.

I call this gadget the RTTY Kitty, or the CAT-n-Mouse.

Of course, general purpose mouse support on the P3 would be much more
versatile, but this works pretty well for the specific purpose I had in
mind, and it was fun to do.

I suspect something similar could be done with a KPod, but I don't have
one, and dead optical mice are plentiful.

73 de W0ZF

On Sat, Jul 28, 2018 at 9:01 AM, Bob Wilson, N6TV  wrote:

> When Elecraft adds mouse support to the P3SVGA, please use the scroll wheel
> for fine tuning after the click, as one does on an SDR.  You're can almost
> never tune in someone perfectly just by clicking, and you shouldn't need
> two hands to tune in a station, one on the VFO knob, and one on the mouse.
>
> A mouse driver for the P3SVGA could be very simplified.  It does NOT have
> to work like a mouse on a PC.
>
> Like the P3 VFO "markers," all a mouse needs to support is *horizontal
> movement* of a single vertical line when you move the mouse, not a fancy
> mouse pointer that goes up and down.  A vertical line is sufficient.  We
> only need to click on signals on the waterfall, not "buttons" or "menus".
>
> This is what I'm expecting to see from the P3SVGA mouse support:
>
> Left click:Move VFO A to clicked freq.
> Right click:   Move VFO B to clicked freq. (for DX split pileups)
> Scroll Wheel:  Fine tune VFO A, B, or "last-clicked" (user option)
>
> Scroll Wheel Up = move VFO up in frequency
>
> Scroll Wheel Down = move VFO down in frequency
>
>
> I understand that modern Icom radios (IC-7610, IC-7851) already support
> click-to-tune on their waterfall displays using a USB mouse or touch-screen
> tap, but they ignore the scroll wheel completely, making them much less
> useful.  Elecraft can and should do better.
>
> If Elecraft needs to "monetize" this to make it happen, *I would gladly pay
> $50 for a P3 firmware upgrade that provides P3SVGA mouse support.*
>
> Next best would be *P3SVGA K-POD support*, K-POD connected to P3SVGA via
> USB, used instead of the tiny P3 knob and awkward knob push, but maybe
> that's not feasible due to hardware limitations.
>
> 73,
> Bob, N6TV
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[Elecraft] USB mouse support for P3SVGA -- please don't neglect the scroll wheel

[Bob Wilson, N6TV]

When Elecraft adds mouse support to the P3SVGA, please use the scroll wheel
for fine tuning after the click, as one does on an SDR.  You're can almost
never tune in someone perfectly just by clicking, and you shouldn't need
two hands to tune in a station, one on the VFO knob, and one on the mouse.

A mouse driver for the P3SVGA could be very simplified.  It does NOT have
to work like a mouse on a PC.

Like the P3 VFO "markers," all a mouse needs to support is *horizontal
movement* of a single vertical line when you move the mouse, not a fancy
mouse pointer that goes up and down.  A vertical line is sufficient.  We
only need to click on signals on the waterfall, not "buttons" or "menus".

This is what I'm expecting to see from the P3SVGA mouse support:

Left click:Move VFO A to clicked freq.
Right click:   Move VFO B to clicked freq. (for DX split pileups)
Scroll Wheel:  Fine tune VFO A, B, or "last-clicked" (user option)

Scroll Wheel Up = move VFO up in frequency

Scroll Wheel Down = move VFO down in frequency


I understand that modern Icom radios (IC-7610, IC-7851) already support
click-to-tune on their waterfall displays using a USB mouse or touch-screen
tap, but they ignore the scroll wheel completely, making them much less
useful.  Elecraft can and should do better.

If Elecraft needs to "monetize" this to make it happen, *I would gladly pay
$50 for a P3 firmware upgrade that provides P3SVGA mouse support.*

Next best would be *P3SVGA K-POD support*, K-POD connected to P3SVGA via
USB, used instead of the tiny P3 knob and awkward knob push, but maybe
that's not feasible due to hardware limitations.

73,
Bob, N6TV
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