Re: format/fill of text in a cell in tables
> Ihor Radchenko writes: > I agree. This is actually a much harder problem to solve than it may > appear on the surface. There have been a number of proposals regarding > how to do this over the years, but unfortunately, they have all had > significant drawbacks or limitations. One of which is that formatting > tables with multiple lines in LaTeX is actually a bit tricky (probably > the only exporter where it is relatively straight-forward is HTML). This > means you actually have two broad problems - handling cell wrapping in > the org buffers and handling it cleanly in the different exporters. Actually there is a, non official, odt exporter which allows you, use lists that are then converted to odt tables, in which the cells a nicely filled and formatted. It also allows more complex, nested tables. On the org-mode only side there is list-cruncher that also converts lists to org tables, so you can, somehow «avoid» the filling issue when you type, but I have also to add that the resulting cells in the tables are not really filled. I think, one attempt could be to use org-edit-special, to edit a cell, type the text in a temporary buffer, fill it and then return to the table. That seems so obvious that I think there might be technical problems, because otherwise it would have been implemented already. smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature
Re: Future TODOs with notes appear prematurely
> Samuel Wales writes: > a guess from everything yoyu described. i assume you are talking > about the agenda agenda daily/weekly view. please confirm. > what are the values of org-agenda-include-inactive-timestamps, > org-agenda-log-mode, and org-agenda-log-mode-items? Well, this is embarrassing. On a newly launched emacs, I cannot now reproduce what I originally saw. I am sorry for forgetting to try the obvious things before posting! > On 12/17/21, Colin Baxter wrote: >> Hello, >> >> A TODO item scheduled for a future date ordinarily does not >> appear in today's agenda. However, this is not the case if the >> TODO has a note dated today in its log drawer. The TODO item is >> now visible in today's agenda, even though it's scheduled for the >> future. If this isn't a bug then how can I keep the TODO item >> hidden until its scheduled date? >> >> Best wishes, >> >> Colin Baxter. >> >> >>
Re: [PATCH] ob-shell-test, test-ob-shell and introduction
> Contributions to Worg aren't similarly restricted. Feel free to > push material there in the meantime. Looks like the email finally got sent to the right person at my company. Who knows how long it will take for them to get the FSF disclaimer back to me... Now that I'm on holiday, I've got a little more time to contribute to Worg. Here's a few patches showing what I've come up with. I'll finish it up in the next few days, hopefully. Not sure if the patches are formed correctly, sorry about that if not. It's late here and I wanted to show progress. I'll worry about those kinds of details later. :) 0001-Draft-introduction-and-setup.patch Description: Binary data 0001-org-contrib-babel-languages-ob-doc-shell.org-Create-.patch Description: Binary data
Re: org-persist cache for remote files
Ihor Radchenko writes: > Lele Gaifax writes: > >> I wonder if there is some mechanism I could use to either prevent caching >> of non-local documents or to avoid the check on existence in the >> org-persist-gc. > > I can easily make a change that always garbage-collect non-local > documents without trying to connect to remote server. This can be one > solution of your problem. However, I am not sure if it is the best > solution. > > May I know more about your use cases? Do you frequently open large > remote Org files? If you do, trashing their cache may not be optimal. I do not open remote Org files very often, but surely happens now and then, typically from my laptop to see/edit something I keep on my desktop PC. > Maybe we should better make this a user option? Yes, that's what I had in mind: when (say) org-persist-do-not-auto-gc-remotes is enabled, the cleanup procedure would ignore remote Org documents and a new explicit (interactive) org-persist-gc-remotes would take care of them. > Or we can go a different route and just not garbage collect remote files > until cache gets too large. Yes, a threshold would work too. Thanks a lot, ciao, lele. -- nickname: Lele Gaifax | Quando vivrò di quello che ho pensato ieri real: Emanuele Gaifas | comincerò ad aver paura di chi mi copia. l...@metapensiero.it | -- Fortunato Depero, 1929.
