Re: [Elecraft] K3 LINE Out mixes KRX3 and main output?
The microKeyer II, for example, has the Master control grayed out but the left and right channels are independently adjustable. Correct, microKEYER II uses the Micronas UAC2556B codec which has independent left and right attenuators for the line input. Some operating system drivers show them as independent controls while some map them as a gain/balance pair. The Micronas also has a single channel (left channel in the USB data stream) mic input. My digiKeyer uses the Burr-Brown PCM2902; when using Core Audio, there is no master, left nor right controls. All DigiKeyers use the TI (Burr-Brown) PCM2902 CODEC. The TI has a single dual channel audio input. There are no electronic level controls on the input (chip design). I'm not aware of on-chip attenuators on any of the TI/BB USB products. 73, ... Joe, W4TV -Original Message- From: Kok Chen [mailto:c...@mac.com] Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2009 12:40 AM To: Elecraft Reflector Cc: Leigh L. Klotz, Jr WA5ZNU; li...@subich.com Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 LINE Out mixes KRX3 and main output? On Jan 31, 2009, at 9:16 PM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote: For the device in question, Griffin iMic, this doesn't seem to be the case. It does not separate enumerations for independently setting left and right input gain. It does support stereo input, just not two mic/line gain controls. I don't know about the iMic - Chen would though. It depends on the generation of the Griffin Technology iMic. I have three generations of iMic, dating back from more than 5 years ago. The are the grey disk shaped ones, not the current-generation white ones. The oldest one had a 20 bit input codec, with no digital attenuator, no left, no right, no Master. The next generation is also 20 bits, but it has independent left and right attenuators (as seen from Core Audio -- I don't use Port Audio), but no master attenuator. Both of the above have 20 bit codecs in them, but uses the USB Audio Interface class and you can only see 16 bits (they don't need special drivers, but you also don't see 20 bits, HI). After that (and I believe it is true with the white bodied ones) they went to a 16 bit codec. Mine (still a gray body) only has a master level control but no individual left and right controls. If you are using Mac OS X, the easiest thing is to launch the Audio MIDI Setup utility that is in /Applications/Utilities. Audio MIDI Setup also uses Core Audio. There are three slider associated with each sound card's volume, a Master slider, and channels 1 (left) and 2 (right). If a control is not available, it will be grayed out. The microKeyer II, for example, has the Master control grayed out but the left and right channels are independently adjustable. My digiKeyer uses the Burr-Brown PCM2902; when using Core Audio, there is no master, left nor right controls. 73 Chen, W7AY __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 LINE Out mixes KRX3 and main output?
It doubles the data transfer to capture both sound channels and discard one. Why would you bother to capture both? Your software should be able to select left, right or mixed input from the soundcard. Even relatively basic USB sound codecs provide control over the input configuration. 73, ... Joe, W4TV -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Leigh L. Klotz, Jr WA5ZNU Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2009 1:24 AM To: a...@cablespeed.com Cc: Elecraft Reflector Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 LINE Out mixes KRX3 and main output? Yes, so my request would be to be able to mute one of them. Using a cable to connect only left is the best solution if the rig can't mute one. It doubles the data transfer to capture both sound channels and discard one. I agree though it's not that high priority. Leigh/WA5ZNU When the SUB is turned on the Line Out audio is Main=left and Sub=Right. - 73, Greg - AB7R Whidbey Island WA NA-065 On Fri Jan 30 11:12 , Iain MacDonnell - N6ML sent: Leigh L. Klotz, Jr WA5ZNU wrote: Is it possible to control whether the sub rx goes to the line out or not? It seems that both main and sub rx are always going to line out; I guess they're on left/right channels? If not, I guess I need to make a cable to cut out one channel so I don't see both with my mono sound card line input. That doesn't quite make sense. If your line-in is really mono, the right channel would not be connected to anything. Are you sure it's not the software you're using that's mixing the two channels together ? Also check your audio recording volume control settings (assuming this is on Windoze) - maybe you're recording the Mono Mix instead of Line In ? ~Iain ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 LINE Out mixes KRX3 and main output?
