Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Other languages? (Was Re: Congratulations Luna developers!)

[Jakob Eriksson]

Then there is an education / PR problem on the elementary.org page.

It should be made clear how to make a HIG compliant app in any (where
any=C++, hehe) language.



On 2013-08-21 23:32, Albert Palacios Jimenez wrote:
> 
> I think there are some misunderstandings:
> 
> - The HIG is a must for core elementary OS applications but a recommendation 
> for third party ones.
> 
> - If you develop your application using a Model/View/Controller schema, it 
> will be easy to make it look like an elementary OS just changing the View and 
> leaving the original sources for Models and Controllers.
> 
> This is why a lot of applications work across different systems, they get the 
> "view/look" from the core libraries and work with a non "core" language.
> 
> This is an appropriate way of developing applications, it works well not only 
> for Linux but also for OSX, Windows, iOS, Android, ...
> 


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Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Other languages? (Was Re: Congratulations Luna developers!)

[Jakob Eriksson]

On 2013-08-21 23:20, Albert Palacios Jimenez wrote:
> 
> You can find non Vala applications at the software center, you can sell 
> applications written in "whatever" language as long as they run properly.
> 
> It is just that you application won't benefit of the Elementary + Granite + 
> Vala ecosystem. It will probably look ugly and less appealing to your 
> potential customers.
> 


Is the mission to spread Vala or Elementary?
As long as apps with the "Elementary feeling" can only be done in Vala,
few third party developers will catch the train.

Also what is "properly"? Will apps with substandard and ugly behaviour
which does not follow the HIG be allowed in the software center?

--jakob


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Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Other languages? (Was Re: Congratulations Luna developers!)

[Jakob Eriksson]

On 2013-08-21 22:59, A. "Xylon" V. wrote:
> The thing about vala is that its simple enough to learn, but is still very
> powerful and is extremely fast. The best thing is that it was made for Gtk,
> which is perfect for elementary.
> 
> More languages would mean that we wouldn't have unity across the
> applications - I do however, think that this would attract developers,
> especially since vala does not have very good tutorials, or books.

That is an understatement. Not having support for other languages is
sort of insane.

Scenario:

I am a developer. I develop an application for Windows and, against
commercial reason, make a Linux version of it too. It's coded in a mix
of C++ and Python.

I think Elementary is just fantastic, so just out of love I want to make
my Linux app an Elementary version. I read the HIG and love it.

Then I go to http://elementaryos.org/docs/code on the FIRST page I read:

"If you're not familiar with Vala, we highly encourage you to brush up
on it before coming here."

Sorry say what? No, not going to happen. I can't redo my app in Vala,
even if I wanted to, because that means I can't run it on Windows. (Or
OSX, or iOS.)


The dev page should read something like "for Elementary core apps we use
Vala as a programming language. If you want to create your own
Elementary apps, we encourage you to try out Vala, which is a fantastic
language. If you want to use another language, that's fine too. Here are
example Hello World Elementary apps written in C++, Objective C, Python
and Ruby."


--jakob

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Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Congratulations Luna developers!

[Jakob Eriksson]

But yes, GUI automatic tests are notoriously much harder to automate
fully, but you can often test a basic level automatically.



On 2013-08-21 22:54, Jaap Broekhuizen wrote:
> You can do that using behaviour driven testing tools. For example in python
> webdevelopment I use pytest and pytest-bdd in combination with splinter and
> Firefox.
> 

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[Elementary-dev-community] Other languages? (Was Re: Congratulations Luna developers!)

[Jakob Eriksson]

On 2013-08-21 22:35, Kurt Smolderen wrote:

> look at the code. As Vala is currently missing a decent IDE (such as
> Eclipse,...) and debugging isn't as easy due to the fact the code is
> translated into C, its often very difficult to analyse the flow of a
> program. Available tests might help this initial contributors with


And when will it be "blessed" to create Elementary apps in another
language than Vala? If Elementary would "open up" to other languages,
we could REALLY see increased productivity and more contributors.
IMHO Objective C, C++ and maybe even Java via GCJ would be the obvious
candidates.

--jakob


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Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Congratulations Luna developers!

[Jakob Eriksson]

Which is barely, if at all, relevant to what Craig wrote about.


On 2013-08-18 19:44, A. "Xylon" V. wrote:
> I believe Dan wanted to release Luna+1 AKA Isis at around the same time as
> Ubuntu 14.04
> On Aug 18, 2013 6:41 PM, "Craig"  wrote:
> 

[snip legit worries about the maximum code size a team of a given size can
support]

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Re: [Elementary-dev-community] New GtkSwitch image

[Jakob Eriksson]

Indeed, checkboxes always worked for me too.

