[Elementary-dev-community] Fwd: Call for translation: Geary 0.2.0

[Daniel Foré]

Hey guys,

The Geary team is looking for translators. It'd be great if we could help them 
out :)

Best Regards,
Daniel Foré

Inicio del mensaje reenviado:

> De: Jim Nelson 
> Fecha: 5 de septiembre de 2012 3:51:19 p.m. PDT
> Para: dan...@elementaryos.org
> Cc: Adam Dingle 
> Asunto: Fwd: Call for translation: Geary 0.2.0
> 
> Hi Daniel,
> 
> I wanted to forward this announcement on to you.  We're at string freeze for 
> Geary 0.2 and are looking for translators.  If you could forward this along 
> to the Elementary crew and supporters it would be most appreciated.  Thanks!
> 
> -- Jim
> 
> -- Forwarded message --
> 
> From: Jim Nelson 
> Subject Call for translation: Geary 0.2.0
> Date: Wed, 05 Sep 2012 22:24:27 -0007
> To: ge...@lists.yorba.org
> Hello all,
> 
> Development on Geary continues apace and version 0.2 of is now in sight.  
> Version 0.2 will be light-years ahead of 0.1 in many ways.  In particular, 
> this version of Geary is internationalized and ready for translation.
> 
> If you'd like to help make Geary available to people worldwide, please 
> consider translating all or part of the application.  Our translatable 
> strings are hosted on Transifex:
> 
> https://www.transifex.com/projects/p/geary/
> 
> You can download Geary's .pot file and translate the strings in your favorite 
> internationalization tool (POEdit, Lokalize, etc.) and submit them back to us 
> via our Transifex project.
> 
> We need translations by Wednesday, 19 September for them to be included in 
> the upcoming release. 
> 
> Thanks for your support!
> 
> -- Jim Nelson
> 
> 
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Re: [Elementary-dev-community] I'll BBIAB

[Andrea Basso]

Oh, I doubt that your absence won't be a problem, you're quite helpful,  
but we'll survive...


Happy staying in New York and... see you when you come back :)

On Wed, 05 Sep 2012 19:42:10 +0200, Sergey "Shnatsel" Davidoff  
 wrote:



Hello everyone,

I'm writing to announce that I won't be as active in elementary  
development

as I used to be for the upcoming month or two. My university wants me
really badly and there's a bunch of other stuff that has piled up and  
can't

be deferred anymore.

My absence shouldn't be much of a problem because elementary already has
more proficient people than me for almost any area. Still, feel free to
email me about relatively small items if you think I'm the best guy to
tackle them.

On an unrelated note, I'll be visiting New York City from 10th to 15th of
October (if all goes as planned, at least). If you live nearby and wish  
to

meet me in person, that can be arranged.

Cheers, Good Luck, Happy Hunting & Hacking, and Have Fun,


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Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Slingshot is nearly beta-ready

[David Gomes]

Another issue is the huge amount of Slingshot branches. I know Voldyman
made a branch fixing an issue, but it probably got lost amongst the other
branches.

Many of these branches aren't rebased with trunk now, so they're helpless
now.

On Tue, Sep 4, 2012 at 3:25 PM, Andrea Basso wrote:

> The week is over. During this time have appeared a couple of bugs, I'm not
> sure they're beta-blockers, but I'd like to fix them before beta1. This
> means that, while I'd wait to release Slingshot, if every app has fixed
> their bugs, Slingshot can be considered ready.
>
> Regards,
> Andrea Basso
>
>
> On Thu, 23 Aug 2012 22:41:16 +0200, Andrea Basso 
> wrote:
>
>  Hi everyone,
>>
>> as you can see here Slingshot has only two open bugs targeted for
>> luna-beta1.
>>
>> I suspect that one of these, 1022210, has already been accidentally fixed
>> by Tom's change in popovers' behavior, since this was linked with Slingshot
>> focus. If anyone running at least revision 249 (which means that if you
>> have latest Slingshot from PPA you have it) has experienced this bug,
>> please write it in the bug report or as an answer to this mail.
>>
>> I've tried to fix the other, 1013836, but with no results. I've actually
>> found a way, but it's quite hackish, so I'd be very glad if someone could
>> try to take a look at it and find a better solution.
>> If, in a week or so, no one will have fixed it, I'll apply the hackish
>> solution.
>>
>> During this week, I encourage everyone to report any beta-stopper bugs
>> you may have found.
>> If none will be filed (or once they'll be fixed), no one reports to have
>> reproduced the first bug and the second is fixed, Slingshot will be
>> released.
>>
>> Thank you for the collaboration,
>> Regards,
>> Andrea Basso
>>
>
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Re: [Elementary-dev-community] I'll BBIAB

[David Gomes]

I wonder why your university wants you badly, but either way, we'll be
missing you Shnatsel.

