RE: Sal Ammoniac (WAS: [Elecraft] Hakko 808 tips)
Steve, AA4AK wrote: Although it has been a very long time since I've built a Heathkit, I'm pretty sure recalling that Heath had a disclaimer that both acid core solder or a soldering iron cleaned with sal ammoniac would void their warranty. It is enough of a concern that I would not use it on an Elecraft product unless Elecraft says it is OK. As for the harm it might do, I note that another poster has addressed that. -- Thanks, Steve. I agree with your concerns. Elecraft makes specific solder recommendations, and any deviation from those recommendations should only be done with full knowledge of why certain solders are recommended. I wasn't asking about the fumes! That's obvious. Indeed, rosin fumes should not be inhaled either, and as long as we're using solder with lead in it, ALWAYS wash your hands after handling it before picking up food! And wash them anyway because lead migrates through the skin. But the idea of a gas being able to contaminate a surface so that it's not safe to use for soldering later, long after the gas has dissipated - that's what I found odd. Normally the process of cleaning and tinning an iron does not leave any trace of the cleaning agent on the tip after it's done, even if liquids or pastes are used. Indeed, the whole idea is that all that remains on the tip is a thin coat of solder. There are Sal Ammoniac based fluxes that are used in plumbing, and as others pointed out they must NEVER be used for electronic soldering because the flux stays active at room temperature! The beauty of rosin is that it is totally inert at room temperature. Indeed, it's inert until it gets nearly hot enough to melt solder. So the rosin cannot hurt anything (except the aesthetic sensibilities of those who hate to see a little rosin residue) unless the circuit gets hot enough to melt the solder. In that case, I suspect other component failures will exceed any damage the hot rosin could ever do G Along that same line, there are some new fluxes sold specifically for electronic use that are advertised at no clean that are also very dangerous. These fluxes, like acid fluxes used by plumbers and the like, remain active at room temperature. They are sold for use in mass production where the boards are thoroughly washed after soldering to remove the remaining flux immediately. Most of these fluxes are water-soluble so the washing doesn't involve dangerous chemicals, but it's absolutely critical that be done, and done thoroughly and properly. If not, the joints will be eaten through by the flux after a few months, destroying the entire circuit board. The message is that not all 'electronic' solders are safe to use on the bench. Personally, I stick with the lead/tin rosin-core solder, and I've got equipment that I built half a century ago that still functions just fine. I might make the transition, with care, to lead-free solder one day if leaded solder becomes hard to find in the USA. We'll see G. Ron AC7AC ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: Sal Ammoniac (WAS: [Elecraft] Hakko 808 tips)
How about Kester's NO CLEAN ? I used that to build my entire K2 as well as several other kits and 'projects' . The only drawback I noticed is that removing something after it is soldered in place requires a little extra care and time. My solder joints still appear fine after a couple of years anyway. I hope not to wake up one day to find them all eaten through! I didn't do any extra cleaning steps after soldering, that's WHY I bought the NO CLEAN. RonE. Along that same line, there are some new fluxes sold specifically for electronic use that are advertised at no clean that are also very dangerous. These fluxes, like acid fluxes used by plumbers and the like, remain active at room temperature. They are sold for use in mass production where the boards are thoroughly washed after soldering to remove the remaining flux immediately. Most of these fluxes are water-soluble so the washing doesn't involve dangerous chemicals, but it's absolutely critical that be done, and done thoroughly and properly. If not, the joints will be eaten through by the flux after a few months, destroying the entire circuit board. The message is that not all 'electronic' solders are safe to use on the bench. ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: Sal Ammoniac (WAS: [Elecraft] Hakko 808 tips)
Hi Ron: Kester no-clean is just fine! It's only No-Clean' because it uses only 1/1% flux, compared to the 2.2% and 3.3% flus in most 'regular' flux-cored solders. It's 'no-clean' because it leaves minimal residue. 73, Tom N0SS At 09:03 AM 10/8/2005, you wrote: How about Kester's NO CLEAN ? I used that to build my entire K2 as well as several other kits and 'projects' . The only drawback I noticed is that removing something after it is soldered in place requires a little extra care and time. My solder joints still appear fine after a couple of years anyway. I hope not to wake up one day to find them all eaten through! I didn't do any extra cleaning steps after soldering, that's WHY I bought the NO CLEAN. RonE. Along that same line, there are some new fluxes sold specifically for electronic use that are advertised at no clean that are also very dangerous. These fluxes, like acid fluxes used by plumbers and the like, remain active at room temperature. They are sold for use in mass production where the boards are thoroughly washed after soldering to remove the remaining flux immediately. Most of these fluxes are water-soluble so the washing doesn't involve dangerous chemicals, but it's absolutely critical that be done, and done thoroughly and properly. If not, the joints will be eaten through by the flux after a few months, destroying the entire circuit board. The message is that not all 'electronic' solders are safe to use on the bench. ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