Joe Subich, W4TV wrote: It doubles the data transfer to capture both sound channels and discard one. Why would you bother to capture both? Your software should be able to select left, right or mixed input from the soundcard. Hmmm...I'm looking at the multi-platform PortAudio v19 API here: http://www.portaudio.com/docs/v19-doxydocs/structPaStreamParameters.html Currently, we're using PaStreamParameters::channelCount=1, which doesn't offer the opportunity to specify a left or right. With channelCount=2, we could of course get two channels and discard one, as I mentioned. PulseAudio, which is Linux only, doesn't seem to support it either, but I believe ALSA and OSS do. So, if we use a Linux only solution it's possible to specify single-channel capture without discarding one channel, but for the cross-platform APIs, it doesn't seem possible. I know you know more about sound device manufacture than I do, so maybe you can point us at something we've overlooked in PortAudio, so at least we could get portable sound capture support for single-channel input. Even relatively basic USB sound codecs provide control over the input configuration. For the device in question, Griffin iMic, this doesn't seem to be the case. It does not separate enumerations for independently setting left and right input gain. It does support stereo input, just not two mic/line gain controls. This seems to be the case on Linux (see http://seehuhn.de/pages/imic ) as well as Vista. On Vista, it's even worse, and won't capture in stereo at all. Leigh/WA5ZNU __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 LINE Out mixes KRX3 and main output?
For the device in question, Griffin iMic, this doesn't seem to be the case. It does not separate enumerations for independently setting left and right input gain. It does support stereo input, just not two mic/line gain controls. I don't know about the iMic - Chen would though. We've been using TI and Micronas USB sound devices that are directly supported by the native Windows Audio. The TI devices do not have an input mixer - sounds a lot like the iMic - but they still provide two channels of receive audio and an application can hook either channel or force the driver into mixed mono. I've used both the TI and Micronas based devices in stereo (separate left/right) for dual receive or right only (sub RX only) with MMTY, MMVARI, and MixW. Unfortunately, I see the issue with FLdigi ... it uses mixed mono with either the TI or Micronas CODECs. I can handle that by turning down the input level to the CODECS (manual gain controls) but that still does not permit dual receive. Interestingly, DM780 handles both the TS and Micronas in left channel (Main RX) only. 73, ... Joe, W4TV -Original Message- From: Leigh L. Klotz, Jr WA5ZNU [mailto:le...@wa5znu.org] Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2009 7:51 PM To: li...@subich.com Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 LINE Out mixes KRX3 and main output? Joe Subich, W4TV wrote: It doubles the data transfer to capture both sound channels and discard one. Why would you bother to capture both? Your software should be able to select left, right or mixed input from the soundcard. Hmmm...I'm looking at the multi-platform PortAudio v19 API here: http://www.portaudio.com/docs/v19-doxydocs/structPaStreamParam eters.html Currently, we're using PaStreamParameters::channelCount=1, which doesn't offer the opportunity to specify a left or right. With channelCount=2, we could of course get two channels and discard one, as I mentioned. PulseAudio, which is Linux only, doesn't seem to support it either, but I believe ALSA and OSS do. So, if we use a Linux only solution it's possible to specify single-channel capture without discarding one channel, but for the cross-platform APIs, it doesn't seem possible. I know you know more about sound device manufacture than I do, so maybe you can point us at something we've overlooked in PortAudio, so at least we could get portable sound capture support for single-channel input. Even relatively basic USB sound codecs provide control over the input configuration. For the device in question, Griffin iMic, this doesn't seem to be the case. It does not separate enumerations for independently setting left and right input gain. It does support stereo input, just not two mic/line gain controls. This seems to be the case on Linux (see http://seehuhn.de/pages/imic ) as well as Vista. On Vista, it's even worse, and won't capture in stereo at all. Leigh/WA5ZNU __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 LINE Out mixes KRX3 and main output?
