Re: [Elecraft] New Elecraft rigs...

2007-09-07 Thread Simon Brown (HB9DRV)
Indeed - I have a K3 on order and would pay $1,000 more for a nice 19 big 
panel. Same as we have now, just bigger. Bigger buttons, bigger labels, nice 
4 tuning knob (like the FTDX-9000).


The age profile of Hams who can afford new radios must show that we're 
suffering from the age-related problems such as poor eyesight, less flexible 
fingers and easy confusion when presented with lots of small buttons (one 
reason why I like my TS-480SAT).


So - for me the K4 would be the K3 in a bigger box with maybe a nice big 
speaker and 10W audio amp. I don't need a panoramic display there - nice but 
not essential as I would plug a 19 monitor into the radio / panoramic 
display unit anyway.


An example of a nice clean layout in a big radio is the up-coming ICOM 
IC-7700, much better than the overloaded IC-7800 front panel as the IC-7700 
doesn't have to cope with dual receivers.


Bottom line I guess - I don't want to wear my reading glasses to use the K3. 
Got to find the glasses first which always takes 10 minutes.


Simon Brown, HB9DRV

- Original Message - 
From: Charles Harpole [EMAIL PROTECTED]




Face it, MOST operators like a large front panel.


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Re: [Elecraft] New Elecraft rigs...

2007-09-07 Thread Simon Brown (HB9DRV)
Elecraft did say the K3 was built to the size it is - and by the number of 
orders taken they obviously made the correct decision (I managed to hold out 
for 24 hours). The layout and usage will be great - but something like my 
old Drake TR-7 was simpler to use (just like the operator).


The Who summed it up in 1971: 'Meaty Beaty Big and Bouncy', just the way I 
want my radios :-)


Simon Brown, HB9DRV

- Original Message - 
From: Charles Harpole [EMAIL PROTECTED]





My IC-775dsp is a BIG rig and I love operating it, and it has NO menus but 
a knob for everything ideal for HAM RADIO, not commercial or whatever. 


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Re: [Elecraft] New Elecraft rigs...

2007-09-07 Thread Julian G4ILO
Perhaps the solution is to think outside the box. Literally.

I mean, there is no need for a bandscope to be part of the radio main
display, just because Icom does it that way. All that is needed is a
plug-in module that can be added with a coaxial socket on it, that can
be plugged in to an external display. You could even use a portable
LCD TV for the display, as some IC-7000 users do because the built in
one is too small.

For quick access to control functions something like a TV remote
control could be used. You would need an infra red module in the K3.
Perhaps an actual TV remote could be used to save costs. Some of these
are highly programmable with a touch screen. Or you could use
dedicated software on a PDA.

-- 
Julian, G4ILO K2 s/n: 392  K3 s/n: ???
G4ILO's Shack: www.g4ilo.com
Ham-Directory: www.ham-directory.com


On 9/7/07, Simon Brown (HB9DRV) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Elecraft did say the K3 was built to the size it is - and by the number of
 orders taken they obviously made the correct decision (I managed to hold out
 for 24 hours). The layout and usage will be great - but something like my
 old Drake TR-7 was simpler to use (just like the operator).

 The Who summed it up in 1971: 'Meaty Beaty Big and Bouncy', just the way I
 want my radios :-)

 Simon Brown, HB9DRV

 - Original Message -
 From: Charles Harpole [EMAIL PROTECTED]


 
  My IC-775dsp is a BIG rig and I love operating it, and it has NO menus but
  a knob for everything ideal for HAM RADIO, not commercial or whatever.

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Re: [Elecraft] New Elecraft rigs...

2007-09-07 Thread N2EY
In a message dated 9/6/07 2:30:46 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:


   don't know if people want it smaller, or they push 
 smaller stuff to the people, or if it's a young thing, or what.
 

1) Smaller is usually less expensive to make, to pack, and to ship. (Smaller 
usually also means lighter, too).

2) A small thing can be used in more places than a large one. Like mobile.

3) As homes tend not to have basements and usable attics, people have less 
space. Yet they also tend to have/want more stuff. If the stuff is smaller, 
they 
can have more of it.

4) The size of old things was often determined by the size of the parts 
inside, and how much heat they gave off. Look at an ARC-5 receiver or 
transmitter - 
it can't get much smaller. As parts have shrunk, so have front panels.