Re: [BUG] org-element--cache gives "Unregistered buffer modifications" warning [9.5 (9.5-g859984 @ /home/john/.emacs.d/straight/build/org/)]
Kaushal Modi writes: > I actually run a wrapper script to update Org and that has all that: > ... > I verified that at least the git hash was latest as of then: > release_9.5-364-g*de022e* Odd. Though the commit number is indeed correct. > There's a setup included in there; I forgot about that. If you don't mind > trying it again, this would download everything needed: Thanks! I was able to follow your steps this time. > Sorry, but I am getting similar backtrace in another function now: Sigh... Should be fixed now. I did not expect that arguments to cache functions could ever be markers. After the fix, I was able to see the warning you were talking about in the earlier email. Your test case revealed an important omission in the cache logic when a huge number of edits are stacked together into asynchronous cache queue. Thanks you for providing the excellent reproducer! On latest main, your example file is exported without any warnings. Also, I noticed that the large number of edits makes the cache use a lot of memory adding load onto the Emacs garbage collector. May I know what exactly ox-hugo does that triggers that many edits? Exporting your example files took approximately 30sec on my system (both with and without cache). I believe that the speed can be improved if cache is used more optimally. > *Another observation: * > > I see this warning when building from the latest main: > > In org-element--cache-sync: > org-element.el:5935:19: Warning: assignment to free variable > ‘org-element--cache-change-warning’ Thanks! Fixed. Best, Ihor
org-persist cache for remote files (was: org-persist)
Lele Gaifax writes: > Digging down, I found that it was due to the persistent cache, that contained > several entries about remote (Tramp) documents: upon closing Emacs, the > org-persist-gc function is triggered, and the index is traversed to remove > dangling entries, performing a file-exist-p on each filename. For remote > files, that obviously mean prompting for the remote password (when the > ssh-agent does not carry it) or spending a considerable time in the network > round trip. Thanks for reporting! I am not using tramp regularly and I did not think about this use case. > I wonder if there is some mechanism I could use to either prevent caching of > non-local documents or to avoid the check on existence in the org-persist-gc. I can easily make a change that always garbage-collect non-local documents without trying to connect to remote server. This can be one solution of your problem. However, I am not sure if it is the best solution. May I know more about your use cases? Do you frequently open large remote Org files? If you do, trashing their cache may not be optimal. Maybe we should better make this a user option? Or we can go a different route and just not garbage collect remote files until cache gets too large. WDYT? Best, Ihor
Re: Future TODOs with notes appear prematurely
a guess from everything yoyu described. i assume you are talking about the agenda agenda daily/weekly view. please confirm. what are the values of org-agenda-include-inactive-timestamps, org-agenda-log-mode, and org-agenda-log-mode-items? On 12/17/21, Colin Baxter wrote: > Hello, > > A TODO item scheduled for a future date ordinarily does not appear in > today's agenda. However, this is not the case if the TODO has a note > dated today in its log drawer. The TODO item is now visible in today's > agenda, even though it's scheduled for the future. If this isn't a bug > then how can I keep the TODO item hidden until its scheduled date? > > Best wishes, > > Colin Baxter. > > > -- The Kafka Pandemic A blog about science, health, human rights, and misopathy: https://thekafkapandemic.blogspot.com
bug#52547: 29.0.50; Confusing behavior of org-timer-set
Kyle Meyer writes: > This must be org-timer-set-timer; there's no org-timer-set in Org's > tree. Correct. My apologies. > Yes, it seems better to at least signal a user-error if the input > doesn't match the expected format. Agreed. Or perhaps recognize h/m/s, like org-schedule does. > Anyway, I'm redirecting this to the Org list. Perhaps someone there > will be interested in improving this behavior or reviewing a patch that > does so. Thank you! (Org remains strangely "disconnected" from Emacs.) > org-timer-set-timer has been autoloaded since 4e2795413 (Add autoload > cookie to org-timer-set-timer, 2009-07-27). Correct. My apologies again. -- "I love deadlines. I love the whooshing noise they make as they go by." -- Douglas Adams, The Salmon of Doubt Rudolf Adamkovič [he/him] Studenohorská 25 84103 Bratislava Slovakia
Re: format/fill of text in a cell in tables
