RE: [Elecraft] OT: THIS is the big deal about CW Skimmer

2008-02-07 Thread G4ILO


W6IZT-2 wrote:
> 
> All debates aside, Alex VE3NEA cranks out some true amazing software!
> 
Then perhaps he should be credited with all the extra points earned with it!
:)

OK, I've just caught up with the fact that Eric has called time on this
discussion. If anyone still wants to talk about it, let's carry on at
http://www.zerobeat.net/smf/index.php/topic,164.0.html .

-
Julian, G4ILO  K3 s/n: 222 K2 s/n: 392
G4ILO's Shack: www.g4ilo.com
Zerobeat Ham Forums: www.zerobeat.net/smf
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Re: [Elecraft] OT: THIS is the big deal about CW Skimmer [END of thread]

2008-02-06 Thread Eric Swartz WA6HHQ - Elecraft
Let's let the CW skimmer discussion rest for now. We've skimmed off all 
the meaningful comments... ;-)


73, Eric   WA6HHQ
Elecraft List Moderator

_..._


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Re: [Elecraft] OT: THIS is the big deal about CW Skimmer

2008-02-06 Thread Thom LaCosta

On Wed, 6 Feb 2008, Mike S wrote:


At 09:05 PM 2/6/2008, DOUGLAS ZWIEBEL wrote...

5.  The entire basis for CONTESTING is competition...a competition of
who has the best set of HUMAN skills...


Hams have (as a whole) always embraced new technology, but there are probably 
some still complaining that heterodynes are unfair competition for their 
spark gaps and crystal receivers.


Soon the qso will read something like:

k3 here, observer is thom.  I know you copy this, so don't bother to answer.  No 
need for signal reports, send electronic QSL.


73 k3hrn
Thom,EIEIO
Email, Internet, Electronic Information Officer

www.baltimorehon.com/Home of the Baltimore Lexicon
www.tlchost.net/hosting/ Web Hosting as low as 3.49/month
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RE: [Elecraft] OT: THIS is the big deal about CW Skimmer

2008-02-06 Thread W6IZT
All debates aside, Alex VE3NEA cranks out some true amazing software!

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of WA6OCP
Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 9:28 PM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] OT: THIS is the big deal about CW Skimmer




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Re: [Elecraft] OT: THIS is the big deal about CW Skimmer

2008-02-06 Thread Mike S

At 09:05 PM 2/6/2008, DOUGLAS ZWIEBEL wrote...

5.  The entire basis for CONTESTING is competition...a competition of
who has the best set of HUMAN skills...


Hams have (as a whole) always embraced new technology, but there are 
probably some still complaining that heterodynes are unfair competition 
for their spark gaps and crystal receivers.


Then why do you use electronic equipment? Why a K3 and not a Altoids 
tin special? Perhaps smoke signals or shouting would be a better test.




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Re: [Elecraft] OT: THIS is the big deal about CW Skimmer

2008-02-06 Thread WA6OCP

In a word, YUCK!

Neal WA6OCP
K3/10/305


DOUGLAS ZWIEBEL wrote:
> 
> OK...here it is in a nutshell.
> 
> 1.  CW Skimmer will profoundly change serious-level contesting forever
> 
> 2.  Serious contesters use two radios at once (called SO2R or single
> op, 2 radios).  While they CQ on one band (using a memory
> keyer...voice or cw), they TUNE a 2nd band, looking for additional
> contacts, using their 2nd radio.  This is very intense contesting and
> require super-human concentration and skill to be really successful.
> It means that you are constantly switching focus from the Radio A to
> Radio B (the switching is automatic, controlled by the contest
> software).
> 
> 3.  Currently, tuning the 2nd band is a manual process, requiring one
> to (a) find stations between CQs on the other band, and (b) copy who
> it is and (c) then decide if you need it or not and if you do, (d)
> work it while not "losing" your "RUN" frequency (the first radio
> frequency where you are CQing and working guys who answer your CQs).
> 
> 4.  With CW Skimmer, one no longer has to use their skill to (a) tune
> the 2nd band and (b) figure out who it is.  The computer does this for
> youand all at once for the whole band.
> 
> 5.  The entire basis for CONTESTING is competition...a competition of
> who has the best set of HUMAN skills...skills at using their
> equipment, but mostly skills at copying callsigns and working guys and
> tuning a second radio and doing the same.  With CW Skimmer, the
> "second radio" skill is effectively eliminated. The computer does it
> for you.  This is VERY FAR from DSP, or a yagi, or an amp, or an
> electronic keyer because.  Those things made CHORES easier.  This
> thing makes the only human element left (tuning the band and finding
> callsign) meaningless.  It eliminates the HUMAN element.  All you need
> now is a clerk to "point and shoot" or "point and click" whatever you
> want to call it.
> 
> 6.  With this "tool," a single op can now be SO6R and have a CW
> SKimmer on every band.  Someone will write a script so that
> multipliers bubble up as found...and even non-mults, but new Q's, will
> be easily flagged (and worked).  YOu wont have to "waste" time tuning
> and copying the callsign of stuff that you already worked.
> 
> 7.  CW decoders (such as included on Elecraft K3) only copy one
> signal, which YOU tuned to.  This thing does the whole band at once.
> 
> 8.  Yes, it is like an "automatic" packet/internet band-mapping tool,
> except that use of those places one in the "Assisted" or "unlimited"
> category, separate and apart from "single op all band."  Under the
> current rules for all contest, the addition of CW Skimmer will NOT
> cause a change in category away from Single Op All Band to the
> Assisted or Unlimited category.  How could it?  Nobody else is helping
> you get the callsigns.
> 
> 9.  For many, especially those who feel that "packet ruined
> contesting" or that "packet ruined DXing," this may turn out to be the
> "packet ruined contesting" of the 21st century.  As many have pointed
> out (if you want to read A LOT on this, go to the CQ-Contest
> Reflector:  www.contesting.com  ), with this "tool," there is
> currently no way to tell if the guy has a 2nd op in the shack, is
> using packet, or is using CW SKimmer.  It makes adjudication a
> nightmare (probably, impossible).
> 
> 10.  Serious SOAB contesters have long done everything possible to
> keep their category separate and apart from packet/internet users.
> They want to keep the category "pure."  This will make that job very,
> very difficult.
> 
> Why keep it "out?"  The same reason sailboat races do not allow
> engines/motors.  The same reason why the Daytona 500 does not allow
> jet engines to be used.  The same reason why people climb mountains
> instead of taking a helicopter.   The same reason why some folks only
> Bow-Hunt.
> 
> Sorry for the bandwidth, but there seems to be a fair about of
> interest in this topic.
> 
> Hope this helps paint a clearer picture.
> 
> de Doug KR2Q
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