5) If people buy the smaller stuff, the mfrs. make it.

This isn't a new thing. Back in the 1960s, W9BRD's How's DX column carried 
a story about how the author was trying out a new rig loaned by a friend. Nice 
little modern transceiver (NCX-3?) but the shack Siamese cat, Madame Mu, 
didn't like it because she could not comfortably rest atop it. 

73 de Jim, N2EY 


**
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RE: [Elecraft] New Elecraft rigs...

2007-09-07 Thread Brett gazdzinski
If you ever used one of the 756 series rigs, you know
just how nice the display is, and its nice having it all in one box
and not having to move/carry a screen along if you move things.

You can put a lot of information on a screen like that, and icom
was smart enough to also use a real mechanical meter along with
the very nice display.
The band scope is a very nice feature, although you might not
think so till you use one, but its only part of the nice display.
You can turn it off and copy rtty, access all kinds of options, show
loads of very detailed info at the same time, etc.
Its not a big box, but it is quite heavy.

The 756 pro series is a very nice radio, except for its abysmal
performance on receive.
At about $1200.00 it's a good buy for a used rig if you don't
mind the wide front end...

Brett
N2DTS
 





 
 Perhaps the solution is to think outside the box. Literally.
 
 I mean, there is no need for a bandscope to be part of the radio main
 display, just because Icom does it that way. All that is needed is a
 plug-in module that can be added with a coaxial socket on it, that can
 be plugged in to an external display. You could even use a portable
 LCD TV for the display, as some IC-7000 users do because the built in
 one is too small.
 
 For quick access to control functions something like a TV remote
 control could be used. You would need an infra red module in the K3.
 Perhaps an actual TV remote could be used to save costs. Some of these
 are highly programmable with a touch screen. Or you could use
 dedicated software on a PDA.
 
 -- 
 Julian, G4ILO K2 s/n: 392  K3 s/n: ???
 G4ILO's Shack: www.g4ilo.com
 Ham-Directory: www.ham-directory.com
 

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Re: [Elecraft] New Elecraft rigs...

2007-09-07 Thread Julian G4ILO
Yep, I had one. I sold it soon after I got my K2. Never really missed it.

-- 
Julian, G4ILO K2 s/n: 392  K3 s/n: ???
G4ILO's Shack: www.g4ilo.com
Ham-Directory: www.ham-directory.com


On 9/7/07, Brett gazdzinski [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 If you ever used one of the 756 series rigs, you know
 just how nice the display is, and its nice having it all in one box
 and not having to move/carry a screen along if you move things.
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Re: [Elecraft] New Elecraft rigs...

2007-09-07 Thread Vic K2VCO

Simon Brown (HB9DRV) wrote:

Indeed - I have a K3 on order and would pay $1,000 more for a nice 19 
big panel. Same as we have now, just bigger. Bigger buttons, bigger 
labels, nice 4 tuning knob (like the FTDX-9000).


The age profile of Hams who can afford new radios must show that we're 
suffering from the age-related problems such as poor eyesight, less 
flexible fingers and easy confusion when presented with lots of small 
buttons (one reason why I like my TS-480SAT).


I have a K2, a TS850s and a beta version K3. I more or less got used to 
the K2, but I complained a lot about it being too small for my age.


My experience with the K3 is that it does not feel smaller than the 
TS850s (a 'normal size' radio), although it is. The number and layout of 
the controls seems right for the size of the panel. I don't feel cramped 
using it.


I have an HRO-5 which is 19 or so wide. It wouldn't fit on my desk with 
the other stuff, like the computer and monitor that I didn't have in 1956.

--
73,
Vic, K2VCO
Fresno CA
K3 no. 7 ('James', of course)
http://www.qsl.net/k2vco
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Re: [Elecraft] New Elecraft rigs...

2007-09-07 Thread J F
Matt,

I would like to see a SM Elecraft kit as well. Some of
the devices are pretty easy to work with, although
even some of them may be too big these days.

The AmQRP micro908 was my first SMD kit. I was worried
about being able to work with the small devices. But
after the first couple of components, it was actually
fun and easy.

Maybe not for everyone, but I don't think it is as
hard to do as folks fear. Requires some new tools and
a bit more patience, and GOOD magnifying visor/loop.