to...@tuxteam.de writes: > This reminds me of people advocating "semantic backup" (e.g. use > "emphasis" instead of "italics", until one realises that you just > managed to peel off one layer of the sematic onion. The onion just got > smaller (some literature perhaps might want to play with the ambiguity > of italics?), and if you continue, you end up with no onion at all. There is a lot of confusion between the terms 'emphasis' and 'italics/cursive'. The second term is strictly typographic-calligraphic. There are entire codices that are wrote in Byzantine cursive. And you have the Porson typeface, from the Oxford editions of Ancient Greek texts, which is a cursive, but which is used as a normal font. In an ancient text there is no notion for 'emphasis': how do we know when Homer or Sappho wanted to emphasize a phrase? Typography has historically used italics as a resource for emphasis (not in all languages, some use the separation of letters to emphasize; there are also writing systems where the concept of 'italics' or 'cursive' does not make sense), but it uses the italic also for more varied purposes: depends on the era, fashion and trends. Consider also the avant-garde poetry of the early last century, which had a great typographical dependency, as a sort of game. In addition, there is the maremagnum of graphic design, which is not strictly typography (although both terms are also confused), but use the typography for expressive purposes: advertising, etc. I remember that a long time ago I use to wrote in a typewriter, and there was a common convention in typed texts, which consisted of marking the emphases like this: _emphasis_. WYSIWYG word processors imposed a form quite unnatural to write, by confusing format and content. And they force authors to have typographical concerns at the most inopportune moment, which is the creation of content (as if Hemingway used a monotype instead of a typewriter). The proof is that hardly any of the Word users use Word styles or apply them consistently. The normal thing, with rare exceptions, is to degrade the documents using direct format, which is the great plague. I believe that a text whose main purpose is not to produce a visual impact (advertising, ritual, magic, etc.) but to transmit a thought and a content, it must have a structure. And then there will be time for that structure can be translated to other supports. Typography, in its most basic and utilitarian sense (not visual) is nothing more than a language to translate that structure, offering the maximum possible readability, through a series of techniques. And every type of content, for example a 'table' (in Org terms not typographic terms), can have many possible typographic translations, even translations that don't consist of a 'table', in typographical terms. But typography is not the only possible language to translate a content: think of texts written to be heard, or texts written for absolutely personal use. That's why I believe the least unhealthy way to put content in writing is within a environment as agnostic as possible of the format. In that environment is where the term 'emphasis' makes sense. Best regards, Juan Manuel
Re: org-persist
Hi, Ihor Radchenko writes: >> I had originally set org-element-use-cache to nil because I remember >> reading somewhere that the nil setting would help prevent emacs from >> hanging in org-mode. > > The cache code has been refactored. I tried my best to fix all the bugs > causing the hangs and I am not seeing hangs anymore. That's why I took a > risk to enable cache by default on main. today I spent the required time to investigate on one issue I had with my Doom-based profile, that uses the "master" version of Orgmode, and found it related to the org-persist functionality. Basically since some time ago, quitting Emacs I was sometime prompted for a password, some other time it took a considerable time to close the instance. Digging down, I found that it was due to the persistent cache, that contained several entries about remote (Tramp) documents: upon closing Emacs, the org-persist-gc function is triggered, and the index is traversed to remove dangling entries, performing a file-exist-p on each filename. For remote files, that obviously mean prompting for the remote password (when the ssh-agent does not carry it) or spending a considerable time in the network round trip. I wonder if there is some mechanism I could use to either prevent caching of non-local documents or to avoid the check on existence in the org-persist-gc. Thanks for any hint, bye, lele. -- nickname: Lele Gaifax | Quando vivrò di quello che ho pensato ieri real: Emanuele Gaifas | comincerò ad aver paura di chi mi copia. l...@metapensiero.it | -- Fortunato Depero, 1929.
