Re: [Elecraft] RE: K2 with USB anytime soon??
- Original Message - From: "Francis Belliveau" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> So until there is a better generic communications standard, I say that the serial port is still the best choice for a small non-computer company like Elecraft. Users only need to know which port they have attached their equipment to, and if your machine doesn't have any then you can but one that attaches to your USB port. 100% spot-on. Elecraft's K2 has no need for USB, another argument in favour of RS-232 is the maximum cable length. Simon Brown --- http://blog.hb9drv.ch/ ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] RE: K2 with USB anytime soon??
Right on. That's how USB connectivity was incorporated into our latest product line. The FTDI part interfaces with a UART on the microcontroller on one side, and a normal USB host port on the PC. FTDI furnishes a USB driver and an application level DLL which our PC hosted control software calls into to move data into and out of the interface. We bit the bullet and signed on with the USB consortium to get our own Vendor Id number. The hardest part is figuring out how to manage the EEPROM holding the USB device descriptor and checksum, so as to give the FTDI part it's new identity (documentation was sketchy). Also the distribution of the driver, application DLL, and .inf file had to be worked out, as was the management of USB serial numbers in mfg. But really no big deal, the investment in the serial protocol is preserved, and no USB driver needs to be written from scratch. Anyway, the FTDI part makes tunnelling an existing serial protocol through the USB port easy and our customers are happy since they can use USB natively on their new laptops without RS232 ports. They hate converters since the use case is temporary setups in the field for maintenance and diagnostics - they want a minimum of cables and whatnot to lug around and fuss with. Bob NW8L On 6/18/06, Hisashi T Fujinaka <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Most small-volume projects I've seen just use the FTDI USB to serial interface. Basically it moves the USB-to-serial interface into the project. Not real sure if it's hard to use, but check out the WinKey USB to see an example. I also have a PIC programmer that uses the same chip. The serial works on my Mac and my PC. In other words, I don't think it's that big a deal. -- Hisashi T Fujinaka - [EMAIL PROTECTED] BSEE(6/86) + BSChem(3/95) + BAEnglish(8/95) + MSCS(8/03) + $2.50 = latte ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
RE: [Elecraft] RE: K2 with USB anytime soon??
Most small-volume projects I've seen just use the FTDI USB to serial interface. Basically it moves the USB-to-serial interface into the project. Not real sure if it's hard to use, but check out the WinKey USB to see an example. I also have a PIC programmer that uses the same chip. The serial works on my Mac and my PC. In other words, I don't think it's that big a deal. -- Hisashi T Fujinaka - [EMAIL PROTECTED] BSEE(6/86) + BSChem(3/95) + BAEnglish(8/95) + MSCS(8/03) + $2.50 = latte ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
RE: [Elecraft] RE: K2 with USB anytime soon??
Fran brought out some good points. Thanks you Fran. I'd like to take it a bit deeper. Technically Elecraft could develop a set of USB based rig control semantics that allowed end user programs (loggers or just simple rig controllers) to use the Windows native HID (Human Interface Device) USB API (Application Programming Interface). Other ham radio programs have done this. But it's really a bit of a hack and often falls short of what the programmer was trying to achieve. On conjecture, let's assume that Elecraft wanted to do it the right way. They would have to develop a native "kernel mode" USB driver unique to the K2 that would be inserted into the "I/O stack" above than the raw USB protocol driver. Realistically this could be done for Windows. It probably would not be done for Linux or the Mac. Well, now they've gone beyond just doing firmware that runs inside the rig to supporting an OS driver(s). And they would probably want to change the PIC chip on the KIO card to be one with the USB serial engine built on board - more design and firmware coding. It could be done but it would be a major effort. If they are doing it right they will spend upwards of $2000 (every two years) to get a registered "USB vendor ID" from the board that handles this. Or they could just becomes USB-IF members at $4000 annually. Not a cheap thing in either case. Finally people who write the application programs that we use to control the K2 would now have to include the Elecraft driver so that their program could work. Chances are these "application" programmers (some are really good at it, some only so-so) might not know how to debug problems at the USB and/or kernel level. Ugh, what a mess. RS232 is a lot simpler. Let's consider developing a rig control program. With RS-232 you can take two computers and connect their com ports together. Then you could use a terminal program to see what your program is sending down to the rig. You might even quickly throw together an "emulator" for a rig that sends a response back to the program. In fact if your computer has two com ports you don't even need the second computer. However all is not black for the USB only laptop crowd! There are a number of USB->RS232 adapters available. They are inexpensive and the few that I've been lent to try out have worked just fine for rig control. They are not that expensive. I just did a quick check at http://www.outpost.com and found the cheapest at $15 ranging up to $40. Using a USB->RS232 adapter lets a USB only equipped laptop work with an RS232 protocol that probably has been well debugged. And rig control just doesn't need raw USB speeds. Anything above 4800 baud is probably more than enough for most purposes. Sorry to be long winded but I wanted to convey some idea of the ripples that would ensue from trying to oblige a "simple" request like native USB control. I have looked into doing this for a couple of project that I would like to do myself. RS232, while long in the tooth, look pretty good in comparison. Cheers, -rick, K7LOG -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Francis Belliveau Sent: Sunday, June 18, 2006 1:27 PM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: [Elecraft] RE: K2 with USB anytime soon?? I think that those asking the question do not fully understand all the facts. Admittedly, all computing hardware that comes with USB and RS-232 hardware comes with drivers for this hardware. However, USB is treated as another bus, like PCI, and drivers must be installed for each kind of hardware installed there. . . Fran, KA4FRH ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