On May 24, 2013 at 9:00 PM Craig  wrote:
> Checkboxes always worked for me. I don't think the touchscreen revolution
> is responsible for the transition to switches (a checkbox is no less user
> friendly than a switch afaik).

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Re: [Elementary-dev-community] New GtkSwitch image

[Jakob Eriksson]

Which I find incredibly confusing, at least on iOS.
More than once I have misread it for its opposite.

(It doesn't help that it seems to be pretty hard to "get
a hold of" on iPhone, but that is another matter.

I am not very fond of Xylons idea or skeumorphic stuff
in general. To me the whole idea of skeumorphic is a
false dicomoty between the "real" world and the "computer"
world. Increasingly, the "real" world is computer
controlled or interacts with computer interfaces.

To a child born now, a picture of a light bulb is almost
as quaint and old as a picture of kerosene lamp.

There is no "skeumorphic". There is only "familiarity"
(from any kind of experience) and "clarity".

We can draw on familiarity, but only so far. When
familiarity, we need at least clarity. So whatever
we do, we should make it very clear that there is a
difference.

Since we talk about the ON/OFF button, we could hint
not only with the button itself, but we could strike
out the text describing the option we are turning off,
or making the text gray, or any number of things.

I started this mini-rant because I got worked up when
someone brought the iOS on/off widget as an example
of good design. It's not horrible, but it's far from
good.


The iOS interface in general and as a whole, I think,
is pretty good.
But it's not because it's skeumorphic, but rather
because it is coherently designed and has few ways
to interact with it, easily learned. Two year olds
master the GUI and it's not because the draw on their
knowledge of spiral bound note books and other
"skeumorphic" interface hints.

Also the iOS interface absolutely *depends* on the
input touch digitizer being very good. The iOS interface
would be utterly *useless* on some of the low resolution,
both in dpi and sample rate, many of the cheaper
Android phones use. An aspect often overlooked in UI
design, IMHO.

On the desktop we thankfully have a very high speed,
high resolution input device called "the mouse".
On the other, do we account for people with cheap laptops
and really bad (too sensitive? dirty? small?) touchpad
input devices?

Is our interface great with those input devices too?




On May 24, 2013 at 5:36 PM "Alfredo Hernández" 
wrote:
> The one implemented in elementary OS, iOS, GNOME, OS X, Android...  The
> on/off switcher is becoming a new standard since touch devices started
> becoming a new frontier for UX design.
> "It has become a standard in modern operating systems"
>
> Ehem...this is me being stupid, but what is the standard switch in current
> modern operating systems anyway?
>
>
> On 24 May 2013 15:15, Alfredo Hernández  wrote:
>
> > The current one is clear enough and It has become a standard in modern
> > operating systems. I don't see the need to change it.
> >
> > Regards.
> > On 24 May 2013 13:09, "A. "Xylon" V."  wrote:
> >
> >> I have an idea for a new GtkSwitch image in the eGtk theme. See the
> >> attached file.
> >>
> >> This new GtkSwitch is skeuomorphic, and more intuitive from a user's POV
> >> (I think anyway). The user can immediately tell what to do, as they can
> >> relate to a light switch in real life, and therefore know the clicking on
> >> it will turn the option on/off. This is not as obvious in the current
> >> switch.
> >>
> >> However, I am not sure if this is possible to implement in Gtk3 css.
> >>
> >> --
> >> My blog, yeaaah! 
> >>
> >> --
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> >>
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Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Vala/Go

[Jakob Eriksson]

I think there should be a tutorial for writing an Elementary HID compliant app 
in all popular languages,  Java, Python, C++, Go, Objective C and Ruby at 
least. 