On Jan 31, 2009, at 9:16 PM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote: For the device in question, Griffin iMic, this doesn't seem to be the case. It does not separate enumerations for independently setting left and right input gain. It does support stereo input, just not two mic/line gain controls. I don't know about the iMic - Chen would though. It depends on the generation of the Griffin Technology iMic. I have three generations of iMic, dating back from more than 5 years ago. The are the grey disk shaped ones, not the current-generation white ones. The oldest one had a 20 bit input codec, with no digital attenuator, no left, no right, no Master. The next generation is also 20 bits, but it has independent left and right attenuators (as seen from Core Audio -- I don't use Port Audio), but no master attenuator. Both of the above have 20 bit codecs in them, but uses the USB Audio Interface class and you can only see 16 bits (they don't need special drivers, but you also don't see 20 bits, HI). After that (and I believe it is true with the white bodied ones) they went to a 16 bit codec. Mine (still a gray body) only has a master level control but no individual left and right controls. If you are using Mac OS X, the easiest thing is to launch the Audio MIDI Setup utility that is in /Applications/Utilities. Audio MIDI Setup also uses Core Audio. There are three slider associated with each sound card's volume, a Master slider, and channels 1 (left) and 2 (right). If a control is not available, it will be grayed out. The microKeyer II, for example, has the Master control grayed out but the left and right channels are independently adjustable. My digiKeyer uses the Burr-Brown PCM2902; when using Core Audio, there is no master, left nor right controls. 73 Chen, W7AY __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 LINE Out mixes KRX3 and main output?
Leigh L. Klotz, Jr WA5ZNU wrote: Is it possible to control whether the sub rx goes to the line out or not? It seems that both main and sub rx are always going to line out; I guess they're on left/right channels? If not, I guess I need to make a cable to cut out one channel so I don't see both with my mono sound card line input. That doesn't quite make sense. If your line-in is really mono, the right channel would not be connected to anything. Are you sure it's not the software you're using that's mixing the two channels together ? Also check your audio recording volume control settings (assuming this is on Windoze) - maybe you're recording the Mono Mix instead of Line In ? ~Iain ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] K3 LINE Out mixes KRX3 and main output?
Sorry for the confusion on the sound card side: It's a stereo input, but I don't get software control of the balance or independent gain. It's not on Windows. The Griffin iMic device specs say stereo, but the driver appears to be supporting only mono gain controls. If I go to LIN OUT menu and tapping button 1 to get =PHONES then I can use the audio gain controls to control the mix, but if I use NOR mode LIN OUT then it's always mixed. Probably easiest for me to make a cable than (a) fix the driver or (b) ask for firmware changes. Leigh/WA5ZNU Leigh L. Klotz, Jr WA5ZNU wrote: Is it possible to control whether the sub rx goes to the line out or not? It seems that both main and sub rx are always going to line out; I guess they're on left/right channels? If not, I guess I need to make a cable to cut out one channel so I don't see both with my mono sound card line input. That doesn't quite make sense. If your line-in is really mono, the right channel would not be connected to anything. Are you sure it's not the software you're using that's mixing the two channels together ? Also check your audio recording volume control settings (assuming this is on Windoze) - maybe you're recording the Mono Mix instead of Line In ? ~Iain ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] K3 LINE Out mixes KRX3 and main output?
When the SUB is turned on the Line Out audio is Main=left and Sub=Right. - 73, Greg - AB7R Whidbey Island WA NA-065 On Fri Jan 30 11:12 , Iain MacDonnell - N6ML sent: Leigh L. Klotz, Jr WA5ZNU wrote: Is it possible to control whether the sub rx goes to the line out or not? It seems that both main and sub rx are always going to line out; I guess they're on left/right channels? If not, I guess I need to make a cable to cut out one channel so I don't see both with my mono sound card line input. That doesn't quite make sense. If your line-in is really mono, the right channel would not be connected to anything. Are you sure it's not the software you're using that's mixing the two channels together ? Also check your audio recording volume control settings (assuming this is on Windoze) - maybe you're recording the Mono Mix instead of Line In ? ~Iain ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] K3 LINE Out mixes KRX3 and main output?
