Re: [Elecraft] K2 and FSK
Hello Sverre! I have read the postings on the problem of having to set the AF gain as bands are changed with FSK and PSK31 modes, and I seem to recall that I have seen a product that automates this... Does anyone have a clue or a web-pointer to what this is? PSK Meter, see http://www.ssiserver.com/info/pskmeter/ 73, Lyle KK7P ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] K2 and FSK
that's the PSKMeter .. I have one but I don't remember who I bought it from :) ... Google sez http://www.ssiserver.com/info/pskmeter/ de w1rt/John On 9/27/05, Sverre Holm [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have read the postings on the problem of having to set the AF gain as bands are changed with FSK and PSK31 modes, and I seem to recall that I have seen a product that automates this. I believe it was a hardware device that monitored the PSK31 output and adjusted the AF level for optimum distortion level. It was independent of the rig in use, and maybe it can be used for other digital modes like FSK also - or that the idea can be adapted to other modes? Does anyone have a clue or a web-pointer to what this is? 73 Sverre LA3ZA http://www.qslnet.de/la3za/ ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] K2 and FSK
Am 27. Sep 2005, um 09:43:12 schrieb Lyle Johnson: Hello Lyle, I have read the postings on the problem of having to set the AF gain as bands are changed with FSK and PSK31 modes, and I seem to recall that I have seen a product that automates this... PSK Meter, see http://www.ssiserver.com/info/pskmeter/ Then, there is IMD Meter at http://kk7uq.hfradio.org/index.htm Having one of these on my shopping list, but not yet decided which one I should go for, I'd be interested in first-hand reports, preferably from people who have tried both... 73s Mario -- Mario LorenzInternet:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Ham Radio: [EMAIL PROTECTED] I hear that if you play the NT 4.0 CD backwards, you get a Satanic message! That's nothing. If you play it forward, it installs NT 4.0! ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
RE: [Elecraft] K2 and FSK
-Original Message- that's the PSKMeter .. I have one but I don't remember who I bought it from :) ... Google sez http://www.ssiserver.com/info/pskmeter/ -- Yes, that's the one, I got several responses, the first after 12 minutes! For $39.35 the audio level is adjusted automatically as bands are changed. But only for PSK31, not for FSK as far as I can tell, but maybe with some other PC software it would work even for FSK? 73 Sverre LA3ZA http://www.qslnet.de/la3za/ ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] K2 and FSK
I wrote a Linux program for the PSKMeter, and AA6E re-wrote it with a nice GUI, and I now use his. KF6VSG's site has some presentations on what the firmware does, and what the PC software does, and I used those and some email exchanges with George to write the Linux version. The firmware does a number of voltage samples of its ADC which is across the RF line, and returns the raw values. The envelope values are all positive, so you look for a max, assume the min is the correct number of samples away and barrel-shift the data around and then look at that 1/4 wave to see if it seems to have the right cosine shape, as determined by a Fourier decomposition into the first 10 or so harmonics. (There is no need for an FFT because it is really just a single unit of data.) I heard that the firmware now does PSK63, and I suppose it just samples twice as fast. So, you can do anything that you can do with a very small nmber of envelope samples, all rectified to be positive. Leigh / WA5ZNU On Tue, 27 Sep 2005 1:14 pm, Sverre Holm wrote: -Original Message- that's the PSKMeter .. I have one but I don't remember who I bought it from :) ... Google sez http://www.ssiserver.com/info/pskmeter/ -- Yes, that's the one, I got several responses, the first after 12 minutes! For $39.35 the audio level is adjusted automatically as bands are changed. But only for PSK31, not for FSK as far as I can tell, but maybe with some other PC software it would work even for FSK? 73 Sverre LA3ZA http://www.qslnet.de/la3za/ ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] K2 and FSK (summary)