Craig  skrev:

>@Chris, Syntactically, I think Vala is a great language. I'm dying to use
>it, in fact! However, until I can get over the nasty project-management
>hump, I'm afraid I'm out of the loop. And don't think project management
>features are useful only to building and distribution. How can an IDE know
>which symbols are available outside of the current file (for purposes such
>as code verification, autocompletion, etc) without knowing something about
>what files are available to the project? Decent project management features
>are an important aspect of a language (for all kinds of purposes), and when
>they are missing, non-standard, or overly complex; it makes the language
>impractical.
>
>@Sergey, I'm not confusing the two. As I mentioned in my response to Chris,
>the two issues are linked--it's impractical to develop an application
>without a simple, automatic project metadata management tool and Vala
>doesn't seem to have one (I can't find _any_ information about bake online).
>
>To address your last paragraph, I don't know what the crux of the issue is
>(nor what the best solution is), but useful programs haven't been single
>files for decades; it's archaic to treat the project management concerns of
>development as an afterthought when developing languages. Like you said,
>why expose the developer to that unnecessary complexity? I have yet to find
>a better paradigm than Go's for mitigating that concern.
>
>
>On Mon, Apr 8, 2013 at 9:07 AM, Ryan Macnish wrote:
>
>> Go is brilliant, it has the best parts of c and the best parts of modern
>> languages built in.
>> On Apr 8, 2013 9:22 PM, "Craig"  wrote:
>>
>>> Happy Monday everyone,
>>>
>>> I wrote a brief comparison of Vala and Go (golang) that might be of
>>> interest to some of you. Feel free to add your thoughts in the comments.
>>> http://craigmatthewweber.com/2013/04/06/vala-or-go/
>>>
>>> Enjoy,
>>> Craig
>>>
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>>>
>
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Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Pantheon Calculator

[Jakob Eriksson]

All apps should look similar. 

Andrea Basso  skrev:

>Personally I'm opposed to this. I find pantheon-calculator too basic, I
>understand we aim at simplicity, but it's really lacking many basic
>features. And while it surely looks better than gnome-calculator as a
>standalone app, I don't find it elementarish at all, it's completely
>different from every other app. Besides, at this point in the development
>cycle, we should not add new features, let alone new apps.
>
>Andrea "voluntatefaber" Basso
>
>On Sun, Mar 3, 2013 at 11:07 PM, Daniel Fore wrote:
>
>> I think the weirdest thing about Pantheon-Calculator now is that there's
>> not really a good reason for it to be all custom cairo (which, IIRC, it
>> is). We could have it be just as sexy in GTK3.
>>
>> Thoughts?
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Mar 3, 2013 at 1:38 PM, Alfredo Hernández <
>> aldomann.desi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Whenever I need complex calculations, I use advanced mathematical
>> software. I agree, Pantheon Calculator is a good piece of software and fits
>> perfectly with elementary OS' philosophy; it should be the default
>> calculation software on eOS.
>>
>> Regards, Alfredo.
>> On 3 Mar 2013 22:35, "David Gomes"  wrote:
>>
>>> Hello there,
>>>
>>> Mario just proposed to merge a branch to lp:pantheon-calculator that
>>> fixes the close button bug and we are now wondering why Pantheon Calculator
>>> isn't the default calculator on elementary OS.
>>>
>>> Yes, Gnome Calculator has more features, but most users (in our target
>>> audience) only need to make simple additions, subtractions and whatnot.
>>> Plus, Gnome Calculator isn't nearly as *sexy* as Pantheon Calculator.
>>>
>>> With this fix, we believe we can ship Pantheon Calculator. If more fixes
>>> are necessary, I'm sure they can be made. What's your opinion on this
>>> matter?
>>>
>>> David "Munchor" Gomes
>>>
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Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Application names

[Jakob Eriksson]

Ha, fail "please read first ".  He should just have let her figure it out. Many 
UI problems there. 

piggy classy  skrev:

>Guys? Take a look?
>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULblsnv48WM
>
>Seems that the names of the applications are confusing new users.
>
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Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Elementary OS beta 1 featured on my youtube channel.

[Jakob Eriksson]

Funny, I feel exactly the opposite. Firefox, Chrome etc are strong brands.
Trying to compete with such
a strong brand, with another "Midori" is just not possible.

"Internet" or "Web" on the other hand are sort of brands of the world in and
of themselves.
We should cash in on that instead of fighting an up hill battle.