I think the right place to fix it would be in whatever software is using the captured audio - the driver is OK, but the software needs to let you select channels you want. In lieu of that, an adapter cable makes sense... ~Iain Leigh L. Klotz, Jr WA5ZNU wrote: Sorry for the confusion on the sound card side: It's a stereo input, but I don't get software control of the balance or independent gain. It's not on Windows. The Griffin iMic device specs say stereo, but the driver appears to be supporting only mono gain controls. If I go to LIN OUT menu and tapping button 1 to get =PHONES then I can use the audio gain controls to control the mix, but if I use NOR mode LIN OUT then it's always mixed. Probably easiest for me to make a cable than (a) fix the driver or (b) ask for firmware changes. Leigh/WA5ZNU Leigh L. Klotz, Jr WA5ZNU wrote: Is it possible to control whether the sub rx goes to the line out or not? It seems that both main and sub rx are always going to line out; I guess they're on left/right channels? If not, I guess I need to make a cable to cut out one channel so I don't see both with my mono sound card line input. That doesn't quite make sense. If your line-in is really mono, the right channel would not be connected to anything. Are you sure it's not the software you're using that's mixing the two channels together ? Also check your audio recording volume control settings (assuming this is on Windoze) - maybe you're recording the Mono Mix instead of Line In ? ~Iain ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] K3 LINE Out mixes KRX3 and main output?
I took a quick look at it and I think I need to capture 2x the data and discard half of it in order to get just one channel out of the sound device. So I think fixing it in hardware makes more sense... Leigh/WA5ZNU I think the right place to fix it would be in whatever software is using the captured audio - the driver is OK, but the software needs to let you select channels you want. In lieu of that, an adapter cable makes sense... ~Iain Leigh L. Klotz, Jr WA5ZNU wrote: Sorry for the confusion on the sound card side: It's a stereo input, but I don't get software control of the balance or independent gain. It's not on Windows. The Griffin iMic device specs say stereo, but the driver appears to be supporting only mono gain controls. If I go to LIN OUT menu and tapping button 1 to get =PHONES then I can use the audio gain controls to control the mix, but if I use NOR mode LIN OUT then it's always mixed. Probably easiest for me to make a cable than (a) fix the driver or (b) ask for firmware changes. Leigh/WA5ZNU Leigh L. Klotz, Jr WA5ZNU wrote: Is it possible to control whether the sub rx goes to the line out or not? It seems that both main and sub rx are always going to line out; I guess they're on left/right channels? If not, I guess I need to make a cable to cut out one channel so I don't see both with my mono sound card line input. ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] K3 LINE Out mixes KRX3 and main output?
Yes, so my request would be to be able to mute one of them. Using a cable to connect only left is the best solution if the rig can't mute one. It doubles the data transfer to capture both sound channels and discard one. I agree though it's not that high priority. Leigh/WA5ZNU When the SUB is turned on the Line Out audio is Main=left and Sub=Right. - 73, Greg - AB7R Whidbey Island WA NA-065 On Fri Jan 30 11:12 , Iain MacDonnell - N6ML sent: Leigh L. Klotz, Jr WA5ZNU wrote: Is it possible to control whether the sub rx goes to the line out or not? It seems that both main and sub rx are always going to line out; I guess they're on left/right channels? If not, I guess I need to make a cable to cut out one channel so I don't see both with my mono sound card line input. That doesn't quite make sense. If your line-in is really mono, the right channel would not be connected to anything. Are you sure it's not the software you're using that's mixing the two channels together ? Also check your audio recording volume control settings (assuming this is on Windoze) - maybe you're recording the Mono Mix instead of Line In ? ~Iain ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