Cheers,
Julius
n2wn
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Re: [Elecraft] New Elecraft rigs...

2007-09-07 Thread Matt Palmer
It seems to me the old guys want things to get bigger, i want them
smaller, there is no reason with advances in technology and smaller
components that you cant fit a radio with the performance of the k2
(basic anyway) into an altoids tin, look at the AT-Sprint i think its
a great example of what can be done. If you want a better example i
spent the summer building and prototyping a power supply for military
radios, we shoved 350 watts with 9 outputs and red/black isolation
into a 3U conduction cooled compact pci card, which with the height
restriction that imposes i think was a pretty amazing feat. If i had
the free time to actually study the k2 and figure it out on the
level that don has it down, i wouldn't mind designing my own, but alas
i never have enough time to finish any of my dream projects, only to
start them and then to leave a bunch of parts and sketches in a box
somewhere.

Matt
KD8DAO

On 9/7/07, J F [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Matt,

 I would like to see a SM Elecraft kit as well. Some of
 the devices are pretty easy to work with, although
 even some of them may be too big these days.

 The AmQRP micro908 was my first SMD kit. I was worried
 about being able to work with the small devices. But
 after the first couple of components, it was actually
 fun and easy.

 Maybe not for everyone, but I don't think it is as
 hard to do as folks fear. Requires some new tools and
 a bit more patience, and GOOD magnifying visor/loop.

 Cheers,
 Julius
 n2wn

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RE: [Elecraft] New Elecraft rigs...

2007-09-06 Thread Brett gazdzinski
 So you want a revised K1, not a K4.
K3 performance in a K1 size box using surface mount.

That seems like a nitch radio, not a mainstream radio.

You need:

Backpack rig and/or handheld,
Small portable or field day rig,
Mobile rig (portable and field day also) designed with the car in mind..,
Base rig,
Deluxe base rig,
Computer rig,
Amplifier,
Remote (auto?) antenna tuners/antenna switch,
Kits and various power level versions of the above.

I don't know about vhf and uhf rigs...

The reason I would like a rig twice the size of the K3 is to get
a band scope and individual knobs for main features.
While Elecraft does wonders with limited controls, there is no
need for that on a big radio. 
I think they would sell many more bigger rigs to the general ham
population then they would sell revised K1's.

Brett
N2DTS


  



 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Matt Palmer
 Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2007 9:49 AM
 To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
 Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Optimized mic ?
 
 I would rather see them expanding into a surface mount miniaturized
 version of the k2 with improved performance for a k4.
 
 Matt KD8DAO
 
 On 9/6/07, Brett gazdzinski 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  I do wonder what Elecraft could come up with if
  size, weight, and power consumption were not an issue.
  It would likely be a rig I would really like, as there
  are plenty of small rigs out there.
 
  They don't need to go head to head with the major manufacturers
  if they don't want to, they can sell what they sell and how they
  want to sell it, and be as big or as little as they want.
 
  My guess is they want to sell zillions of K3's though, with all
  the jetting around to hamfests.
 
  If the K4 was twice the size of the K3, and had four times
  the knobs and buttons on it, and had the K3 performance, I bet they
  would sell even more of them then K3's, at a higher price.
 
  I don't see why Elecraft could not get very large in short order,
  as no one has the range and performance they do, kits, small rigs,
  top end performing rigs, medium size rigs, backpack rigs, 
 antenna tuners,
  amplifiers, and with the K4, big deluxe rigs.
 
  I hope they will expand and bring out more products faster, while
  reducing the individual workload so they don't burn out.
 
 
 
 
  Brett
  N2DTS
 
 
 
   -Original Message-
   From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of 
 Charles Harpole
   Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2007 11:50 AM
   To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
   Subject: [Elecraft] Optimized mic ?
  
   Much as I want to like the little company that could,
   Elecraft folks need to
   recognize that despite their existing rabidly pro customer
   base, they are
   now reaching another type of customer with the advanced 
 K3.  This new
   customer will be much less forgiving than the folks of the
   QRP and toy rigs
   niche who are clearly predisposed to love anything Elecraft.
  
   Me, I am a new type customer, not interested in QRP (I'm too
   old), back
   packing (same), and tiny rigs (same agn).  I assemble to save
   money, not
   much for the fun.  I like operating, not tinkering.  I
   purchase based on
   outstanding specs, not other marketing ploys.
  