best regards,
Jakob



On December 11, 2012 at 7:45 AM "Daniel Foré"  wrote:
> Midori is the only default app that I still feel we shouldn't give a generic
> name. People already feel like it's not a "real" browser because they
> haven't heard of it. Calling it a generic name would only add to that
> problem, IMHO.
>
> Best Regards,
> Daniel Foré
>
> El dic 10, 2012, a las 2:50 p.m., Alfredo Hernández
>  escribió:
>
> > I, personally, prefer Internet over Web, it's clear and it doesn't make me
> > think about Internet Explorer.
> >
> > El 10/12/2012 23:03, "Sam Tate"  escribió:
> >> I'm all for generic names. It's much nicer for users, and feels better. I
> >> mean "Internet" or "Web" is much nicer to me than "Midori".
> >>
> >> On 10 Dec 2012 11:52, "Sergey "Shnatsel" Davidoff"
> >>  wrote:
> >>> 2012/12/10 Victor Eduardo :
> >>> > Wow, that video was absolutely worth watching. It proves that generic
> >>> > names
> >>> > are better in the eyes of new users, and fit more into how elementary
> >>> > is
> >>> > perceived.
> >>>
> >>> Technically, one test doesn't prove anything (probability theory and
> >>> stuff), but I agree the results are very useful and valuable. User
> >>> testing is very important, and grassroots user testing is the only one
> >>> we can get right now.
> >>>
> >>> Thanks a lot to Philip and his mum for carrying out the testing!
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> Sergey "Shnatsel" Davidoff
> >>> OS architect @ elementary
> >>>
> >>> --
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Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Power plug is finished!

[Jakob Eriksson]

That is logical to you because you KNOW that it it's represented by zer0. 

On 09/29/2012 08:41:04 PM, elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net wrote:
>[1]http://ubuntuone.com/1Dv5NolTPVjqRYDyd6Pfqa 
> 
>HarvKitty says to add a "Never" label to the right end of the 
> scale... 
> 
>It doesn't make sense to me, "Never" is represents by zero (0) so 
> i believe it must be at the start of the scale... 
> 
>@Dan what do you think? 
>2012/9/28 Chris Triantafillis <[2]christriant1...@gmail.com> 
> 
>  So i should re-write the UI? 
> 
>I'll try to add the LevelBar thing also 
>2012/9/28 Daniel Foré <[3]dan...@elementaryos.org> 
> 
>  Very nice! Definitely like Harvey's mockup. Looks super slick 
> :D The alignment here is just beautiful haha 
> 
>I agree the labels at the bottom could be kind of funny sounding 
> "Press the power button to do nothing." haha. 
> 
>Maybe we should go with "When the power button is pressed:" Ask 
> me, Do nothing, Shutdown? 
>On Fri, Sep 28, 2012 at 4:39 AM, Chris Triantafillis 
> <[4]christriant1...@gmail.com> wrote: 
> 
>  the labels can be changed! 
> 
>2012/9/28 Pim Vullers <[5]p...@vullersmail.nl> 
> 
>  I like it as well, only the last entries will read a bit 
> strange when 
>  you choose a 'Do nothing' option. Furthermore the top buttons 
> to switch 
>  power mode look a bit strange to me... it is not entirely clear 
> how it 
>  works. 
> 
>On 09/28/2012 01:26 PM, Chris Triantafillis wrote: 
>> I like it! What others have to say? 
> 
>> 2012/9/28 Harvey Cabaguio <[6]harveycabag...@gmail.com 
> 
>  > > 
> 
>> Â  Â  Made a mock of the power plug. Â 
> [8]http://i.imgur.com/JbbrY.png 
> 
>> Â  Â  On Wed, Sep 26, 2012 at 3:13 PM, Cody Garver 
> <[9]codygar...@gmail.com 
> 
>> Â  Â  > wrote: 
> 
>> Â  Â  Â  Â  Hey dkotrada, we still have not made the plugs 
> available for 
>> Â  Â  Â  Â  translation by you guys. It should happen within a 
> week if 
>> Â  Â  Â  Â  things go well. 
> 
>> Â  Â  Â  Â  On Wed, Sep 26, 2012 at 5:40 AM, dkotrada 
> <[11]dkotr...@gmail.com 
> 
>> Â  Â  Â  Â  > wrote: 
> 
>> Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Launchpad Status from 
> [13]http://identi.ca/launchpadstatus 
> 
>> Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  We are currently experiencing some issues 
> with translations 
>> Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  imports, 
>> Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  and it is currently being looked into 
> 
>> Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Can't get translations for power plug. 
> 
>> Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  2012/9/26 Chris Triantafillis 
> <[14]christriant1...@gmail.com 
> 
>  > Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  >: 
> 
>> Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  > Hm...i don't know... 
>> Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  > Lets see what the others have to say... 
>> Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  > 
>> Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  > 
>> Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  > 2012/9/26 Sergey "Shnatsel" Davidoff 
> 
>  > Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  <[16]ser...@elementaryos.org 
> > 
> 
>> Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  >> 
>> Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  >> I have two laptops that have two 
> batteries: a regular one 
>> Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  and an add-on 
>> Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  >> battery that's purchased separately or 
> with an extension 
>> Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  dock. But they both 
>> Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  >> power the laptop, and I have to know 
> what's going on with 
>> Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  both. I don't 
>> Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  >> remember how Ubuntu displays that though, 
> because the 
>> Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  laptops are old and 
>> Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  >> internal batteries are long dead. 
>> Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  >> 
>> Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  >> Mice also may have batteries and report 
> their status to 
>> Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  the PC AFAIK, but 
>> Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  >> I think an indicator is sufficient to 
> display that. 
>> Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  >> 
>> Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  >> 
>> Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  >> 2012/9/26 Chris Triantafillis 
> <[18]christriant1...@gmail.com 
> 
>  > Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  > 
> 
>> Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  >>> 
>> Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  >>> What do you mean? Like PC's battery and 
> phone's battery 
>> Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  when charging? 
>> Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  >>> for example... 
>> Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  >>> 
>> Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  >>> We can only show PC's battery, can we? 
>> Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  >>> 
>> Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  >>> 
>> Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  >>> 2012/9/26 Sergey "Shnatsel" Davidoff 
> 
>  > Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  <[20]ser...@elementaryos.org 
> > 
> 
>> Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â   
>> Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â   That's going to be complicated because 
> there might be 
>> Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  several batteries 
>> Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â   in the system. 
>> Â  Â  Â  Â  Â 

