Re: [Elecraft] Who's On First?

[Bob Wilson, N6TV]

Yes, according to the Release notes (hfwnotes.rtf):

*MCU 5.33 / DSP 2.86 / FPF 1.23, 8-3-2015*

* PTT/KEY USE WITH THE USB PORT IMPROVED:  PC applications can activate PTT
and KEY at the K3S via the USB port's RTS/DTR signals. However, initial
setup of the rig's USB port by the PC may cause pulsed or continuous
activation of the transmitter. This can happen if the computer is turned on
after the K3S, or if the USB cable is not connected. There is now a "Safe"
mode (the default) which disables PTT-KEY transmit until the K3S receives a
command via USB, such as a read of the rig's VFO frequency. To turn on safe
mode on/off, go into CONFIG:PTT-KEY and tap '1' to select "USB SAFE" or
"UNSAFE". Exit the menu and turn the K3S off/on. Applications that use
PTT-KEY via USB but never send commands may require "UNSAFE" mode. In this
case, unwanted transmit can be avoided by turning the PC on before the K3S.

* CANCELLING UNEXPECTED PTT-KEY ACTIVATION:  If an external source (usually
a PC) activates PTT or KEY unexpectedly, you can cancel transmit by tapping
the XMIT switch. This will show ERR KEY or ERR PTT on VFO B. Once the PTT
or KEY source as been removed, transmit will be re-enabled. If the cause
may be unneeded PTT-KEY activation via the USB port, go into the
CONFIG:PTT-KEY menu entry and set the parameter to OFF-OFF.


However, if use an FTDI USB-to-Serial adapter on Windows with other
Elecraft radios or devices, the FTDI drivers provide an easy way to disable
the search for a serial mouse or legacy analog modem on the serial port,
and this prevents unwanted RTS/DTR "key down" activation at boot time.
This works with recent KUSB adapters or homebrew external CW or FSK keying
circuits on virtual serial ports that may be connected to your radio (K3,
K3S, KX2, KX3, etc.).

   1. Open the Windows *Device Manager* (shortcut:  Windows Key +  R
   (run):  devmgmt.msc)
   2. Expand *Ports*
   3. *Right click* on the virtual COM port defined by the FTDI
   USB-to-Serial Adapter
   4. Click *Properties*
   5. Select the *Port Settings* tab
   6. Click the *Advanced...* button
   7. Under *Miscellaneous Options*:
  1. Uncheck *Serial Enumerator* (default is checked)
  2. Check *Disable Modem Control at Startup* (default is unchecked).
  This should be the only option in the list that should be checked.
   8. Click *OK* to close the Advanced Settings dialog
   9. Click *OK* again to close the Serial Port Properties dialog

As far as I know, only FTDI's USB-to-Serial drivers provide options to
disable this legacy behavior on Windows that causes RTS/DTR to be activated
at boot time.

73,
Bob, N6TV

On Thu, Mar 29, 2018 at 5:11 PM, Don Wilhelm  wrote:

> Bill,
>
> If you have updated the K3 firmware in the last few months, it does not
> make any difference whether the K3 or the computer is turned on first.
> The K3 now has a SAFE mode that disables DTR and RTS until it receives
> some command like polling for frequency, mode, etc. from your software
> application.
>
> You can go into the K3 CONFIG menu for KEY-PTT and turn it to unsafe if
> you have devices that monitor the RS-232 bus and do not issue any commands
> (SteppIR controllers for one instance).
>
> Look at the firmware release notes for the past 3 months.
> BTW, the firmware release notes should be considered an addition to your
> K3/K3S manual.  Do not overlook them.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
> On 3/29/2018 6:58 PM, Bill Frantz wrote:
>
>> On my Mac system, it doesn't seem to matter whether the radio or the
>> computer starts first. The USB interface to my upgraded K3 is powered from
>> the computer with enough functionality that the computer recognizes it
>> without the radio being on.
>>
>> In any case, start wsjt-x last because it will try to talk to the radio
>> for rig control and harass you until it can succeed. I've been in this
>> situation enough times to know that starting the radio, waiting until the
>> radio is ready to talk to the computer and then clicking "Retry" works.
>>
>> 73 Bill AE6JV
>>
>> __
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Re: [Elecraft] Who's On First?

[Fred Jensen]

Because it's there, Jack.  Code comes ... it never goes.

73,

Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW
Sparks NV DM09dn
Washoe County

On 3/31/2018 7:03 PM, Jack Brindle wrote:

This is a remnant of days long gone when the PC - DOS and early Windows systems 
used serial-port connected mice. It used the sequence to detect the presence of 
a mouse. The Mac has never used asynchronous serial-port based mice, instead 
using a special bus, followed by ADB in early Macs (starting with the Mac 
Plus), then USB after it was adopted. Thus it does not mess with the serial 
ports on startup.