RE: Sal Ammoniac (WAS: [Elecraft] Hakko 808 tips)
RonE asked: How about Kester's NO CLEAN ? I used that to build my entire K2 as well as several other kits and 'projects' . The only drawback I noticed is that removing something after it is soldered in place requires a little extra care and time. My solder joints still appear fine after a couple of years anyway. I hope not to wake up one day to find them all eaten through! I didn't do any extra cleaning steps after soldering, that's WHY I bought the NO CLEAN If you're talking about Kester 275 'No Clean', you should be fine. But you bring up an excellent point about trying new products: Check the manufacturer's data sheet! About the 275, Kester says: The 275 residues are non-conductive, non-corrosive and do not require removal in most applications. The flux residues are comparable to a conventional RMA except that the 275 residue is clear and colorless. The data sheet is available on-line at: http://tinyurl.com/7o35n . Compare that statement with their 331 water soluble flux: The 331 flux residue is conductive and may cause corrosion of metal parts over time. I believe that's where some have stumbled - thinking that water soluble would be better than rosin-based fluxes. The world of electronics has changed. How we solder at our benches is not how most soldering is done these days. Various machine techniques are used that solder boards more quickly and reliably, but they do it differently. For example, machine soldering is often followed by a very effective and complete machine washing of the board. In that environment, solders can be used that are absolutely deadly to circuits if used for soldering at the bench without access to proper cleaning facilities. The Kester web site has full info on all of their products at http://www.kester.com. It's important to note where they expect each product to be used, especially if one reads the short marketing blurbs instead of the data sheet. Ron AC7AC ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Sal Ammoniac (WAS: [Elecraft] Hakko 808 tips)
Steve, AA4K wrote: I'd be very reluctant to use a soldering iron tip cleaned with sal ammoniac on electronic equipment. For some manufacturers, it will void the warranty. -- Now that's an interesting thought. What possible harm does a common salt (NH4)Cl do, especially if it's used as a cleaner that is long gone before the iron ever approaches an electronic component, not as a soldering aid. It's been a long time since I fiddled with that strange stuff, but Jerry reminds me that it is an excellent de-oxidizer. One of its interesting properties is that it is NEVER a liquid. It is either a solid or a gas, depending upon the temperature. It's the gas boiling off of the solid material when heated that provides the cleaning action. I've never seen an electronics company that worried about irons that had been cleaned with the stuff, Steve. Please fill us in! Ron AC7AC ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: Sal Ammoniac (WAS: [Elecraft] Hakko 808 tips)
Hi Ron, The sal ammoniac (ammonium chloride) which was widely used back in the days to clean the soldering iron tips is very corrosive agent when heated. Under hight temperature the ammonium chloride breaks down as NH4CL + heat to NH3 (ammonia) and HCL (Hydrocloride, which when solved in water is known as Murratic acid). The HCL does the cleaning of the soldering iron tip and it is an extremly corrosive agent (not to mentioned what will do to your lungs - it turns into murratic acid and can cause swelling, inflamation, etc). Just the vapours and the particles on the soldering iron tip will cause corrosion to the electronics if used during the soldering process. Its OK to clean the iron every once in awhile but its very BAD idea to use it as soldering aid (as flux). On other hand it is used as a component of the flux in the plumbing. 73s KB1FZA - Original Message - From: Ron D'Eau Claire [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Friday, October 07, 2005 10:38 PM Subject: Sal Ammoniac (WAS: [Elecraft] Hakko 808 tips) Steve, AA4K wrote: I'd be very reluctant to use a soldering iron tip cleaned with sal ammoniac on electronic equipment. For some manufacturers, it will void the warranty. -- Now that's an interesting thought. What possible harm does a common salt (NH4)Cl do, especially if it's used as a cleaner that is long gone before the iron ever approaches an electronic component, not as a soldering aid. It's been a long time since I fiddled with that strange stuff, but Jerry reminds me that it is an excellent de-oxidizer. One of its interesting properties is that it is NEVER a liquid. It is either a solid or a gas, depending upon the temperature. It's the gas boiling off of the solid material when heated that provides the cleaning action. I've never seen an electronics company that worried about irons that had been cleaned with the stuff, Steve. Please fill us in! Ron AC7AC ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: Sal Ammoniac (WAS: [Elecraft] Hakko 808 tips)
On Oct 7, 2005, at 7:38 PM, Ron D'Eau Claire wrote: Steve, AA4K wrote: I'd be very reluctant to use a soldering iron tip cleaned with sal ammoniac on electronic equipment. For some manufacturers, it will void the warranty. -- Now that's an interesting thought. What possible harm does a common salt (NH4)Cl do, especially if it's used as a cleaner that is long gone before the iron ever approaches an electronic component, not as a soldering aid. It's been a long time since I fiddled with that strange stuff, but Jerry reminds me that it is an excellent de-oxidizer. One of its interesting properties is that it is NEVER a liquid. It is either a solid or a gas, depending upon the temperature. It's the gas boiling off of the solid material when heated that provides the cleaning action. How sublime (sorry, I couldn't resist). Bob, N7XY ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