Re: [Elementary-dev-community] [Elementary-translators] Add the 8 most popular language packs to the ISO image

[Jakob Eriksson]

Ok, not exactly +1, but +0.5

I have failed several times and fell back on CD.



On September 24, 2012 at 4:25 PM Craig  wrote:
> I have never successfully made a live USB. I'm sure it's easy once you
> learn how to do it, but until it's foolproof, I think CD is the way to go.
> Moreover, a size limit does us to get rid of unnecessary bloat.
> On Sep 24, 2012 9:06 AM, "Chris Triantafillis" 
> wrote:
>
> > My opinion is that we should increase the size limit and encourage people
> > use USB rather than CD...
> > CD is harmfull for the enviroment too...
> >
> > 2012/9/24 Daniel Foré 
> >
> >> Alrighty, well if we think it'll fit, I'm down with adding more
> >> languages.
> >>
> >> Best Regards,
> >> Daniel Foré
> >>
> >> El sep 23, 2012, a las 10:50 p.m., Eduard Gotwig 
> >> escribió:
> >>
> >> Daniel Fore:
> >>
> >> The stuff gets compressed with squashfs to like 1/3 of the original
> >> size.That means around 46/47 MB.
> >>
> >> 2012/9/23 Daniel Foré 
> >>
> >>> Currently we want to fit on a CD, so 700MB
> >>>
> >>> Best Regards,
> >>> Daniel Foré
> >>>
> >>> El sep 23, 2012, a las 12:32 p.m., Chris Triantafillis <
> >>> christriant1...@gmail.com> escribió:
> >>>
> >>>  What is the size limit?
> >>>
> >>> 2012/9/23 Daniel Foré 
> >>>
>  Sounds like we really don't have room for that. We have room for 50
>  more MB. So maybe we can choose like 3?
> 
>  Best Regards,
>  Daniel Foré
> 
>  El sep 23, 2012, a las 12:25 p.m., Eduard Gotwig <
>  eduardgot...@gmail.com> escribió:
> 
>  I included here Russian as well, couse its used quite often:
> >
> > 140 MB are going to be used after this operation by apt-get : sudo
> > apt-get --no-install-recommends --download-only install
> > language-pack-gnome-pl  language-pack-gnome-es language-pack-gnome-it
> > language-pack-gnome-ru language-pack-gnome-nl language-pack-gnome-fr
> > language-pack-gnome-pt language-pack-gnome-de language-pack-gnome-en
> >
> > When someone wants to test that, go for it and include it in your
> > custom build with congrego ;)
> >
> >
> > 2012/9/23 Craig 
> >
> >> I think American English is pretty standard in computing, even
> >> internationally. Not that it will be a serious impediment d either
> >> way.
> >> On Sep 23, 2012 1:28 PM, "David Gomes" 
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> First of all, English and Portuguese will be a problem. How can we
> >>> decide which "version" of English and Portuguese to include? Sure,
> >>> Portuguese is one of the most spoken languages in the world, but
> >>> it's not
> >>> because of the roughly 10 million inhabitants of Portugal, it's more
> >>> due to
> >>> the 200 million inhabitants of Brazil. So, we'd probably include
> >>> Brazillian
> >>> Portuguese.
> >>>
> >>> But English would be harder. There are more Americans than British,
> >>> but a lot of people are anti-American English or so.
> >>>
> >>> The whole move of including 8 languages. I'm not sure, I'd like to
> >>> know how much space that is.
> >>>
> >>> David "Munchor" Gomes
> >>>
> >>> On Sun, Sep 23, 2012 at 7:21 PM, Eduard Gotwig <
> >>> eduardgot...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>
> 
> 
>  2012/9/23 Eduard Gotwig 
> 
> > Hey,
> >
> > I think about if we can add the 8 most popular languagee packs for
> > GNOME to the ISO image? There is still space left.
> >
> > These 8 languages should be the ones, that are available on our
> > new website:
> >
> >
> >- [image: English]English
> >- [image: Français]Français
> >- [image: Deutsch]Deutsch
> >- [image: Italiano]Italiano
> >- [image: Español]Español
> >- [image: Português]Português
> >- [image: Polski]Polski
> >- [image: Nederlands]Nederlands
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > We cant include all, becouse they take too much space I guess.
> >
> 
> 
>  --
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>  Post to : elementary-translat...@lists.launchpad.net
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> 
> 
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community
> >>> Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net
> >>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community
> >>> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
> >>>
> >>>
> >
> >
>  --
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>  Po

Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Running App Indicators

[Jakob Eriksson]

+1 on this and +1 on de-branded names on apps.




On September 19, 2012 at 8:00 PM Sam Tate  wrote:

> In the long run (L+1 or even L+2), I want there to be no difference between
> an open and closed app

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[Elementary-dev-community] Bikeshedding about parentheses (Was: Re: Coding Style parentheses exception)

[Jakob Eriksson]

This discussion is veering off into Bikeshedding.

I will now rescue it:

- A commit hook which formats source code on commit, is the ONLY way to
have a followed formatting policy.

Any other approach will result in nothing but bikeshedding, or worse, flame
wars.

best regards,
Jakob



On September 13, 2012 at 11:42 PM Daniel Fore  wrote:

> Not that I do a lot of coding, but I'm +1 on the "((" exception. It looks
> much more readable imho.
>
> On Thu, Sep 13, 2012 at 10:45 AM, Sergey Shnatsel Davidoff
>  wrote:
> IMHO we should keep the style comprehensible and easy to remember. Maybe
> that way we'll manage to actually follow it.
>
> If you're willing to put a lot of time into developing the coding style, I
> can suggest reading the relevant Code Craft chapter first (I can lend a copy
> of the book if you don't have it handy).
>
> I can't +1 or -1 because I don't code in Vala, but in BASH and Python I use
> both "( (" and "((", depending on readability of the content. I wouldn't be
> able to keep all those little rules in mind, I guess.
>
> --
> Sergey "Shnatsel" Davidoff
> OS architect @ elementary
>

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Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Design input on bug 1045511

[Jakob Eriksson]

I think we are bikeshedding :-)

David Gomes  skrev:

