Re: [Elecraft] Zero Beat WWV
A variation on #1 is to start watching the S meter when you get really close, with AGC set to fast. The response on the K2 seems to be quick enough that you can see if futter when you get with 10Hz and decide which is closest. If you are lucky it won't flutter and will slowly ramp up and down, all at the difference frequency. 73, Leigh/WA5ZNU On Thu, 5 Jul 2007 5:54 pm, Don Wilhelm wrote: Joe, Let me see if I can help. First I usually think of 'tuning WWV' rather than 'zero-beating' just to keep my mind straight - I leave the Zero Beat term reserved for CW use when you want to tune the desired signal to match your sidetone pitch. Tune WWV in using LSB or USB because the K2 does not add an offset for LSB and USB. There are 3 ways of doing it: 1) Tune the carrier to an audio frequency of zero (which you cannot really hear, but go as low as you can) and refine it by tuning until the voice announcements sound 'natural'. ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
[Elecraft] Zero Beat WWV
Ok, totally confused by the zero beat to WWV. I can zero beat an un-oscillated WWV carrier at two points, in USS and LSB. When they add the odd-hour 600hz tone, things become even more confusing. I suppose I am relagated to obtaining a spectrum analyser, but which mode should I use to zero beat when I do so? USB, LSB or CW? Killing me here... KQ4FW - Joe ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Zero Beat WWV
Joe, Let me see if I can help. First I usually think of 'tuning WWV' rather than 'zero-beating' just to keep my mind straight - I leave the Zero Beat term reserved for CW use when you want to tune the desired signal to match your sidetone pitch. Tune WWV in using LSB or USB because the K2 does not add an offset for LSB and USB. There are 3 ways of doing it: 1) Tune the carrier to an audio frequency of zero (which you cannot really hear, but go as low as you can) and refine it by tuning until the voice announcements sound 'natural'. 2) Understand the sequence of tones transmitted by WWV - for the most part they alternate between 500 and 600 Hz on alternate minutes (there is also a 440 Hz tone transmitted one minute of each hour). Set your sidetone pitch to either 500 or 600 Hz and use the SPOT on the K2 to match the transmitted tone at the correct minute. Or 3) My preferred method is to use Spectrogram (yes, this is an audio 'spectrum analyzer') and feed the K2 audio into the computer soundcard input - with Spectrogram set up properly, you will be able to see the transmitted tones on the Spectrogram display, set a marker in Spectrogram to 500 Hz and another to 600 Hz and watch the display to be certain the tones alternate between those two markers - when they do, you are accurately tuned to WWV. I find this is the easiest method for folks like me who have trouble discerning the pitch of a tone - if you are a musician and have 'perfect pitch' you will not likely need such a visual aid. You can download the last freeware version of Spectrogram from Tom Hammond's website www.n0ss.net. If you need some information on how to set up Spectrogram, read over the K2 dial calibration article on my website http://w3fpr.qrpradio.com - the latter part of that article (CAL PLL) has information and links to setting up Spectrogram. 73, Don W3FPR joey mcg wrote: Ok, totally confused by the zero beat to WWV. I can zero beat an un-oscillated WWV carrier at two points, in USS and LSB. When they add the odd-hour 600hz tone, things become even more confusing. I suppose I am relagated to obtaining a spectrum analyser, but which mode should I use to zero beat when I do so? USB, LSB or CW? Killing me here... KQ4FW - Joe ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Zero Beat WWV
They turn off the tone modulation every hour for a bit. See their schedule for time of this. That is the time you do your most accurate zero beating, and in CW mode of your receiver. Stuart K5KVH ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Zero Beat WWV
At 05:25 PM 7/5/2007, joey mcg wrote... Ok, totally confused by the zero beat to WWV. I can zero beat an un-oscillated WWV carrier at two points, in USS and LSB. When they add the odd-hour 600hz tone, things become even more confusing. Bounce back and forth between LSB and USB (hold down CW RV for a second to quickly switch), adjusting the frequency until the tones WWV transmits sound the same in both modes. ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
[Elecraft] Zero beat WWV
I have setup Spectogram, and have 500 600 Hz markers setup. I then set the K2 to 1.00, in U mode, and adjust the frequency until I have either 500 or 600 Hz depending on which minute it is (odd minutes being a 600 Hz tone and even being a 500 Hz tone, even though this seems backwards of how it should be). I then used this zero beat reference, and the procedure on page 101 of the K2 manual so that I have it down to U or L mode is zero beat at .99. I notice the calibration on page 101 of the K2 manual says to use U or L mode. My question, is how much should the offset be when I go to CW mode? I am trying to track down why my CW RX frequency is so far from my USB frequency (was 1500 Hz off at one point). I have it better, but I am sure the issue is with how I did the alignments. -- David Wilburn [EMAIL PROTECTED] K4DGW K2 #5982 ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Zero beat WWV