hi Aki - absolutely right - for contest situations, it is especially useful to not have to worry about readjusting the radio when changing bands. But even for casual operating, its nice to be able to set the mode and go, without having to make adjustments. This past weekend, I operated the CQWW RTTY contest at another operator's station. Since he was not a RTTY op, nor did he have SO2R capability, I hauled two FT1000Ds and a desktop computer to his QTH. I had wanted to operate high power, but after getting two monster rigs, keyboard, and monitor on his table, there was no way I was going to be able to deal effectively with his two non-auto-tune amps - so I went low power and did all right. But lugging those big radios was definitely non-optimal! Later, I was thinking about the perfect portable set up for the future... how cool would it be to have two K2/100s with peaked and tweaked data filters, plus a KPA800 or KPA1500 amp with its SO2R ability (and auto-tune and it can sit under the desk)? I have always hesitated to use the K2 in RTTY contesting because you cannot zero the RIT by computer command, and because of no FSK (and also because you have to use non-standard tones to get within the filter bandwidth capability - with practice, I have gotten pretty good at tuning to pitch.) The latest RTTY contesting software, with the ability to have multiple receive windows with different settings, has made it so that I hardly ever touch the RIT anymore. If we could get FSK, I would probably get past the tone issue... Looking at the schematics (RF sheet 1, left side), if I understand the circuit correctly, all it would take is injecting a voltage of the correct value and summing it with the thermistor voltage to create a 170Hz shift (shifting the 8B value to the thermistor might even be easier). What I don't know is: 1. How precise this voltage would need to be; 2. Whether the same voltage would work for all bands. Any insight on how baked this scheme is, before I start messing up my K2, will be very much appreciated! thanks - jeff wk6i ps: plan B: inject the two tones directly into the transmit audio. this sounds harder. At 11:24 PM 9/25/2005, a.yoshida wrote: I appreciate your interesting posts. As Ron says AFSK is as clean as FSK if AF in level is set properly. Last week end I enjoyed CQ WW RTTY contest with QRP K2 (5W) One of major problem was that AF in level must be re-adjusted each time when I change Band. This is not in the case of FSK. I believe FSK is much simpler at least in operation. I have same problem (re-adjusting AF in level) when I change mode (RTTY to PSK31 etc) This is why I posted this question on the list. I hope Elecraft plans something new in this area. -- Jeff Stai [EMAIL PROTECTED] Twisted Oak Winery http://www.twistedoak.com/ ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] K2 and FSK (summary)
On Mon, 2005-09-26 at 14:33 -0700, Jeff Stai wrote: you cannot zero the RIT by computer command Sure you can. Use the RC command. ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] K2 and FSK (summary)
At 02:45 PM 9/26/2005, Brian Mury wrote: On Mon, 2005-09-26 at 14:33 -0700, Jeff Stai wrote: you cannot zero the RIT by computer command Sure you can. Use the RC command. u - OK, so I downloaded the K2 programmers reference, which I have never looked at. If I understand correctly, that command typically applies if you are adjusting RIT under computer control using RU and RD. But, the K2 uses the last control action, so if I send an RC it will clear a pot command, but as soon as I touch the pot it will use the current pot position worst case is the next needed position for the RIT knob is on the other side of zero. It would feel like an unseen force turned the knob the wrong way before you turned it the right way - something I could probably get used to... thanks! - jeff wk6i -- Jeff Stai [EMAIL PROTECTED] Twisted Oak Winery http://www.twistedoak.com/ Rocketry Org. of CA http://www.rocstock.org/ Amateur Radio WK6I ~ Calaveras County, CA ~ WI6NE 40th Annual California QSO Party! ~ Oct 1-2, 2005 ~ http://www.cqp.org/ ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] K2 and FSK (summary)
On Mon, 2005-09-26 at 16:52 -0700, Jeff Stai wrote: But, the K2 uses the last control action, so if I send an RC it will clear a pot command, but as soon as I touch the pot it will use the current pot position worst case is the next needed position for the RIT knob is on the other side of zero. It would feel like an unseen force turned the knob the wrong way before you turned it the right way Correct. Until Elecraft adds a motor to physically turn the knob, that's how it'll work. :-) Hey, don't laugh, there are audio mixers with computer control that do that - kinda neat watching the sliders move by themselves. Of course, the other way to do it would be to use an encoder instead of a pot. - something I could probably get used to... You might find the white line on the knob to be of use - at least you can see where the RIT will jump to when you touch the knob. ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] K2 and FSK (summary)