Future TODOs with notes appear prematurely
Hello, A TODO item scheduled for a future date ordinarily does not appear in today's agenda. However, this is not the case if the TODO has a note dated today in its log drawer. The TODO item is now visible in today's agenda, even though it's scheduled for the future. If this isn't a bug then how can I keep the TODO item hidden until its scheduled date? Best wishes, Colin Baxter.
bug#52545: 29.0.50; Make org-babel-execute-buffer ignore irrelevant src blocks
> On Dec 16, 2021, at 8:51 PM, Kyle Meyer wrote: > > Rudolf Adamkovič: > >> I have a .org file with two kinds of src blocks: >> >> 1. sqlite blocks >> 2. bibtex blocks >> >> I want to execute all sqlite blocks with org-babel-execute-buffer. >> >> When I try to do so, org-mode complains: >> >> org-babel-execute-src-block: No org-babel-execute function for bibtex! >> >> I know I can work around the problem (as one does in org-mode) with: >> >> #+property: header-args:bibtex+ :eval no >> >> Then, why not skip the irrelevant blocks, the ones with no execute >> functions, by default? If I have a typo in the name of a language, the error message you quote tells me what my mistake was. I'd say that is a feature, not a bug. HTH, Chuck > > I don't know, but I've reassigned this bug in order to redirect this to > the Org list, which serves as the primary place for Org development and > discussion. >
Re: format/fill of text in a cell in tables
On Fri, Dec 17, 2021 at 11:11:47PM +1100, Tim Cross wrote: [...] > Yes, sometimes tables are extremely useful - especially wrt 2-d > relationships I'm not against the use of tables, but do find their use > as a formatting/layout tool limited [...] Yes, but at the end, layout is but a thinking device as all the others are :-) This reminds me of people advocating "semantic backup" (e.g. use "emphasis" instead of "italics", until one realises that you just managed to peel off one layer of the sematic onion. The onion just got smaller (some literature perhaps might want to play with the ambiguity of italics?), and if you continue, you end up with no onion at all. > Many years ago, I worked on a system which used an interesting interface > which used 'cubes' to represent database information [...] Sounds a bit awkward, at the same time. I guess the gains to be had from going from 1D to 2D are significantly higher than those beyond (OTOH, beyond 5 or 6, things get strange again, with most of the volume of things getting stuck in thin shells). > I have been legally blind my whole life and for 17 years [...] > [...] I'm sort of between worlds - enough sight to prevent me really > developing 'sightless'skills Thanks for sharing your experience. That's the only way others can learn. > I know a few totally blind mathematicians and their skills are > impressive. Quite a few of them have ended up working in fields relating > to topology [...] This is interesting. I always was wondering how different person's strategies in this situation have anything in common and how they vary wildly. > > * WYS ain't WYG [...] > Yes, I can see why people like WYSWYG when editing. However, my > experience with such systems as more often than not been extremely > frustrating as I seem to end up constantly fighting with the system to > get it looking right rather than focusing on the content [...] There is a lot of potential in being "between the worlds", and Org tries to exploit exactly that. But that's, I think, also where its conflicts are. You can see similar patterns in other fields. Serialization formats which deliver abstract and concrete syntax in "one package" (S-expressions, XML (and those others), JSON) tend to be wildly successful, but tend to run into the same troubles time and again; trying to do the right thing and separating abstract and concrete syntax (think ASN.1) tend to end up in niches (OK, ASN.1 is actually successful, but only because people get paid to do that :-) Cheers -- t signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: Question About Nuking The Priority Of A Task After Its Been Marked As 'DONE'
Rather, thanks Samuel Loury! :)
Good to know great Sam's exist that like Emacs out there ;)
I tried it today, and this totally worked in my config.
Thanks a ton for this, very cool function, and SUPER useful for me as I mark
stuff as 'DONE' a ton within my workflow for tickets at work.
Thanks again!
Sam
On Sat, Dec 11, 2021, at 12:51 PM, Samuel Banya wrote:
> Hey Konibunix!
>
> Thanks a ton for this, this looks fun as heck to implement :)
>
> I'll have to try this on my config sometime next week. Thanks a ton for this,
> bookmarking this post for now.
>
> Love it :)
>
> On Sat, Dec 11, 2021, at 7:49 AM, Samuel Loury wrote:
>> "Samuel Banya" writes:
>>
>> > I often change states of my todo list items to 'DONE', 'CANCELLED', etc.
>> >
>> > However, one thing I would want to know is this:
>> > - Is it possible to automatically delete the '#' priority value of a task
>> > after a task has been marked as 'DONE', 'CANCELLED', etc?