>Will you still be uploading daily ISO builds? Or able to further
collaborate with nerdshark to finish automating them?
I really wonder about that too...

>My absence shouldn't be much of a problem because elementary already has
more proficient people than me for almost any area.
Don't underestimate yourself shnatsel, you rock! ;)

Enjoy New York!

On Wed, Sep 5, 2012 at 6:42 PM, Sergey "Shnatsel" Davidoff <
ser...@elementaryos.org> wrote:

> Hello everyone,
>
> I'm writing to announce that I won't be as active in elementary
> development as I used to be for the upcoming month or two. My university
> wants me really badly and there's a bunch of other stuff that has piled up
> and can't be deferred anymore.
>
> My absence shouldn't be much of a problem because elementary already has
> more proficient people than me for almost any area. Still, feel free to
> email me about relatively small items if you think I'm the best guy to
> tackle them.
>
> On an unrelated note, I'll be visiting New York City from 10th to 15th of
> October (if all goes as planned, at least). If you live nearby and wish to
> meet me in person, that can be arranged.
>
> Cheers, Good Luck, Happy Hunting & Hacking, and Have Fun,
> --
> Sergey "Shnatsel" Davidoff
> OS architect @ elementary
>
> --
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> Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net
> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community
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>
>
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Re: [Elementary-dev-community] I'll BBIAB

[Cody Garver]

NYC is just as good as Disney World. If anyone in your party smokes
cigarettes, advise them to bring their own. They are very very expensive
there.

Will you still be uploading daily ISO builds? Or able to further
collaborate with nerdshark to finish automating them?

Are you only available for consultation or will you still contribute to
branches?

Small issue for you to tackle: replace switchboard-plug-wallpaper with
switchboard-plug-pantheon-shell

On Wed, Sep 5, 2012 at 12:42 PM, Sergey "Shnatsel" Davidoff <
ser...@elementaryos.org> wrote:

> Hello everyone,
>
> I'm writing to announce that I won't be as active in elementary
> development as I used to be for the upcoming month or two. My university
> wants me really badly and there's a bunch of other stuff that has piled up
> and can't be deferred anymore.
>
> My absence shouldn't be much of a problem because elementary already has
> more proficient people than me for almost any area. Still, feel free to
> email me about relatively small items if you think I'm the best guy to
> tackle them.
>
> On an unrelated note, I'll be visiting New York City from 10th to 15th of
> October (if all goes as planned, at least). If you live nearby and wish to
> meet me in person, that can be arranged.
>
> Cheers, Good Luck, Happy Hunting & Hacking, and Have Fun,
> --
> Sergey "Shnatsel" Davidoff
> OS architect @ elementary
>
> --
> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community
> Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net
> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community
> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>
>


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[Elementary-dev-community] I'll BBIAB

[Sergey "Shnatsel" Davidoff]

Hello everyone,

I'm writing to announce that I won't be as active in elementary development
as I used to be for the upcoming month or two. My university wants me
really badly and there's a bunch of other stuff that has piled up and can't
be deferred anymore.

My absence shouldn't be much of a problem because elementary already has
more proficient people than me for almost any area. Still, feel free to
email me about relatively small items if you think I'm the best guy to
tackle them.

On an unrelated note, I'll be visiting New York City from 10th to 15th of
October (if all goes as planned, at least). If you live nearby and wish to
meet me in person, that can be arranged.

Cheers, Good Luck, Happy Hunting & Hacking, and Have Fun,
-- 
Sergey "Shnatsel" Davidoff
OS architect @ elementary
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Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Developer Environment For Elementary OS

[Sergey "Shnatsel" Davidoff]

2012/9/5 David Gomes 

> >There should be a recommended set of tools for a programmer to begin with.
> Well, we don't have to recommend anything other than elementary OS.
> Recommend using cmake and Vala? No need to recommend those, any new
> developer is forced to use those.
>

Nobody is forced to use Vala or even CMake.


> What "set of tools" are you recommending? I really want to know what
> "libraries" and what "tools" you think would ship with this elementary
> OS Developer Version.
>

Same goes for the SDK metapackage. But I guess it's everything that's
described in the developer guide. SDK can be only discussed in conjunction
with the dev guide IMHO.