   Message then to Elecraft, provided free here altho a
   marketing consultant
   would cost plenty, is to wake up to their new added 
 customer base and
   understand that forgiveness in
   timely notices of shipment
   advance manual availability
   clear specs on rig (that are stated in the same terms as good
   ole Sherwood
   and that do not have the  or the  mark)
   and clear info on the full range of products, such as the Heil K2
   mic/headphones,
   can be expected to be met with only a polite patience that
   can be exhausted
   soon.
  
   It is a new and exciting ...and challenging day for
   Elecraft.  They have
   entered the big leagues and clearly challenge ICOM and Yaesu
   (and ORION).
   Marketing info will need to measure up too.
  
   PS... keep my order for a K3 active, please.  73
  
   Charles Harpole,   HS0ZCW
   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  
   _
   Test your celebrity IQ. Play Red Carpet Reveal and earn
   great prizes!
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   mailtextlink2
  
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Re: [Elecraft] New Elecraft rigs...

2007-09-06 Thread Julian G4ILO
On 9/6/07, Brett gazdzinski [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 I think they would sell many more bigger rigs to the general ham
 population then they would sell revised K1's.

On what evidence do you base this assertion? I haven't done a survey,
but on the basis of the rigs people say they are using when I contact
them, I would say the small / medium size radios are in the majority.
A lot of people are even using mobile rigs (IC-706, IC-7000, FT-897
etc.) as their main radios. That may be more to do with pricing than
size, of course.
-- 
Julian, G4ILO K2 s/n: 392  K3 s/n: ???
G4ILO's Shack: www.g4ilo.com
Ham-Directory: www.ham-directory.com
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Re: [Elecraft] New Elecraft rigs...

2007-09-06 Thread JT Croteau
People today seem to want everything to be smaller (except for their
big screen TV's).  Everything is becoming smaller, not bigger.

-- 
JT Croteau, N1ESE - Manchester, NH
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Re: [Elecraft] New Elecraft rigs...

2007-09-06 Thread David Ferrington, M0XDF
And harder to use - I bought the K3 because I find accessing all functions
via a menu (on my FT-857) to be prohibitive.
I was looking at the FT-2000 and almost ready to buy and then there was this
announcement .


On 6/9/07 17:07, JT Croteau [EMAIL PROTECTED] sent:

 People today seem to want everything to be smaller (except for their
 big screen TV's).  Everything is becoming smaller, not bigger.

-- 
Mathematics is the language with which God has written the universe.
-Galileo Galilei, physicist and astronomer (1564-1642)



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RE: [Elecraft] New Elecraft rigs...

2007-09-06 Thread Brett gazdzinski
 
On the assumption that people wanting little radios
could get or already have a K1, K2, etc.
And from looking at ads in QST and the AES catalog,
the big rigs get the attention, along with anything 'new'.

Sure, there are loads of people who would like an
expensive radio, like me, but I don't have $10,000.00
to plunk down for the really good ones.
I got an icom 756 pro cheap used, while a poor performer
compared to the Elecraft rigs on RX, it was a slick
package with lots of features, knobs, buttons, great displays,
real S meter, auto antenna tuner, 6 meters, in a bigger box.
It even came with a microphone!


It seems to me like there are LOADS of guys that have to have the
latest and greatest, as well as plenty of people who will get
whatever they can for the lowest cost.

I don't think Elecraft could compete with really cheap rigs or 
used rigs, but they do real well with the great performing rigs.

From a business standpoint, you want a bigger box and more features
that dazzle, like the multi color band scope, lots of knobs, some gold 
trim highlights, and some heft to it.
That is what the usual suspects have been doing, add the Elecraft
high performance and it would sell like hotcakes!

Brett
N2DTS

 
 On 9/6/07, Brett gazdzinski 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  I think they would sell many more bigger rigs to the general ham
  population then they would sell revised K1's.
 
 On what evidence do you base this assertion? I haven't done a survey,
 but on the basis of the rigs people say they are using when I contact
 them, I would say the small / medium size radios are in the majority.
 A lot of people are even using mobile rigs (IC-706, IC-7000, FT-897
 etc.) as their main radios. That may be more to do with pricing than
 size, of course.
 -- 
 Julian, G4ILO K2 s/n: 392  K3 s/n: ???
 G4ILO's Shack: www.g4ilo.com
 Ham-Directory: www.ham-directory.com
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RE: [Elecraft] New Elecraft rigs...

