Re: [EM] Fast Condorcet-Kemeny calculation times, clarification of NP-hardness issue

2012-03-31 Thread Kristofer Munsterhjelm

On 03/31/2012 08:24 AM, Richard Fobes wrote:


So, wrapping up this explanation:

If the Condorcet-Kemeny problem were in the field of encryption, then of
course only an exact solution would be relevant.

But the Condorcet-Kemeny problem is an optimization problem -- or it can
be regarded as a sorting problem -- where the goal is to check various
sequences and find the one (or ones in the case of ties) that move the
biggest pairwise counts into the upper-right triangular area of a
matrix, while moving the smallest pairwise counts into the lower-left
triangular area.


I think the argument against that can be quite easily stated like this:

- If there exists an election profile where exhaustive Kemeny gives a 
different result (winner) than VoteFair, then VoteFair isn't Kemeny.
- On the other hand, if there exists no such profile, then VoteFair 
solves an NP-complete problem in the cryptographic sense.


Hence, either VoteFair isn't Kemeny or it proves that P = NP, which 
would be huge.


Now, if you're saying that VoteFair isn't Kemeny but it's close enough 
for all practical purposes, then that's another matter. Or if VoteFair, 
like my integer linear programming implementation, is exponential time 
but the constants mean the actual runtime doesn't become ugly until you 
have 20-30 candidates, then that would also work.



Speaking of which, I'm still looking forward to Warren supplying a
40-candidate or 50-candidate case (as ballot preferences, not pairwise
counts because they might not correlate with a real ranking scenario)
that he thinks would take a long time to calculate, and I'll be happy to
measure the calculation time. And I'll share the sorted pairwise counts
in matrix form so that anyone can visually verify that the full ranking
sequence is correct, and that if there is a deserving winner then that
candidate is correctly ranked in first place.


You can turn any pairwise matrix into a set of preferences. If every 
pairwise count is even and positive, then you just make n/2 people 
having ABCD (for four candidates) and n/2 have ABDC to get a 
pairwise count, for AB, of n. I think you can do similar things for the 
more general case, and if you have equal-rank and truncation, it becomes 
easier still.


The other problem is that I'm not aware of any trapdoor function for 
Kemeny. That is, while Warren can make a 50-candidate case which takes a 
very long time for say, my ILP implementation, there's no way to tell, 
if you answer oh, the ordering is AWXQRDF..., whether that it is 
actually the optimum. If we had a trapdoor function, that'd let us 
generate a hard Kemeny instance where the optimal ordering is already 
known -- and then you could check if you got the same thing out of VoteFair.


So if VoteFair is a good approximation, it might give something with a 
good Kemeny score (just as Ranked Pairs would, or Schulze), but it 
wouldn't give the optimum - and we'd have no way of knowing, short of 
running the hard instance through Kemeny itself and comparing the result.


(The upshot of which, I guess, is that I really should get off my behind 
and do some Monte Carlo to see if I can find a ballot set where VoteFair 
gives a different winner than something I know finds the Kemeny optimum. 
But I've been busy.)



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Re: [EM] Fast Condorcet-Kemeny calculation times, clarification of NP-hardness issue

2012-03-31 Thread Jameson Quinn
2012/3/31, Kristofer Munsterhjelm km_el...@lavabit.com:
 On 03/31/2012 08:24 AM, Richard Fobes wrote:

 So, wrapping up this explanation:

 If the Condorcet-Kemeny problem were in the field of encryption, then of
 course only an exact solution would be relevant.

 But the Condorcet-Kemeny problem is an optimization problem -- or it can
 be regarded as a sorting problem -- where the goal is to check various
 sequences and find the one (or ones in the case of ties) that move the
 biggest pairwise counts into the upper-right triangular area of a
 matrix, while moving the smallest pairwise counts into the lower-left
 triangular area.

 I think the argument against that can be quite easily stated like this:

 - If there exists an election profile where exhaustive Kemeny gives a
 different result (winner) than VoteFair, then VoteFair isn't Kemeny.
 - On the other hand, if there exists no such profile, then VoteFair
 solves an NP-complete problem in the cryptographic sense.

 Hence, either VoteFair isn't Kemeny or it proves that P = NP, which
 would be huge.

Clearly, we must assume the former. In that case, we have two
possibilities for implications.

- VoteFair ≠ Kemeny with some unknown random probability p. In that
case, no matter how low p is, we can basically never trust VoteFair to
be Kemeny.
- There is some significant, knowable portion of the domain where
VoteFair = Kemeny. For instance, VoteFair = Kemeny if the Smith set
has fewer than 10 members or something like that. In that case, we
could consider a Smith set of over 10 members to be comparable to a
tie under a normal polytime voting system, and accept that we'll get
essentially random results in that case.

Since K-Y is independent of Smith-dominated alternatives (ISDA), I
think the latter is more likely to be the case. So, Richard: instead
of making verbal arguments about traveling salesman cases or visual
inspection of matrices, your job is to give a rigorous proof that
VoteFair = Kemeny for a Smith set of up to N candidates, where N4
(the largest suspected Smith set from real-world election/polling
data).

Jameson

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