Shipping documentation would indeed make it easier for new developers,
> but it's just so easy to install the documentation and the libraries
> that I don't get why it should be done.
>

Looks like it's not easy enough if dedicated OS spins get proposed.


> Regarding text editors, we already ship Scratch (which is more than
> enough) with elementary OS ;)
>

AFAIK Scratch as it is isn't enough for coding. It has the devhelp and
terminal plugins and it's OK for my Gedit/GCC habits, but a real developer
could/should expect a better tool. The good thing about Scratch is that
it's mind-blowingly extensible; it's a base for the work-in-progress Vala
IDE and, going forward, a shared component for a set of language- or even
project-specific IDEs.

-- 
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OS architect @ elementary
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Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Developer Environment For Elementary OS

[David Gomes]

>There should be a recommended set of tools for a programmer to begin with.
Well, we don't have to recommend anything other than elementary OS.
Recommend using cmake and Vala? No need to recommend those, any new
developer is forced to use those.

What "set of tools" are you recommending? I really want to know what
"libraries" and what "tools" you think would ship with this elementary
OS Developer Version.

Shipping documentation would indeed make it easier for new developers,
but it's just so easy to install the documentation and the libraries
that I don't get why it should be done.

I get your idea guys, I just don't see why it's so "good". I mean, one
of the reasons we base elementary OS on Ubuntu is that we have a
package manager with over thirty thousand packages.

Regarding text editors, we already ship Scratch (which is more than
enough) with elementary OS ;)

On 9/4/12, Voldyman  wrote:
> I agree with munchor's dog fooding reference but do not agree with the other
> part.
> When i started contributing to elementary project (which is quite recently
> ;)) i had never done serious linux app development. I came from a mainly web
> and c# for desktop background although after completely moving to linux few
> years ago the c# part had stopped. It was a little hard
> For me to find good tools for development, the guys at #elementary-dev (you
> all) suggested scratch-text-editor which i couldn't you (still can't) so i
> continued using Sublime Text which i had been using for web dev and now i am
> pretty comfortable with it.
>
> There should be a recommended set of tools for a programmer to begin with.
> He/she can later pick up or drop tools according to their preference.
>
> Voldyman
> On 04-Sep-2012, at 11:31 PM, David Gomes  wrote:
>
>> Shipping more packages in my opinion is anti-developping philosophy. Each
>> developer has his own preferred tools. Shipping more text editors, more
>> libraries, etc is just more bloat in my opinion. Ubuntu and its
>> derivatives have enough bloat already, since most of these distributions
>> ship with more than 2000 packages. In my system I have around 1000
>> packages installed, but it came with around 600.
>>
>> Besides, developers should face bugs. It's the best way we can know about
>> them and fix them (see
>> http://elementaryos.org/journal/eating-our-own-dog-food).
>>
>> If you want the libraries needed for developing our software, just use
>> "sudo apt-get source", any developer should know how to get this kind of
>> tools. Using bazaar to branch and build our tools from source is also
>> something our developers must know how to do.
>>
>> This "iso" has no real advantages in my honest opinion.
>>
>> On Tue, Sep 4, 2012 at 6:02 PM, Darcy Brás da Silva
>>  wrote:
>> Today while talking to some fine folks at #elementary-dev that go by the
>> handles of
>> victored and voluntatefaber , I wondered if there was any iso build
>> ready to start working/developing
>> for elementary.
>> Now what would be the advantages of having the extra work on getting
>> this iso out.
>>
>> 1) Errors and bugs can be very damaging to a development environment,
>> which lead to a constant fight wen testing highly unstable
>> packages. This makes the developer hell much bigger since everyone tends
>> to test and run this packages in a somewhat different configuration.
>> In case of failure, the developer then needs re-set the development
>> environment to a known stage. This can be very time consuming,
>> that could be in better use.
>> It would also reduce the potential hidden errors, and the known phrase
>> "That's weird, It works in my machine".
>>
>> 2) Individuals that want to start developing in/for elementary could
>> start right away hacking their way in. And if for some reason they mess
>> up big time,
>> guess what ? The iso is right there, re-install, start fresh.
>>
>> Now I am fully aware that maybe this would be a hard work, and possibly
>> limiting to the fact that having everything shipped, would mean larger
>> iso images
>> which then could be "bad" in terms of upload + updated state of the iso.
>> So another idea to support this view would go towards a "Elementary
>> Developer MetaPackage" that would take care of preparing a nice
>> development environment.
>>
>> Please feel free to contact me, on any elementary subject. I'll be glade
>> to reply as soon as I can.
>>
>> --
>> Darcy Brás da Silva 
>>
>>
>>
>> --
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Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Luna Update