2007-09-06 Thread Brett gazdzinski
I  don't know if people want it smaller, or they push 
smaller stuff to the people, or if it's a young thing, or what.
I do NOT want things smaller, my cell phone/camera is already so small
its very hard to use, look at aftermarket car radios, the buttons and
displays
are so small you have to stop and put your glasses on to read/change
anything, 
handhelds have gotten so small they cant fit enough buttons and have menus
and multi function things that make them almost imposable to use
or figure out.

I got a VX-7r I hate, as you cant use it without the (thick)
instruction book, you cant even hold it without things getting in the way,
and it gets REAL hot.

No thanks, I want things bigger.

Now if I was back packing, I would like it to be small
and light, for the rest of it, I want it big and easy to use.

But maybe I am odd, my transmitters are 6 foot tall


Brett
N2DTS


 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of JT Croteau
 Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2007 12:07 PM
 To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
 Subject: Re: [Elecraft] New Elecraft rigs...
 
 People today seem to want everything to be smaller (except for their
 big screen TV's).  Everything is becoming smaller, not bigger.
 
 -- 
 JT Croteau, N1ESE - Manchester, NH
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Re: [Elecraft] New Elecraft rigs...

2007-09-06 Thread Matt Palmer
I think we need to get with the times, i'm not saying a smaller box
for the k2, but i wouldnt mind seeing a surface mount version, which
would mean more space inside the box for user mods and tinkering, i
think with all the options installed everyone agrees the k2 is a tight
fit. And as much as everyone seems scared of smt, it seems to be the
same fear of toroids, there not that bad, theres nothing hard about
it, no magic spells to cast, it just takes a little practice, so the
sooner we get a kit radio we really really want, that requires us to
do a little surface mounting the sooner the ham community will  get
over itself


(this is the 20 year year olds perspective though)

Matt
KD8DAO

On 9/6/07, Brett gazdzinski [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 I  don't know if people want it smaller, or they push
 smaller stuff to the people, or if it's a young thing, or what.
 I do NOT want things smaller, my cell phone/camera is already so small
 its very hard to use, look at aftermarket car radios, the buttons and
 displays
 are so small you have to stop and put your glasses on to read/change
 anything,
 handhelds have gotten so small they cant fit enough buttons and have menus
 and multi function things that make them almost imposable to use
 or figure out.

 I got a VX-7r I hate, as you cant use it without the (thick)
 instruction book, you cant even hold it without things getting in the way,
 and it gets REAL hot.

 No thanks, I want things bigger.

 Now if I was back packing, I would like it to be small
 and light, for the rest of it, I want it big and easy to use.

 But maybe I am odd, my transmitters are 6 foot tall


 Brett
 N2DTS


  -Original Message-
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of JT Croteau
  Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2007 12:07 PM
  To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
  Subject: Re: [Elecraft] New Elecraft rigs...
 
  People today seem to want everything to be smaller (except for their
  big screen TV's).  Everything is becoming smaller, not bigger.
 
  --
  JT Croteau, N1ESE - Manchester, NH
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RE: [Elecraft] New Elecraft rigs...

2007-09-06 Thread Charles Harpole

Face it, MOST operators like a large front panel.



Charles Harpole
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

_
Gear up for Halo® 3 with free downloads and an exclusive offer. 
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Re: [Elecraft] New Elecraft rigs...

2007-09-06 Thread Don Wilhelm

Charles,

I cannot support that assumption, but then maybe I am not among the 
MOST operators.


Convenience for the most used functions is in order (and the K2 is 
sufficient in that regard, the K3 will be better), but having a knob for 
each and every function available on the radio is just not necessary in 
most operating environments IMHO.  The desires of the contest operator 
will of course, be different than for a casual operator, but too many 
buttons and knobs gets in the way of most operating scenarios that I can 
imagine.  If one desires a larger front panel, there is always HRD or 
N4PY software to 'fix' that problem - if the resulting software panel is 
not large enough, one can always get a larger monitor.


73,
Don W3FPR

Charles Harpole wrote:

Face it, MOST operators like a large front panel.


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