Re: [Elementary-dev-community] elementary and Ubuntu 13.04
On 21 July 2013 23:51, David Gomes wrote: > [snip] > Note, though, that it might be impossible to tweak a lot of things and > make it look very very alike the Pantheon experience on Ubuntu 12.04 LTS, > but it's probably quite complicated and I don't know how. > That was supposed to be "might be possible", right? :) -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Mir Discussion with Jono
On 11 July 2013 00:28, Daniel Foré wrote: > See Jono's clarification :) > > There is absolutely no reason to believe that not supporting Gtk+ would > doom Ubuntu to fail. Android and iOS launched just fine without supporting > Windows or OS X apps. > However, neither Android or Ios were designed to be Desktop operating systems. Ubuntu is. When you connect a big screen, keyboard and mouse to your phone, you're supposed to get exactly that. In order for _that_ to succeed, you really do need all the apps you can get. Removing all GTK applications from the desktop would seriously limit the chance of success. > > And in fact, this is not so different from our expectations either. A > serious OS needs apps that are built specifically around it's platform. > Cross platform apps suck. > Then Elementary OS is planning on writing everything from office suits to movie editors because none of the current ones are specifically designed for Elementary? Good luck with that. Guess it'll take a while. > I would fully expect it to seem odd that someone would try to run GIMP on > Ubuntu 16.04 just like it would be odd for someone to want to run Krita on > Ubuntu now. > I don't think that's particularly odd at all, since it's possible now. Removing the _possibility_ of running Krita on Ubuntu, however, would be a seriously odd thing to do. Had to take a trip to #Ubuntu-mir on Freenode. I asked about this and Robert Carr replied: «We've always said that we were creating a GTK backend. but it's behind anything for the phone or the system compositor of course :)» _That_ makes sense. Robert Carr is one of the big names in Mir development. -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Mir Discussion with Jono
On 10 July 2013 22:45, Daniel Foré wrote: > I can confirm that from speaking to Canonical employees and attending UDS > that the tone has been for a long time that they will eventually stop > supporting Gtk+ in favor of Qt > For Ubuntu SDK apps, that has been known for quite a while and there are good reasons for it. But that's something _very_ different from not supporting GTK+ on their display server, though it's obviously vice versa, purely technically speaking. That would effectively kill Mir right from the beginning and this seems a highly unlikely goal for any software company – to design your products to fail. > > At the current rate, 14.04 may be the last version of Ubuntu under which > you can run Gtk+ apps unless the community wants to build Mir support for > Gtk+. > > Canonical is building a suite of default apps in Qt and all their > third-party dev documentation is now focused on Qt. This is happening. > Ubuntu is for Qt. > You seem to still be talking about Ubuntu SDK apps? Yes, on Touch, GTK+ is not supported and according to Michael Hall, this is primarily because of scaling GUIs to make applications look the same even if the resolution changes. You should of course still be _able_ to run GTK+ apps, but they'd look horrible because of lacking support from the SDK. But on the _desktop_? It makes absolutely no sense in removing all those applications because they themselves want to write in Qt. > But like ConciousUser has stated, there is absolutely nothing wrong with > that. That is 100% their choice to make and in my opinion, having a > dedication to a single toolkit is a great choice. That's why elementary > also has a dedication to a single toolkit and if we built a new display > server I can tell you right now we'd have no intention of making Qt run on > it. > There are lots of things wrong with that, which is why I don't believe it. But let me get this straight; if X has to be replaced and nobody else writes a new display server for you, then Elementary OS is willing to remove software like GIMP, Evolution, Inkscape all all other great GTK+ applications? You wouldn't want to support Evolution for your business/corporate users – even if those represent your primary income? That, to me, seems like an amazingly bad idea. Perhaps you'd decide to port those applications to Qt instead? After all, you want your OS to be a success, right? Then you need to have good apps. I can't believe Canonical intends to do any of that, and I won't believe it until I see an official statement. The only other option I can see is to keep supporting XMir forever, which in time will mean supporting X.org alone. That would most likely be a lot harder than supporting a GTK+ backend. Right? Likewise, porting everything from GIMP to Evolution would also mean an insane amount of work. -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Elementary-dev-community] Mir Discussion with Jono
On 10 July 2013 18:27, Daniel Foré wrote: > Hey everyone, > > > So here’s the distilled conversation we had with Jono: > [snip] > Obviously there are pros and cons. The biggest con is that it is highly > unlikely Canonical will put staff hours into make sure stuff like Gtk+ and > Clutter work on Mir. This work is essential to elementary as it stands and > blocks us from running natively on Mir. > [snip] Did Jono explain why this is unlikely, or is that your speculation? Because it sounds contrary to the recent Mir interview. It also seems kind of weird that a desktop distribution would want to make such an enormous amount of applications second class citizens in this way. It seems unlikely that they'll add GTK+ as a language for Ubuntu SDK anytime soon, but that's a completely different thing and wouldn't affect Elementary in any case. I would certainly expect Canonical to add a GTK+ backend for Mir. Otherwise, they'll have close to no hope of making Mir a successful display server. More information about this would be very interesting read. Jo-Erlend Schinstad -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community Post to : elementary-dev-community@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