[Daniel Foré]

Thanks for the update Cody! We really are extremely close to beta1. Even if we 
only solved a single bug a day we're gonna get there in a month. So let's kick 
some ass and knock these bugs out :D

Best Regards,
Daniel Foré

El sep 5, 2012, a las 4:08 a.m., Cody Garver  escribió:

> elementary luna-beta1 bugs 5 Sep 2012
> 
> Contractor has 3 bugs
> Files has 6 bugs
> Granite has 1 bug
> Maya has 2 bugs
> Noise has 10 bugs
> LibPantheon has 1 bug
> Pantheon Greeter has 1 bug
> Switchboard has 1 bug
> elementary OS has 6 bugs
> 
> On Fri, Aug 10, 2012 at 4:38 AM, David Gomes  wrote:
> Great Daniel, closer and closer every day! I'm sure the beta milestone will 
> be a success.
> 
> On Thu, Aug 9, 2012 at 9:32 PM, Daniel Foré  wrote:
> Hey everyone,
> 
> Another Luna update! We're SOOO close. As always, the list is here: 
> https://launchpad.net/elementary/+milestone/luna-beta1
> 
> Firstly, I'd like to thank everyone for their hard work and send out a gentle 
> reminder not to reach too far. We're working towards a *beta* milestone. 
> Everything that is essential should be targeted already. Don't let anyone 
> pressure you into targeted new features. Let's get the big blocking bugs 
> knocked out so we can move to the next stage. We've already planned to do a 
> Beta2 milestone and remember that we can always push out new features 
> mid-Luna+1-cycle as well.
> Contractor has 4 bugs
> Files has 5 bugs
> Gala has 2 bugs
> Granite has 6 bugs
> Maya has 3 bugs
> Noise has 12 bugs
> LibPantheon has 1 bug
> Pantheon Greeter has 6 bugs
> Slingshot has 8 bugs
> Switchboard has 4 bugs
> Wingpanel has 1 bug
> If your project is not listed here, that means you have 0 bugs targeted to 
> the Luna Beta1 milestone! I'm sure developers from the above projects would 
> really appreciate it if you would take time to help them achieve their goals 
> for Luna Beta1.
> 
> Thanks again everyone!
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> Daniel Foré
> 
> elementaryos.org
> 
> 
> --
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> 
> 
> --
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> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Cody Garver
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Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Luna Update

[Daniel Foré]

Sergey, I'm cool with that :)

Best Regards,
Daniel Foré

El sep 5, 2012, a las 8:05 a.m., "Sergey \"Shnatsel\" Davidoff" 
 escribió:

> 2012/9/5 Cody Garver 
> elementary luna-beta1 bugs 5 Sep 2012
> 
> Contractor has 3 bugs
> 
> 2 bugs now; I've untargeted 
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/contractor/+bug/1025273 from beta1 because it's 
> not a beta-critical item.
> 
> As far as Contractor goes, 
> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1kjpIHASnkcFnbzFp_Hs5ikeciK_t4YVdZfn4WCKai4c/edit
>  still stands. So maybe we'd better reschedule 
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/contractor/+bug/1004116 to beta2 too since it 
> won't make much difference either and focus on getting an awesome Contractor 
> for beta2. 
> 
> So out of current beta1 list, only 
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/contractor/+bug/1025280 is a blocker.
> 
> -- 
> Sergey "Shnatsel" Davidoff
> OS architect @ elementary
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Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Luna Update

[Sergey "Shnatsel" Davidoff]

2012/9/5 Cody Garver 

> elementary luna-beta1 
> bugs5 Sep 2012
>
> *Contractor* has 3 
> bugs
>

2 bugs now; I've untargeted
https://bugs.launchpad.net/contractor/+bug/1025273 from beta1 because it's
not a beta-critical item.

As far as Contractor goes,
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1kjpIHASnkcFnbzFp_Hs5ikeciK_t4YVdZfn4WCKai4c/editstill
stands. So maybe we'd better reschedule
https://bugs.launchpad.net/contractor/+bug/1004116 to beta2 too since it
won't make much difference either and focus on getting an awesome
Contractor for beta2.

So out of current beta1 list, only
https://bugs.launchpad.net/contractor/+bug/1025280 is a blocker.