>The tools are already here. Just open dconf-editor and you can easily
>change the palette scheme of the terminal.
>
>*Right now*, we want to focus on making pantheon-terminal ready so that we
>can release Luna. The Gnome Terminal scheme is pretty good and our
>designers don't really have the time to work on a brand new color scheme.
>Voldyman suggested we use Tango. Tango looks good.
>
>Also, I think we're overestimating the importance of the terminal color
>scheme...
>
>On Tue, Sep 11, 2012 at 1:20 PM, Darcy Brás da Silva <
>dardeve...@cidadecool.com> wrote:
>
>> Sorry but I completely disagree. This also would mean that later down
>> the road if we decide to change visual schemes on the project the tools
>> were already there.
>> Also the whole point of Elementary is Bring a new User Experience (the
>> way I see it at least)... Else why would we create pantheon-terminal...
>> Sticking to a tested tool like gnome-terminal would have been a wiser
>> choice if the point is to _have_ what people are _used__to__ 
>>
>> On Tue, 2012-09-11 at 13:00 +0100, David Gomes wrote:
>> > That sounds way too complex when compared to just using Gnome's scheme
>> > (to the which people are used).
>> >
>> > On Tue, Sep 11, 2012 at 12:37 PM, Darcy Brás da Silva
>> >  wrote:
>> > Yes, definitely it does look pretty bad... So, ideas for the
>> > fix... What
>> > about some kind of filter on issued commands, that way each
>> > app could
>> > *temporarily* change it's color scheme and we could keep our
>> > current
>> > theme, and just _fix and maybe even improve those that fail
>> > miserably ...
>> > I know some work would be required, but in overall i don't
>> > think would
>> > be extremely difficult. It would be a matter of keeping a list
>> > of known
>> > names (exceptions like aptitude) and check the argument that
>> > is going to
>> > be executed... How does that sound to you guys ?
>> >
>> > On Tue, 2012-09-11 at 12:19 +0100, David Gomes wrote:
>> > > https://launchpadlibrarian.net/115431046/screenshot.png
>> > >
>> > > The bug report just posted that picture, it looks pretty
>> > bad.
>> > >
>> > > On Tue, Sep 11, 2012 at 9:04 AM, dkotrada
>> >  wrote:
>> > > +1
>> > >
>> > > 2012/9/10 Darcy Brás da Silva
>> > :
>> > > > I think we should first look at some kind of print
>> > screen,
>> > > because the
>> > > > current color scheme is most likely the best
>> > 'default' I
>> > > have found. And
>> > > > note that I program with emacs -nw mode, so
>> > readability is
>> > > definitely a
>> > > > concern to me.
>> > > > PS: some packages can be installed that alter the
>> > color
>> > > scheme of
>> > > > certain programs, not quite sure if there isn't
>> > something
>> > > like that on
>> > > > the system were the bug was detected.
>> > > >
>> > > > On Mon, 2012-09-10 at 15:07 +0100, David Gomes
>> > wrote:
>> > > >> I need some design input on this bug:
>> > > >>
>> > https://bugs.launchpad.net/pantheon-terminal/+bug/1045511
>> > > >>
>> > > >> If our color scheme is not working alright, we
>> > need to use
>> > > Gnome
>> > > >> Terminal's color scheme, and if we do need to
>> > change the
>> > > color scheme,
>> > > >> I think it should be done in time for Luna, hence
>> > I'm
>> > > asking for your
>> > > >> help guys.
>> > > >>
>> > > >> Thanks,
>> > > >> David (Munchor)
>> > > >
>> > > > --
>> > > > Darcy Brás da Silva 
>> > > >
>> > >
>> > > > --
>> > > > Mailing list:
>> > > https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community
>> > > > Post to :
>> > elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net
>> > > > Unsubscribe :
>> > > https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community
>> > > > More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>> > > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Darcy Brás da Silva 
>> >
>> >
>>
>> --
>> Darcy Brás da Silva 
>>
>
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Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Design input on bug 1045511

[Jakob Eriksson]

Am I totally off base here, but isn't http://ethanschoonover.com/solarized
just awesome?

best regards,
Jakob


On September 10, 2012 at 4:14 PM Cody Garver  wrote:

> I think it's best to switch to gnome-terminal scheme and wishlist 1045511
> until a designer gets time to think of something considering how busy
> everyone is right now.
>
> On Mon, Sep 10, 2012 at 9:07 AM, David Gomes  wrote:
>
> > I need some design input on this bug:
> > https://bugs.launchpad.net/pantheon-terminal/+bug/1045511
> >
> > If our color scheme is not working alright, we need to use Gnome
> > Terminal's color scheme, and if we do need to change the color scheme, I
> > think it should be done in time for Luna, hence I'm asking for your help
> > guys.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > David (Munchor)
> >
> > --
> > Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community
> > Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net
> > Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community
> > More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Cody Garver

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Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Developer Environment For Elementary OS

[Jakob Eriksson]

Agreed!

Most of the current developers are, I suspect, seasoned programmers, but we
have the opportunity to attract new programmers too and starting kit would be
a nice guidance saying "with these tools you can't stray too far off".


best regards,
Jakob


On September 4, 2012 at 8:51 PM Voldyman  wrote:

> I agree with munchor's dog fooding reference but do not agree with the other
> part.
> When i started contributing to elementary project (which is quite recently
> ;)) i had never done serious linux app development. I came from a mainly web
> and c# for desktop background although after completely moving to linux few
> years ago the c# part had stopped. It was a little hard
> For me to find good tools for development, the guys at #elementary-dev (you
> all) suggested scratch-text-editor which i couldn't you (still can't) so i
> continued using Sublime Text which i had been using for web dev and now i am
> pretty comfortable with it.
>
> There should be a recommended set of tools for a programmer to begin with.
> He/she can later pick up or drop tools according to their preference.
>

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Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Let's make a copypasta collection

[Jakob Eriksson]

But it can be spun differently:   "we are glad to see we are in good company
with our design decisions" kind of style. We could use some free publicity.