>> >
>> > Is this done via a hook function?
>>
>> To do it globally:
>>
>> --8<---cut here---start->8---
>> (defun my/org-trigger-hook (change-plist)
>> (let* ((type (plist-get change-plist :type))
>> (pos (plist-get change-plist :position))
>> (from (substring-no-properties (or (plist-get change-plist :from)
>> "")))
>> (to (substring-no-properties (or (plist-get change-plist :to) "")))
>> )
>> (when (and
>>(eq type 'todo-state-change)
>>(member to org-done-keywords)
>>(member from org-not-done-keywords)
>>)
>> (org-priority (string-to-char " "))
>> )
>> )
>> )
>>
>> (add-hook #'org-trigger-hook
>> #'my/org-trigger-hook)
>> --8<---cut here---end--->8---
>>
>>
>> But if, like me, you want to define this behavior per task, this is one
>> of the purposes of org-edna. I suggest you try it.
>>
>> I your particular example, you would simply set the TRIGGER property of
>> the task for which you want to delete the priority to this content
>>
>> --8<---cut here---start->8---
>> * NEXT [#B] some task
>> :PROPERTIES:
>> :TRIGGER: self() set-priority!(" ")
>> :END:
>> --8<---cut here---end--->8---
>>
>> Closing it would result in
>>
>> --8<---cut here---start->8---
>> * DONE some task
>> CLOSED: [2021-12-11 Sat 13:38]
>> :PROPERTIES:
>> :TRIGGER: self() set-priority!(" ")
>> :END:
>> --8<---cut here---end--->8---
>>
>> Of course, it also work for repeated task or any complicated scenario
>> I have tried so far.
>>
>> I hope that helps,
>> --
>> Konubinix
>> GPG Key: 7439106A
>> Fingerprint: 5993 BE7A DA65 E2D9 06CE 5C36 75D2 3CED 7439 106A
>>
>>
>> *Attachments:*
>> * signature.asc
>
Re: format/fill of text in a cell in tables
writes: > [[PGP Signed Part:Undecided]] > On Fri, Dec 17, 2021 at 08:51:59AM +1100, Tim Cross wrote: > > [on flowing text whithin table cells] > >> I agree. This is actually a much harder problem to solve than it may >> appear on the surface [...] > > Tables have an advantage if your approach is an explorative one, i.e. if > the process is part of the result. I don't think they are as successful > as they are for no reason (SQL, or R's data frames are about tables, after > all, so it's not only Excel). If you want your reader to take part in > the exploration process, a table might just be right. > Yes, sometimes tables are extremely useful - especially wrt 2-d relationships I'm not against the use of tables, but do find their use as a formatting/layout tool limited. Unfortunately, this is often how I see them used. Much of my work has been with databases, so conceptually, I often think in terms of tables, rows and relationships. More often than not, while tables are good for simple entities, they are poor for modelling because things often break down into hierarchies and related sets etc. Many years ago, I worked on a system which used an interesting interface which used 'cubes' to represent database information. At the time, all of us who worked on the system dreamed of the day when you could have a hologram display, true 3-d manipulation and linking of data cubes with the ability to interact and walk around it to cut (slice) the data in different ways. It was a lot of fun, but at the time computing power was not quite up to the task. We even used an interesting logic based on work done by a mathematician called Charles Peirce, who defined a deductive logic based on graphs where your basic logic operations were done through the union, intersection and projection of graphs etc. An interesting approach which seems well suited to modern computer interfaces (despite the fact he lived from 1839-1914). > The point you make about assistive technologies is hugely important. I > haven't much experience with blind people myself, but I'm convinced that > their perception of dimensionality (2D, 2D vs 3D) could be quite > different from that of sighted people. Is a table an advantage or a > disadvantage then? Does it depend on the strategic path they have > chosen? Do some feel better at 3D? 5D? [2] > I have been legally blind my whole life and for 17 years, I had nothing but light/dark perception (I could tell when it was day and when it was night, or if a light was on, but that was about it). I was lucky to regain some sight about 11 years ago and can now see colour, shapes and even sometimes recognise people (though much of that is about other cues, like hair length/style, clothing, deportment etc. I have a large screen and use a large font, but rely heavily on text-to-speech. I'm sort of between worlds - enough sight to prevent me really developing 'sightless'skills, but not enough to rely on sight for reading etc. My braille is comprehension is terrible. I know a few totally blind mathematicians and their skills are