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Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Developer Environment For Elementary OS

[Sergey "Shnatsel" Davidoff]

2012/9/5 Darcy Brás da Silva 

> No, I wasn't aware of such blueprints, I guess it's a bit faulty on my
> side on not checking it before other the talking about the idea on IRC.
> I will certainly have a deep look at it. Thanks
>

Discussing it on IRC is fine, and we can't require anybody to look at
blueprints because few people are aware of them or the way they work.

You seem to be describing means of introduction developers to the tools and
libraries they're supposed to use in your last message; I'd rather not
scatter it across such a heavyweight thing as ISO image and collect all the
instructions in one place, which we're kinda doing at the moment (see
https://blueprints.launchpad.net/elementaryweb/+spec/developer-guide). But
again, this is post-Luna stuff, at least as far as "core" developer
involvement goes.

-- 
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Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Luna Update

[Cody Garver]

elementary luna-beta1
bugs5 Sep 2012

*Contractor* has 3 bugs
*Files* has 6 bugs
*Granite *has 1 bug 
*Maya* has 2 bugs 
*Noise* has 10 bugs 
*LibPantheon* has 1
bug
*Pantheon Greeter* has 1
bug
*Switchboard* has 1
bug
*elementary OS* has 6
bugs

On Fri, Aug 10, 2012 at 4:38 AM, David Gomes  wrote:

> Great Daniel, closer and closer every day! I'm sure the beta milestone
> will be a success.
>
> On Thu, Aug 9, 2012 at 9:32 PM, Daniel Foré wrote:
>
>> Hey everyone,
>>
>> Another Luna update! We're SOOO close. As always, the list is here:
>> https://launchpad.net/elementary/+milestone/luna-beta1
>>
>> Firstly, I'd like to thank everyone for their hard work and send out a
>> gentle reminder not to reach too far. We're working towards a *beta*
>> milestone. Everything that is essential should be targeted already. Don't
>> let anyone pressure you into targeted new features. Let's get the big
>> blocking bugs knocked out so we can move to the next stage. We've already
>> planned to do a Beta2 milestone and remember that we can always push out
>> new features mid-Luna+1-cycle as well.
>>
>>- *Contractor* has 4 bugs
>>- *Files* has 5 bugs
>>- *Gala* has 2 bugs
>>- *Granite *has 6 bugs
>>- *Maya* has 3 bugs
>>- *Noise* has 12 bugs
>>- *LibPantheon* has 1 bug
>>- *Pantheon Greeter* has 6 bugs
>>- *Slingshot* has 8 bugs
>>- *Switchboard* has 4 bugs
>>- *Wingpanel *has 1 bug
>>
>> If your project is not listed here, that means you have 0 bugs targeted
>> to the Luna Beta1 milestone! I'm sure developers from the above projects
>> would really appreciate it if you would take time to help them achieve
>> their goals for Luna Beta1.
>>
>> Thanks again everyone!
>>
>> Best Regards,
>>
>> Daniel Foré
>>
>> elementaryos.org
>>
>>
>> --
>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community
>> Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net
>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community
>> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>>
>>
>
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>


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Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Developer Environment For Elementary OS

[Darcy Brás da Silva]

No, I wasn't aware of such blueprints, I guess it's a bit faulty on my
side on not checking it before other the talking about the idea on IRC.
I will certainly have a deep look at it. Thanks
On Tue, 2012-09-04 at 23:46 +0400, Sergey "Shnatsel" Davidoff wrote:

> 
> Now I am fully aware that maybe this would be a hard work, and
> possiblylimiting to the fact that having everything shipped,
> would mean largeriso imageswhich then could be "bad" in terms
> of upload + updated state of the iso.So another idea to
> support this view would go towards a "ElementaryDeveloper
> MetaPackage" that would take care of preparing a nice
> development environment.
> 
> 
> Yep, it's on the radar, see
> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/elementaryos/+spec/dev-metapackage-elementary
>  (and http://elementaryos.org/journal/how-see-what%E2%80%99s-our-sleeves on 
> using blueprints, if you're not familiar with them).
> 
> But first we need an SDK to put into the metapackage, which we
> currently don't have (in a complete or stable state at least). There's
> GrabIt but it's not that great for novice devs anyway and Tom has a
> project creation script, both of which should probably become a part
> of Euclide, our work-in-progress IDE at some point...
> 
> Right now we're too busy with getting Luna out of the door, but I'd
> expect toolset and SDK work to happen right after Luna release.
> 
> If you want the libraries needed for developing our software,
> just use "sudo apt-get source", any developer should know how
> to get this kind of tools. Using bazaar to branch and build
> our tools from source is also something our developers
> must know how to do.
> 
> apt-get source and bzr are by far not the most developer-friendly
> things. In fact, apt-get source has absolutely nothing to do with
> developers at all, and the fact that some people consider it so only
> proves that our toolset is confusing.
> 
> Not to mention that we don't even have an into into all these things,
> yet.
> 
> 
> -- 
> Sergey "Shnatsel" Davidoff
> OS architect @ elementary