On August 23, 2012 at 6:19 AM "satch...@gmail.com"  wrote:

> I agree with Daniel on all counts. It will sound desperate. However, a lot
> of accusations are inevitably going to be levelled at elementary,
> especially as it gets bigger, and a friendly Journal posts on how people
> build on others' work, standing on the shoulders of giants, etc etc will
> make fending them off easier.
>
> On 23 August 2012 04:19, David Gomes  wrote:
>
> > Everybody copies everybody. This is how science evolves. That is why I
> > hate proprietary software. If you make such a selection for fun and we
> > keep
> > it internal, it's cool, but if we post it on the Journal or something, it
> > will make us look like an evil company such as Pear.
> >
> > On Wed, Aug 22, 2012 at 8:50 PM, Sergey "Shnatsel" Davidoff <
> > ser...@elementaryos.org> wrote:
> >
> >> Hey guys,
> >>
> >> With Chrome OS adopting Slingshot design in the stable channel now (
> >> http://chrome.blogspot.com.br/2012/08/a-new-apps-list-on-chrome-os.html),
> >> Slingshot is definitely going to be considered "Chome OS ripoff!!!11" by
> >> many. I think we should set up a page somewhere in elementaryos.org to
> >> track (some of the) design decisions of controversial origing we use and
> >> show the actual history those design decisions had. That Chrome OS thing
> >> also uses the same idea as my True App Center rant from three months
> >> earlier (http://shnatsel.blogspot.com/2012/03/true-app-center.html) and
> >> GNOME Shell has also picked it up for GNOME 3.6 (
> >> http://blogs.gnome.org/mclasen/2012/08/21/rounding-out-the-3-6-feature-list/
> >> ).
> >>
> >> Contractor is a good example of predating the competition by a
> >> significant amount of time. GNOME is also steadily picking up our design
> >> decisions, though it's not much of a big deal.
> >>
> >> Oh, and we should mention prior art about which we weren't aware... for
> >> example, Maemo has a great AppMenu in GTK that predated our
> >> implementation
> >> (by the way, it's designed simply gorgeously; I think we should rip more
> >> of
> >> it!). Maemo also has a 3x5 menu grid which we found to be optimal... etc.
> >>
> >> And we create a way for readers to submit info on prior art as well as
> >> further evolution of these design decisions. I think this will contribute
> >> greatly to our image of open design as well as code.
> >>
> >> --
> >> Sergey "Shnatsel" Davidoff
> >> OS architect @ elementary
> >>
> >> --
> >> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community
> >> Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net
> >> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community
> >> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
> >>
> >>
> >
> > --
> > Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community
> > Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net
> > Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community
> > More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
> >
> >

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Re: [Elementary-dev-community] [Translation] A question about a few Audience strings.

[Jakob Eriksson]

On August 20, 2012 at 10:50 AM "Alfredo Hernández"
 wrote:

> Hi there,
>
> Since the context doesn't provide enough information, I have a little
> question about the meaning of two Audience strings: (No. 6 and 7):
>
>- 6: *Play from Disc*
>- 7: *Watch a DVD or open a file from disc*
>
> In both cases I'm not sure if disc refers to a round disc (i.e. CD, DVD,
> etc.) or if it refers to a harddrive disc (in wich is *disk* in british);
> the meaning is primordial in order to make a good translation of the
> program.

Wikipedia:
"Generally in computer terminology, disk refers to magnetic storage while disc
refers to optical storage."


which is also consistent with what I have seen.

So point 7 should probably be updated to:

"Watch a DVD or open a file from disk"

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Re: [Elementary-dev-community] X-GNOME-FullName

[Jakob Eriksson]

On July 25, 2012 at 3:43 AM Pim Vullers  wrote:


> I see one major issue here. Using the Generic Name creates issues when
> you've got more then one video player installed. For example, I've got
> VLC, Totem, Audience, XBMC, and I guess some old Xfce related players.


I understand this, but Elementary must first and foremost look super
nice with the default video player in Elementary. Having many video
players is not the typical Elementary use case IMHO.

Of course, it must be possible to distinguish between different
programs, but in IMHO we need to focus on getting one browser, one
video player, one music player, one text editor and so on, to be
Elementary "friendly" or "blessed".

best,
Jakob

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