Re: [Elecraft] K3 and phase noise
Hi Eric Do you have any transmitter IMD numbers yet? Craig VK3HE --- Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Bill, The reference on-channel signal for past ARRL BDR testing has typically been set between -110 and -80 dBm, well above the MDS. te interfering signal generator is increased until this signal drops by a dB due to compression. This on frequency signal dominates the in-band RMS audio voltage. The noise floor needs to raise a lot before it dominates that signal. Also, even on the Orion, their BDR is well above their phase noise at any spacing. For the Orion II, the ARRL numbers are: 2kHz 20kHz Phase Noise-129 -125 BDR 136 136 Neither of their BDRs were noise limited. For the particular K3 I tested the phase noise on below, I measured a typical BDR of 140-141dB at spacings 5 kHz and wider and about 138dB at 2 kHz. On another note, as I mentioned in my email, the ARRL has refined a number of their test methods. They are now making the dynamic range measurements by measuring the on frequency IMD spur or blocked signal using a narrow band spectrum analyzer. This separates the blocking or IMD measurement from reciprocal mixing, which they will do as an additional test. See page 71 of the May 2006 QST for details. 73, Eric WA6HHQ - Bill Tippett wrote: WA6HHQ: Rig 1kHz2 10 20 50 100 1M K3 -110 -119 -136 -140 -143 -144 -150 I'm now wondering how you measured 143 dB BDR at 2 kHz in the presence of 119 dB Phase Noise? Shouldn't the measurement have been phase noise limited? 73, Bill W4ZV ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone who knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=listsid=396545433 ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] K3 and phase noise
Here are transmit composite phase noise numbers from the Lab for the K3. Needless to say, we are pleased with the results. :-) I've also included some numbers from the ARRL reviews for several late model rigs. Rig 1kHz2 10 20 50 100 1M K3 -110 -119 -136 -140 -143 -144 -150 IC7800 -103 -112 -130 -138 -140 -140 -140 FT2000 -102 -105 -128 -129 -128 -128 -128 ORION 2 -121 -129 -126 -125 -118 -128 -138 OMNI 7 -102 -103 -120 -123 -127 -129 -126 Note: All of the above data reflect the ARRL's latest phase noise lab test set up. The K3 was tested on an identical set up which has been correlated with the ARRL's. The ARRL changed to this more accurate phase noise test set up with the IC7000 Review in May of 2006. (See the sidebar in the IC-7000 review, on pg 71, for details covering this change.) Phase noise results from reviews prior to May 2006 were off by 7.5 dB (too optimistic). When comparing new phase noise results to the old ones, move upward on the chart 7.5 dB from the old number. (i.e. For an old phase noise number of -110 dB, the corrected value is 110-7.5 = -102.5 dB.) The new phase noise plots are easy to spot as they extend to 1 MHz, versus the 22 kHz limit of the old ones. All of the above data are from the new test method. 73, Eric WA6HHQ Alexandr Kobranov wrote: Hello all, I am looking for any relevant info about phase noise of K3 - is there any plot or table with any numbers? If I missed something somewhere please let me know by individual e-mails and sorry for bandwidth. 73! es GL Lexa, OK1DST ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] K3 and phase noise
Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft wrote: Here are transmit composite phase noise numbers from the Lab for the K3. Needless to say, we are pleased with the results. :-) I've also included some numbers from the ARRL reviews for several late model rigs. Rig 1kHz2 10 20 50 100 1M K3 -110 -119 -136 -140 -143 -144 -150 IC7800 -103 -112 -130 -138 -140 -140 -140 FT2000 -102 -105 -128 -129 -128 -128 -128 ORION 2 -121 -129 -126 -125 -118 -128 -138 OMNI 7 -102 -103 -120 -123 -127 -129 -126 Great stuff Eric! Where would the K2 fit in here? Ian -- Ian J Maude G0VGS SysOp GB7MBC DX Cluster Member of RSGB, ARRL, GQRP K2 #4044 | K3 #? ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] K3 and phase noise
Hi Bill, The reference on-channel signal for past ARRL BDR testing has typically been set between -110 and -80 dBm, well above the MDS. te interfering signal generator is increased until this signal drops by a dB due to compression. This on frequency signal dominates the in-band RMS audio voltage. The noise floor needs to raise a lot before it dominates that signal. Also, even on the Orion, their BDR is well above their phase noise at any spacing. For the Orion II, the ARRL numbers are: 2kHz 20kHz Phase Noise-129 -125 BDR 136 136 Neither of their BDRs were noise limited. For the particular K3 I tested the phase noise on below, I measured a typical BDR of 140-141dB at spacings 5 kHz and wider and about 138dB at 2 kHz. On another note, as I mentioned in my email, the ARRL has refined a number of their test methods. They are now making the dynamic range measurements by measuring the on frequency IMD spur or blocked signal using a narrow band spectrum analyzer. This separates the blocking or IMD measurement from reciprocal mixing, which they will do as an additional test. See page 71 of the May 2006 QST for details. 73, Eric WA6HHQ - Bill Tippett wrote: WA6HHQ: Rig 1kHz2 10 20 50 100 1M K3 -110 -119 -136 -140 -143 -144 -150 I'm now wondering how you measured 143 dB BDR at 2 kHz in the presence of 119 dB Phase Noise? Shouldn't the measurement have been phase noise limited? 73, Bill W4ZV ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] K3 and phase noise
And if you look at the actual phase noise plots the actual cross over point is right about 5 kHz. You are absolutely right about the importance of looking at the overall area 'under the curve' for phase noise as you move out across the band. The sum integrated total of the mixing of the phase noise with all off freq signals adds to the total noise floor in your RX on a busy band. This is especially important on bands like 40M at night on the east coast and Eu, where there are lots of -very- strong BC signals in addition to all the ham activity within 100 kHz to a MHz of your operating frequency. Add a busy contest and whammo! :-) 73, Eric WA6HHQ - Bill Tippett wrote: I wrote: Rig 1kHz2 10 20 50 100 1M K3 -110 -119 -136 -140 -143 -144 -150 ORION 2 -121 -129 -126 -125 -118 -128 -138 Delta-11 -10 +10 +15 +25 +26 +12 Make that +16 ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