-- 
Darcy Brás da Silva 


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Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Developer Environment For Elementary OS

[Darcy Brás da Silva]

Sorry sending the message twice, I think I didn't set my email client to
assume elementary filter as mailing list
and thus was only replying to one individual.

On Tue, 2012-09-04 at 19:01 +0100, David Gomes wrote:
> Shipping more packages in my opinion is anti-developping philosophy.
To start, the idea behind this IS NOT to put into the _main release_ but
rather having a developer environment, something developers would use,
Not the everyday joe (unless he/she/it wanted to).

>  Each developer has his own preferred tools. Shipping more text
> editors, more libraries, etc is just more bloat in my opinion. Ubuntu
> and its derivatives have enough bloat already, since most of these
> distributions ship with more than 2000 packages. In my system I have
> around 1000 packages installed, but it came with around 600.
Who is talking about shipping more text editors ? The way I see it is
quite simple, ship a default bundle, possibly with notes, and core
libraries to develop elementary apps. Nobody is talking about making a
code factory.
Things like offline documentation available maybe even pdf's.
Even a collection of pre-set bookmarks would do a whole lot for someone
that wants to try fixing a bug but has little experience.
Makefile, Cmake, templates that are commented and explained, compiler
ready to use in the version elementary apps are using, alias set to
generate directory structured and so on.

> 
> 
> Besides, developers should face bugs. It's the best way we can know
> about them and fix them (see
> http://elementaryos.org/journal/eating-our-own-dog-food).
I agree with "eating-our-own-dog-food", however i think you are
misinterpreting what it _"really"_ means. 
My perspective of what it means goes more inline with, have elementary
installed on your "home" computer, and use in day to day tasks. That way
one can detect (pains, problems, bugs, that a regular user would
see/feel).

When developing what we want is maximum stability and minimum
interference, so we can accurately debug the software we are developing,
instead of being misguided because of bugs that we are unaware off,
because that actually delays the development speed, and hardens the
debugging process, not to mention that also hides bugs when
mistaken/confused by other source of errors.
> 
> If you want the libraries needed for developing our software, just use
> "sudo apt-get source", any developer should know how to get this kind
Yes any _developer_ ... Remind you that not everyone is already one,
there are quite a few that still want to become one.
>  of tools. Using bazaar to branch and build our tools from source is
> also something our developers must know how to do.
Version control systems tend to be a pain for new comers, and even for
some other experienced developers that don't use the one elementary
uses.
> 
> 
> This "iso" has no real advantages in my honest opinion.
> 
> On Tue, Sep 4, 2012 at 6:02 PM, Darcy Brás da Silva
>  wrote:
> Today while talking to some fine folks at #elementary-dev that
> go by the
> handles of
> victored and voluntatefaber , I wondered if there was any iso
> build
> ready to start working/developing
> for elementary.
> Now what would be the advantages of having the extra work on
> getting
> this iso out.
> 
> 1) Errors and bugs can be very damaging to a development
> environment,
> which lead to a constant fight wen testing highly unstable
> packages. This makes the developer hell much bigger since
> everyone tends
> to test and run this packages in a somewhat different
> configuration.
> In case of failure, the developer then needs re-set the
> development
> environment to a known stage. This can be very time consuming,
> that could be in better use.
> It would also reduce the potential hidden errors, and the
> known phrase
> "That's weird, It works in my machine".
> 
> 2) Individuals that want to start developing in/for elementary
> could
> start right away hacking their way in. And if for some reason
> they mess
> up big time,
> guess what ? The iso is right there, re-install, start fresh.
> 
> Now I am fully aware that maybe this would be a hard work, and
> possibly
> limiting to the fact that having everything shipped, would
> mean larger
> iso images
> which then could be "bad" in terms of upload + updated state
> of the iso.
> So another idea to support this view would go towards a
> "Elementary
> Developer MetaPackage" that would take care of preparing a
> nice
> development environment.
> 
> Please feel free to contact me, on any elementary subject.
> I'll be glade
> to reply as soon as I can.
> 
>