Dave, If you have WWV properly tuned at .99 (when in SSB mode), that is only 10 Hz off frequency, and is well within the range of error to be expected with the K2. The digital quantizing error is about 20 Hz. The K2 always displays the frequency of the carrier - so when tuned properly to WWV, you will hear (or see on Spectrogram) the tones demodulated (as you have done), but when switching to CW, you should hear the carrier at the pitch you have set for the sidetone. When listening to WWV in CW mode it is easy to mistake one of the tones they transmit for the carrier. At the times they transmit a 600 Hz tone, you will be able to hear discrete signals at .40, 10,000.00 and 10,000.60 since it is an AM signal transmitting a 600 Hz tone. (You can hear one signal at the carrier minus the transmitted tone pitch, the carrier itself, and another signal at the carrier plus the tone pitch.) If the CW filter is narrow enough, you will hear each of these signals as separate signals in the receiver - you must be careful to identify the actual carrier. Using the wrong one will create a large apparent error in your dial readout. It is best to tune WWV during the minutes they do not transmit a tone - tune the carrier to your sidetone pitch and the dial should read correctly. Just adjust the CW BFOs so the passband is centered at your chosen sidetone pitch (using a noise input, NOT a single signal) - and set the dial calibration in LSB or USB, then believe that the K2 will take care of the offset for you. On CW, the dial readout will be the carrier frequency of the station you are listening to and will also be the frequency you will transmit on. 73, Don W3FPR David Wilburn wrote: I have setup Spectogram, and have 500 600 Hz markers setup. I then set the K2 to 1.00, in U mode, and adjust the frequency until I have either 500 or 600 Hz depending on which minute it is (odd minutes being a 600 Hz tone and even being a 500 Hz tone, even though this seems backwards of how it should be). I then used this zero beat reference, and the procedure on page 101 of the K2 manual so that I have it down to U or L mode is zero beat at .99. I notice the calibration on page 101 of the K2 manual says to use U or L mode. My question, is how much should the offset be when I go to CW mode? I am trying to track down why my CW RX frequency is so far from my USB frequency (was 1500 Hz off at one point). I have it better, but I am sure the issue is with how I did the alignments. ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Zero beat WWV
Good stuff Don. Thanks. Yea, the .99, I was not worried about at all. It is the 1300 Hz I have to wander over to, to get the CW signal that is bothering me. I am experiencing the same thing with local signals, I have generated from other radios. I will check out WWV during the quiet time and see what I find. As far as Just adjust the CW BFOs so the passband is centered..., what are you telling me to do here? I have run through c22 adjustment (started out at 1.09 for WWV, and got to .99 using the Wayne method), CAL PLL and CAL FIL (with Spectrogram) at least 3 times. Should I go back and do the BFO test? Admittedly, it is possible, even likely, that I am making the same mistake each time I have run them. I have seen the U and L frequency readout get better, but not the CW. Additionally, it transmits on the correct frequency. David Wilburn [EMAIL PROTECTED] K4DGW K2 #5982 Don Wilhelm wrote: Dave, If you have WWV properly tuned at .99 (when in SSB mode), that is only 10 Hz off frequency, and is well within the range of error to be expected with the K2. The digital quantizing error is about 20 Hz. The K2 always displays the frequency of the carrier - so when tuned properly to WWV, you will hear (or see on Spectrogram) the tones demodulated (as you have done), but when switching to CW, you should hear the carrier at the pitch you have set for the sidetone. When listening to WWV in CW mode it is easy to mistake one of the tones they transmit for the carrier. At the times they transmit a 600 Hz tone, you will be able to hear discrete signals at .40, 10,000.00 and 10,000.60 since it is an AM signal transmitting a 600 Hz tone. (You can hear one signal at the carrier minus the transmitted tone pitch, the carrier itself, and another signal at the carrier plus the tone pitch.) If the CW filter is narrow enough, you will hear each of these signals as separate signals in the receiver - you must be careful to identify the actual carrier. Using the wrong one will create a large apparent error in your dial readout. It is best to tune WWV during the minutes they do not transmit a tone - tune the carrier to your