At 05:25 PM 9/26/2005, Brian Mury wrote: - something I could probably get used to... You might find the white line on the knob to be of use - at least you can see where the RIT will jump to when you touch the knob. yeah, if I'm looking at the knob...! adding something tactile to the knob would help, I bet... now, back to FSK...?-) - jeff wk6i -- Jeff Stai [EMAIL PROTECTED] Twisted Oak Winery http://www.twistedoak.com/ Rocketry Org. of CA http://www.rocstock.org/ Amateur Radio WK6I ~ Calaveras County, CA ~ WI6NE 40th Annual California QSO Party! ~ Oct 1-2, 2005 ~ http://www.cqp.org/ ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
RE: [Elecraft] K2 and FSK
aki, ja1nlx, asked: Is there anyone who know articles or ideas about K2 FSK mod ? Most rigs today do not produce true FSK. That is, they don't shift the carrier frequency. Instead, they operate in Single Sideband mode and an external frequency shift keyer inputs changing audio tones into the mic connector. The RF output from the rig is then the suppressed carrier frequency + or - the audio tone, depending upon which sideband is in use. As long as the rig is set up properly with adequate sideband and carrier suppression, it's almost indistinguishable from true FSK. The tone generation is commonly done with a computer sound card, like many other digital modes today. Many hams have developed interfaces for use between their computers and their rigs. These interfaces are designed to provide the proper audio levels and to avoid ground loops that can cause hum or other problems in the system. Many have been published on the internet. Among them are S56AL's nice web pages at: http://lea.hamradio.si/~s57nan/ham_radio/ which features schematics of some interface units at: http://lea.hamradio.si/~s57nan/ham_radio/sb_intf/sb_intf.html These aren't specifically designed for use with the K2, but the basic principle is directly applicable to a K2 equipped with the KSB2 SSB board. Ron AC7AC ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
RE: [Elecraft] K2 and FSK
Hi Ron and others, As I very much like to do EME and MS on 144 MHz my RF-power there is higher than average to say the least hi! So as to reduce chances for LFD etc, I decided that I should use FSK CW. It had to be FSK without phasejumps, so SSB-FSK was found to be not suitable. At the time I decided this, there was no commercial product on the market (and today there still is not) so I had to build something myself. That way my current 2m transceiver was conceived and it is still in use. It now uses a DDS and by manipulating the DDS databus, It makes realtime FSK, virtually without phase-jumps. The neighbours only hear a slight click when I switch the TX on/off. Also since the introduction of WSJT, a convector (developed by PA3BIY) was taken in use, that converts the tones of WSJT to data for the DDS. I have a K2 in use as a secondary transceiver on 144 with the DEM 144-28 ECK built in. I also use this rig as IF for microwave, very recommended I must say! So if the K2 could ever make real FSK, I would be very pleased! But it would probably take a significant hardware modification and software development for just a small group of people, so I guess that the developers at Elecraft will probably think they have something better to do hi! Or?!... 73, Dick PA2DW K2/DEM 144-28ECK KX1 ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
RE: [Elecraft] K2 and FSK
Dick PA2DW wrote: ...if the K2 could ever make real FSK, I would be very pleased! But it would probably take a significant hardware modification and software development for just a small group of people, so I guess that the developers at Elecraft will probably think they have something better to do hi! Or?!... As I was answering Aki's question I was thinking that the K2 already does true FSK, but not at data keying rates. The PLL local oscillator and BFO frequencies are changed by the controller as needed to maintain the dial accuracy when the sidetone pitch is change in the MENU. I'm not sure about the phase issues, but it had me wondering if it were possible to provide an external keying input that would toggle between two sidetone frequencies during transmit in CW mode. Perhaps just a tuning input to the BFO would do the trick, since it's already a VCO and it is part of the transmit signal chain. However, maintaining phase while changing frequencies is a different story. For that, how about an external DDS with the necessary keying circuitry such as you described used as an external transmit BFO for the K2? Your observation about the relatively small number of users compared to the whole K2 population out there is exactly why Wayne and Eric had always encouraged experimentation with the Elecraft rigs, and even offer a helping hand when they can. Ron AC7AC ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
