Re: [EM] Corrections to inaccurate FairVote historical perspective

2013-03-15 Thread Abd ul-Rahman Lomax

At 11:51 AM 3/14/2013, Ralph Suter wrote:
The historical perspective by Abd ul-Rahman 
Lomax posted by Richard Fobes has a number of 
inaccuracies. It is apparently a "top of the 
head" summary based on memories of what others, 
including myself, had written several years ago.


Yes. I just wrote it. I did not go back and review the e-mail from Mr. Suter.

The organization now named FairVote began with a 
two-day organizing meeting (not a conference) of 
about 75 people held in Cincinnati in the spring 
of 1992. Its initial name was Citizens [not 
Center] for Proportional Representation, with an 
exclamation point intentionally included with 
its acronym (CPR!). The name was changed a year 
or so later to Center for Voting and Democracy 
(CVD), then 10 or so years after that to FairVote.


I don't recall seeing that name before, but maybe 
that's just my poor memory. It really doesn't 
matter. The essence of what I wrote is being 
confirmed, but Ralph provides some significant 
new information. My point here, by the way, was 
just to explore an example of how activists take 
over, it's in the nature of activism, as others 
were saying. It is, I believe, possible to avoid 
this hazard *without* sacrificing the energy of 
activists. But it takes a certain kind of initial 
organization, I suspect. And, generally, nobody knows how to do that.


Virtually the entire focus of the 1992 meeting 
was on advocacy of proportional representation. 
Single winner voting was discussed very little.


Right. Single-winner elections guarantee, under 
the *best* of conditions, that up to 50% of the 
voters are not represented. It can easily be 
worse than that! (In San Francisco, RCV (IRV) 
candidates have won with less than 40% of the vote.)


I attended the meeting after having learned 
about it from two articles about the need for PR 
in the US and an announcement/open invitation 
published in In These Times magazine. As I 
recall, they were written or co-written by 
Matthew Cossolotto, the meeting's leading organizer.


The decision to strongly promote Instant Runoff 
Voting (a name that was chosen after a number of 
other names were used or considered), was made 
only several years after the organization was formed.


Yes. That history has been described elsewhere.

The main reasons for promoting IRV rather than 
other single winner methods were initially political.


As I wrote.

The thinking was that it would be much easier to 
sell, as a logical improvement to familiar, 
widely-used runoff elections, than other methods.


And that logic was not widely debated and 
questioned. The decision was made by a small group, as a *political strategy.*


And in any case, CVD's leaders regarded single 
winner reforms as much less important than proportional representation.


Who were they? Further, there may be some set of 
"leaders" who thought that, but activists tend to 
become focused on specific goals, the near-term.


IRV was seen as a kind of "foot-in-the-door" 
reform that could pave the way to much more significant PR reforms.


Yes. It even made a kind of sense, *if* one 
assumes that that PR will use STV. The position 
also missed something important, certainly in the 
history of voting system reform. It missed that 
the *target* had become the most widely-used 
reformed voting method. Reading back over 
political science documents in the early part of 
the last century, runoff voting was considered a 
very important reform. Yes, it has one major 
problem, Center Squeeze, but IRV has the same problem.


I don't think there has ever been much serious 
discussion among the organization's leaders 
about the pros and cons of IRV and other single 
winner methods, though I think it's unfair to 
suggest, as Abd seems to, that they have been 
intentionally deceptive in their arguments favoring IRV.


Well, what I've suggested is not being 
"intentionally deceptive," but being "willfully 
negligent." There are various common arguments 
about IRV that are frequently advanced by 
FairVote, and some of them are highly misleading, 
and if Rob Richie, for one, doesn't know that, 
he's turning away from clear evidence, and we 
have seen that. He's an *activist*, and activists 
argue to win, not to tell the plain truth. His 
career depends on being perceived as successful, 
and it would probably take sophistication that he 
doesn't possess to see how to pursue the 
*original goals* of his organization without 
being deceptive at all. He only needs to be 
deceptive, to suppress what "would only confuse 
people," -- in other words, might risk a lowering 
of support for what he believes is good for ... 
the cause ... because he set a tactical goal that was poorly chosen.


In addition, a leading FairVote advocate of IRV 
(though he first called it "majority 
preferential voting") was John Anderson, the 
1980 independent presidential candidate. 
Anderson published a New York Times op-ed about 
it in July 1992, shortly after the CPR! 
or

Re: [EM] Corrections to inaccurate FairVote historical perspective

2013-03-15 Thread Richard Fobes

On 3/14/2013 4:09 PM, Jonathan Lundell wrote:

Side comment: one of the many problems facing election

> reformers of any stripe in the US is our patchwork of
> election laws and practices, not just across state
> lines, but also within many states. While California
> elections are largely subject to state law, they are
> conducted by county registrars, who, among other
> things, choose the voting machinery used. Local
> jurisdictions who have adopted IRV, say, typically
> are stalled waiting to implement it until their
> county registrar gets around to supporting it.

I agree.  Yet I don't see the Green party (or any third party) working 
to implement the change in the localities where alternatives are 
allowed.  They seem to be leaving that up to the FairVote organization.


In other words, election-method reform does not appear to be a high 
priority for the Green party.



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Re: [EM] Corrections to inaccurate FairVote historical perspective

2013-03-15 Thread Kristofer Munsterhjelm

On 03/14/2013 11:40 PM, Richard Fobes wrote:


Does anyone know of any other political party that uses the
election-method reform that they promote?


The Pirate Party of Sweden uses Schulze for their primaries. They don't 
promote Schulze, though. Since Sweden is parliamentary, there are no 
single-winner elections and so Schulze doesn't apply.


Ideally, the Pirate Party would use Schulze STV internally and also 
promote it for election reform. But that's cherry on the top. I'm not 
going to be annoyed at their use of Schulze simply because they could 
have picked SSTV instead. I just hope their use of ordinary Schulze for 
composing the party list won't lead to too many centrists on the list 
and thus opposition and replacement with some worse but more 
proportional method.




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Re: [EM] Corrections to inaccurate FairVote historical perspective

2013-03-14 Thread Richard Fobes

On 3/14/2013 9:51 AM, Ralph Suter wrote:

...
My own biggest disagreement with FairVote is that it has never, itself,
been a truly democratic organization. At the 1992 founding meeting, I
was under the impression that it would be incorporated as a
member-controlled organization. In fact an initial board of directors
was elected at the meeting using a PR procedure (STV as I recall). Only
several years later did I learn that the organization was incorporated
as a conventional nonprofit organization controlled by a
self-perpetuating board (i.e., the board chooses all new board members).
The initial board was selected by Matthew Cossolotto and the other
incorporators and was not the board elected at the founding meeting. As
a result of how it was incorporated, the organization has never been
open to pressure from members (since it doesn't have any) regarding its
positions on IRV and other issues. [...]


It's insightful that the organizations that claim to support 
election-method reform -- especially the FairVote organization and the 
Green party -- do not elect their own leaders using the election methods 
that they "support."


Real reform will begin when there are political parties that use the 
election methods that they "support."


This is why the Czech Green party is far ahead of other political 
parties.  They have begun to use better election methods in their own 
elections.  Bravo!


Does anyone know of any other political party that uses the 
election-method reform that they promote?


Richard Fobes


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