sidetone pitch and the dial should read correctly. Just adjust the CW BFOs so the passband is centered at your chosen sidetone pitch (using a noise input, NOT a single signal) - and set the dial calibration in LSB or USB, then believe that the K2 will take care of the offset for you. On CW, the dial readout will be the carrier frequency of the station you are listening to and will also be the frequency you will transmit on. 73, Don W3FPR David Wilburn wrote: I have setup Spectogram, and have 500 600 Hz markers setup. I then set the K2 to 1.00, in U mode, and adjust the frequency until I have either 500 or 600 Hz depending on which minute it is (odd minutes being a 600 Hz tone and even being a 500 Hz tone, even though this seems backwards of how it should be). I then used this zero beat reference, and the procedure on page 101 of the K2 manual so that I have it down to U or L mode is zero beat at .99. I notice the calibration on page 101 of the K2 manual says to use U or L mode. My question, is how much should the offset be when I go to CW mode? I am trying to track down why my CW RX frequency is so far from my USB frequency (was 1500 Hz off at one point). I have it better, but I am sure the issue is with how I did the alignments. ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Zero beat WWV
Dave, Maybe now I understand where your problem is - I suggest you proceed as follows: First, adjust the filters so the passbands for all the filters you will use are positioned properly. Use Spectrogram and a noise input to the K2 to see where the passbands are positioned. This is the initial adjustment of the filters - you are looking only to position the passband at this point. Then adjust the 4 MHz oscillator (C22) accurately. Do that as follows: 1) Tune in WWV correctly in LSB or USB mode (ignore the dial reading) 2) Enter CAL FCTR and alternate the counter probe between TP1 and TP2 - if the low order digits are not the same, adust C22 until they are the same. Do not change C22 from that setting unless you start all over again. Put the probe into TP1, switch to 40 meters and run CAL PLL. When CAL PLL has finished, put the probe in TP2 and enter CAL FIL. There is no need to reposition the passbands since you have already done that, but you need to force the K2 to write new BFO values into the EEPROM - so proceed as follows: 1) Set the mode to LSB FL1 and tap the BAND- button. You should see FL1t nnn (where nnn is some number) in the display. 2) Note the number in the display and change it to the next number (up or down), then set it back to the original number. 3) Tap the XFIL button to move to LSB FL2 - change its number and change it back. 4) Tap XFIL again to move to FL3 and do the same thing - repeat for FL4 and then return to FL1. 5) Tap the MODE button to change to USB and repeat steps 2 thru 4 above. 6) do the same thing for CW, CWr, and if you have RTTY turned on, do the same for RTTY and RTTYr. When you have done those steps (in order) then exit the menu, switch to 10 MHz, tune WWV in LSB mode again to check your work - the frequency displayed should be within 20 Hz of 10,000.00 - if it is not, start over at the 4 MHz reference adjustment to refine that setting and follow through the steps again. If WWV does tune correctly in LSB mode, switch to CW mode and you should hear the WWV carrier appear at the audio frequency that you have set for the sidetone pitch. If that is true, your K2 is properly calibrated. The adjustment of C22 will do nothing during normal operation of the K2. The 4 MHz oscillator can drift all over the map and you will not notice any change. The K2 does not dynamically use the reference oscillator for frequency determination in normal operation. However, it does have to be accurate before doing the CAL PLL or the CAL FIL procedures, because it IS used during those procedures to determine the frequency of whichever point the probe is connected to - the resulting frequency values are then written into EEPROM and the EEPROM values are used afterward to determine the frequency readout. 73, Don W3FPR David Wilburn wrote: Good stuff Don. Thanks. Yea, the .99, I was not worried about at all. It is the 1300 Hz I have to wander over to, to get the CW signal that is bothering me. I am experiencing the same thing with local signals, I have generated from other radios. I will check out WWV during the quiet time and see what I find. As far as Just adjust the CW BFOs so the passband is centered..., what are you telling me to do here? I have run through c22 adjustment (started out at 1.09 for WWV, and got to .99 using the Wayne method), CAL PLL and CAL FIL (with Spectrogram) at least 3 times. Should I go back and do the BFO test? Admittedly, it is possible, even likely, that I am making the same mistake each time I have run them. I have seen the U and L frequency readout get better, but not the CW. Additionally, it transmits on the correct frequency. David Wilburn [EMAIL PROTECTED] K4DGW K2 #5982 ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