I now wonder why Microsoft maintains this arcane procedure since its utility 
has long passed into history.

Jack, W6FB



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Re: [Elecraft] Who's On First?

[Jack Brindle]

This is a remnant of days long gone when the PC - DOS and early Windows systems 
used serial-port connected mice. It used the sequence to detect the presence of 
a mouse. The Mac has never used asynchronous serial-port based mice, instead 
using a special bus, followed by ADB in early Macs (starting with the Mac 
Plus), then USB after it was adopted. Thus it does not mess with the serial 
ports on startup. 

I now wonder why Microsoft maintains this arcane procedure since its utility 
has long passed into history.

Jack, W6FB


> On Mar 31, 2018, at 4:31 PM, Bill Frantz  wrote:
> 
> I guess I'm not being clear. I don't think the Mac moves the DTR/RTS lines 
> when it boots. I haven't ever seen the K3 go into transmit mode when I reboot.
> 
> Of course that might be because I have PTT_KEY set to OFF-OFF and use VOX for 
> sound card modes except wsjt-x and RUMlogNG contest mode. (They use the CAT 
> interface.)
> 
> 73 Bill AE6JV
> 
> On 3/29/18 at 5:11 PM, donw...@embarqmail.com (Don Wilhelm) wrote:
> 
>> If you have updated the K3 firmware in the last few months, it does not make 
>> any difference whether the K3 or the computer is turned on first.
>> The K3 now has a SAFE mode that disables DTR and RTS until it receives some 
>> command like polling for frequency, mode, etc. from your software 
>> application.
>> 
>> You can go into the K3 CONFIG menu for KEY-PTT and turn it to unsafe if you 
>> have devices that monitor the RS-232 bus and do not issue any commands 
>> (SteppIR controllers for one instance).
>> 
>> Look at the firmware release notes for the past 3 months.
>> BTW, the firmware release notes should be considered an addition to your 
>> K3/K3S manual.  Do not overlook them.
>> 
>> 73,
>> Don W3FPR
>> 
>> On 3/29/2018 6:58 PM, Bill Frantz wrote:
>>> On my Mac system, it doesn't seem to matter whether the radio or the 
>>> computer starts first. The USB interface to my upgraded K3 is powered from 
>>> the computer with enough functionality that the computer recognizes it 
>>> without the radio being on.
>>> 
>>> In any case, start wsjt-x last because it will try to talk to the radio for 
>>> rig control and harass you until it can succeed. I've been in this 
>>> situation enough times to know that starting the radio, waiting until the 
>>> radio is ready to talk to the computer and then clicking "Retry" works.
>>> 
>>> 73 Bill AE6JV
>>> 
>> 
> ---
> Bill Frantz| "I wish there was a knob on the TV to turn up the
> 408-356-8506   | intelligence.  There's a knob called "brightness", but
> www.pwpconsult.com | it doesn't work. -- Gallagher
> 
> __
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Re: [Elecraft] Who's On First?

[Bill Frantz]

I guess I'm not being clear. I don't think the Mac moves the 
DTR/RTS lines when it boots. I haven't ever seen the K3 go into 
transmit mode when I reboot.


Of course that might be because I have PTT_KEY set to OFF-OFF 
and use VOX for sound card modes except wsjt-x and RUMlogNG 
contest mode. (They use the CAT interface.)


73 Bill AE6JV

On 3/29/18 at 5:11 PM, donw...@embarqmail.com (Don Wilhelm) wrote:

If you have updated the K3 firmware in the last few months, it 
does not make any difference whether the K3 or the computer is 
turned on first.
The K3 now has a SAFE mode that disables DTR and RTS until it 
receives some command like polling for frequency, mode, etc. 
from your software application.


You can go into the K3 CONFIG menu for KEY-PTT and turn it to 
unsafe if you have devices that monitor the RS-232 bus and do 
not issue any commands (SteppIR controllers for one instance).


Look at the firmware release notes for the past 3 months.
BTW, the firmware release notes should be considered an 
addition to your K3/K3S manual.  Do not overlook them.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 3/29/2018 6:58 PM, Bill Frantz wrote:
On my Mac system, it doesn't seem to matter whether the radio 
or the computer starts first. The USB interface to my upgraded 
K3 is powered from the computer with enough functionality that 
the computer recognizes it without the radio being on.


In any case, start wsjt-x last because it will try to talk to 
the radio for rig control and harass you until it can succeed. 
I've been in this situation enough times to know that starting 
the radio, waiting until the radio is ready to talk to the 
computer and then clicking "Retry" works.


73 Bill AE6JV




---
Bill Frantz| "I wish there was a knob on the TV to turn 
up the
408-356-8506   | intelligence.  There's a knob called 
"brightness", but

www.pwpconsult.com | it doesn't work. -- Gallagher

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Re: [Elecraft] Who's On First?

