[elm-discuss] Re: Elm, Objects and Components

2016-09-20 Thread 'Rupert Smith' via Elm Discuss 
On Tuesday, September 20, 2016 at 12:30:03 PM UTC+1, Gusztáv Szikszai wrote:
>
> Also maybe you don't know but I've created Elm-UI  
> just for the same reason: to quickly build stuff from the same components 
> just like Bootstrap. And it solves many of the problems that seems you are 
> facing, the downside of it is that it's not in the official repository 
> because well it "doesn't play nice". It uses the standard TEA where 
> components with their own state and I think that is just fine it doesn't 
> need to be more simple or complicated then that. And the communication is 
> solved by allowing the components to publish messages to anyone who is 
> subscribing to them.
>

I'm intrigued. How did you implement the component pub/sub bit? 

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Re: [elm-discuss] Re: Elm, Objects and Components

2016-09-20 Thread Duane Johnson 
On Tue, Sep 20, 2016 at 8:34 AM, Max Goldstein 
wrote:

> Respectfully, the discussions around components keep happening because
> people start them. Asking "how do I have stateful components with
> closure/nesting" falls prey to the XY problem, and also misses a lot of the
> philosophy of language design that Evan has talked about, most recently in
> his elm-conf keynote . To
> paraphrase, Elm is a young language and we're more concerned with doing
> things right for the future than making a good language today. Another key
> quote from his status updates: *choose not to block*. Going around and
> demanding new language features that fit your style of code is not helpful.
>

FWIW, I appreciate Peter's questions, and I don't interpret "What am I
missing?" and "Why not have...?" as demands. I like Evan's approach to
language change and anticipate it will lead to a better Elm. As we gather
the batch of problems that will lead to insight, I think the user stories
and context around them are also important.

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Re: [elm-discuss] Re: Elm, Objects and Components

2016-09-20 Thread Max Goldstein 

>
> If Elm provides an official way to use TEA in order to implement Custom 
> Elements *the discussions around Components will go away.*
>

 For example, if elm-html library would be supplemented by an elm-ui 
> library that is just as easy to use as elm-html but it is as extensive as 
> Semantic UI and just as customizable (themes) *the discussion around 
> small stateful components might just go away. *


Respectfully, the discussions around components keep happening because 
people start them. Asking "how do I have stateful components with 
closure/nesting" falls prey to the XY problem, and also misses a lot of the 
philosophy of language design that Evan has talked about, most recently in 
his elm-conf keynote . To 
paraphrase, Elm is a young language and we're more concerned with doing 
things right for the future than making a good language today. Another key 
quote from his status updates: *choose not to block*. Going around and 
demanding new language features that fit your style of code is not helpful.

And by the XY problem, once again I ask that if the fundamental concern is 
the statefulness of HTML tags like dropdowns, let's address that in another 
thread. Getting HTML to do everything it can do when managed by JS is a web 
platform concern. Let's come up with specific examples of things we can't 
do (not just can't do easily, can't do at all) with HTML inputs.

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Re: [elm-discuss] Re: Elm, Objects and Components

2016-09-20 Thread Peter Damoc 
On Tue, Sep 20, 2016 at 2:30 PM, Gusztáv Szikszai 
wrote:

> Also maybe you don't know but I've created Elm-UI 
> just for the same reason: to quickly build stuff from the same components
> just like Bootstrap. And it solves many of the problems that seems you are
> facing, the downside of it is that it's not in the official repository
> because well it "doesn't play nice". It uses the standard TEA where
> components with their own state and I think that is just fine it doesn't
> need to be more simple or complicated then that. And the communication is
> solved by allowing the components to publish messages to anyone who is
> subscribing to them.
>

I know about Elm-UI, I actually looked a little bit at it when I evaluated
the options I had when I started the projects who's death I documented in
the other thread.
To be honest, it felt even more riskier to go with that than it did to go
elm-mdl.

elm-ui project also shows the impact of not using an official way on
contributions. A lot more people contributed to elm-mdl than to elm-ui.
Now, this might be because this is how you want it (similar to what Evan
does for the core) but somehow I think that this might not be the case.




-- 
There is NO FATE, we are the creators.
blog: http://damoc.ro/

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