[kevinr]

The real question is the name of the right fielder?

    Kevin.  KD5ONS


On 03/29/2018 05:11 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote:

Bill,

If you have updated the K3 firmware in the last few months, it does 
not make any difference whether the K3 or the computer is turned on 
first.
The K3 now has a SAFE mode that disables DTR and RTS until it receives 
some command like polling for frequency, mode, etc. from your software 
application.


You can go into the K3 CONFIG menu for KEY-PTT and turn it to unsafe 
if you have devices that monitor the RS-232 bus and do not issue any 
commands (SteppIR controllers for one instance).


Look at the firmware release notes for the past 3 months.
BTW, the firmware release notes should be considered an addition to 
your K3/K3S manual.  Do not overlook them.


73,
Don W3FPR


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Re: [Elecraft] Who's On First?

[Don Wilhelm]

Bill,

If you have updated the K3 firmware in the last few months, it does not 
make any difference whether the K3 or the computer is turned on first.
The K3 now has a SAFE mode that disables DTR and RTS until it receives 
some command like polling for frequency, mode, etc. from your software 
application.


You can go into the K3 CONFIG menu for KEY-PTT and turn it to unsafe if 
you have devices that monitor the RS-232 bus and do not issue any 
commands (SteppIR controllers for one instance).


Look at the firmware release notes for the past 3 months.
BTW, the firmware release notes should be considered an addition to your 
K3/K3S manual.  Do not overlook them.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 3/29/2018 6:58 PM, Bill Frantz wrote:
On my Mac system, it doesn't seem to matter whether the radio or the 
computer starts first. The USB interface to my upgraded K3 is powered 
from the computer with enough functionality that the computer recognizes 
it without the radio being on.


In any case, start wsjt-x last because it will try to talk to the radio 
for rig control and harass you until it can succeed. I've been in this 
situation enough times to know that starting the radio, waiting until 
the radio is ready to talk to the computer and then clicking "Retry" works.


73 Bill AE6JV


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Re: [Elecraft] Who's On First?

[Bill Frantz]

On my Mac system, it doesn't seem to matter whether the radio or 
the computer starts first. The USB interface to my upgraded K3 
is powered from the computer with enough functionality that the 
computer recognizes it without the radio being on.


In any case, start wsjt-x last because it will try to talk to 
the radio for rig control and harass you until it can succeed. 
I've been in this situation enough times to know that starting 
the radio, waiting until the radio is ready to talk to the 
computer and then clicking "Retry" works.


73 Bill AE6JV

On 3/28/18 at 6:42 AM, flat...@comcast.net (Richard) wrote:

A while back, someone commented upon the correct order in which 
to power up when running WSJT-X, but I can’t remember. It was 
either K3S first, then computer and software… or the other 
way around.


Please refresh my memory. And, by the way, why is it the way it is?

Cheers.
Richard -- W4KBX


---
Bill Frantz|"After all, if the conventional wisdom was 
working, the
408-356-8506   | rate of systems being compromised would be 
going down,

www.pwpconsult.com | wouldn't it?" -- Marcus Ranum

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Re: [Elecraft] Who's On First?

[Nr4c]

Computer first. (This initializes the com ports)

Then radio. (Radio needs the com ports)

Now the software. (Now that radio has its necessary connections, start the 
software which can now find the radio and other necessary connections. )

Sent from my iPhone
...nr4c. bill


> On Mar 28, 2018, at 1:13 PM, Richard Ferch  wrote:
> 
> That wasn't me, but...the optimum order is computer, then K3, then WSJT-X.
> 
> The reasons: Well, obviously the computer has to come before the software.
> The process of starting up the computer causes various signal lines on the
> serial port used for radio control to be toggled briefly, which can cause
> annoying behaviour at the radio, so it is easier (although not essential)
> to have the computer already running when you start the radio. The WSJT-X
> software expects rig control to be working when it starts, otherwise it
> annoyingly prompts you to reconfigure, and the software won't actually
> start operating properly until the radio is turned on, so it is best to
> have the radio turned on before you start the software.
> 
> 73,
> Rich VE3KI
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Re: [Elecraft] Who's On First?

[Richard Ferch]

That wasn't me, but...the optimum order is computer, then K3, then WSJT-X.

The reasons: Well, obviously the computer has to come before the software.
The process of starting up the computer causes various signal lines on the
serial port used for radio control to be toggled briefly, which can cause
annoying behaviour at the radio, so it is easier (although not essential)
to have the computer already running when you start the radio. The WSJT-X
software expects rig control to be working when it starts, otherwise it
annoyingly prompts you to reconfigure, and the software won't actually
start operating properly until the radio is turned on, so it is best to
have the radio turned on before you start the software.

73,
Rich VE3KI
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