impressive. Quite a few of them have ended up working in fields relating to topology. I suspect that not having sight actually helps them in their mental model of n-dimensions when n > 3. Sighted people seem to find such dimensional thinking challenging and I suspect it is because they are more accustomed to a 3-d world. For me, I have only 1 eye, so no depth perception and a somewhat 'flat' view of the world :-). > * WYS ain't WYG > > Lastly, Org ain't WYSIWYG (well, duh). But such things as flowed cells > are measuring it up to one, up to a point (although, at some point, I > admit to having yearned for some). A strength is a weakness is a > strength. I think it is the nature of Org to live with such conflicts. > It's an interesting place, where it lives :-) > Yes, I can see why people like WYSWYG when editing. However, my experience with such systems as more often than not been extremely frustrating as I seem to end up constantly fighting with the system to get it looking right rather than focusing on the content. I remember the joy I had when I discovered Latex and how it allowed me to focus on content and leave presentation to others who undoubtedly had far better skills then me. Often the problem with WYSWYG is that it isn't always true - more like WYSCWYG (what you see is close to what you get).
Re: format/fill of text in a cell in tables
On Fri, Dec 17, 2021 at 08:51:59AM +1100, Tim Cross wrote: [on flowing text whithin table cells] > I agree. This is actually a much harder problem to solve than it may > appear on the surface [...] If you want to get completely dizzy, watch the recurrent threads about proportional fonts in emacs-user or emacs devel :-) That's when things start getting interesting. > If you have lots of cells needing wrapping, the table is perhaps not the > right layout mechanism to use. While it may seem like a convenient way > to present content, often it isn't a great way to consume it. Donald > Knuth wrote a bit about why tables with multiple cell lines were a poor > choice. After years of dealing with project managers who too often use > Excel to record, present and share data, I tend to agree with his views. > I'm also old enough to remember when the table was the 'goto' solution > for managing layout in HTML files and what a mess that became. Very interesting points you make. I'd like to add a couple or two ;-) * static vs dynamic, user vs master An admirer of Knuth myself, I tend to relativise his position: he's a book writer in the classical sense. Lots of things happen at "compile time", you (the reader) get to watch (in awe) the process's results. Tables have an advantage if your approach is an explorative one, i.e. if the process is part of the result. I don't think they are as successful as they are for no reason (SQL, or R's data frames are about tables, after all, so it's not only Excel). If you want your reader to take part in the exploration process, a table might just be right. The cell lines is again in the same pattern: once the layout is fixed, you can tweak your appearance so you can drop the lines. The result is astounding, but only if you know your trade damn well. Knuth does. If things are still in flow, or if you aren't a Grandmaster, perhaps lines do help [1]. Now sometimes, this "in flow" is part of what you want to convey, so... * acculturation & perception Very interesting point you make about "project managers". This reminds me that there's not that One Perception Ruleset. People tend to justify nearly anything with anything (remember those arguing with grey levels and contrast to prove that serif fonts are more readable? Or was it the other way around?). To the project managers, tables are probably the most readable, because they read them all the time. Especially if they are made with Microsoft (that's the basis of the power of those corps, after all). Human perception seems so adaptable that it's nearly scary. So it is all part of a giant feedback loop. Difficult to spot some bedrock in this mess. Perception is culture is perception. The point you make about assistive technologies is hugely important. I haven't much experience with blind people myself, but I'm convinced that their perception of dimensionality (2D, 2D vs 3D) could be quite different from that of sighted people. Is a table an advantage or a disadvantage then? Does it depend on the strategic path they have chosen? Do some feel better at 3D? 5D? [2] * WYS ain't WYG Lastly, Org ain't WYSIWYG (well, duh). But such things as flowed cells are measuring it up to one, up to a point (although, at some point, I admit to having yearned for some). A strength is a weakness is a strength. I think it is the nature of Org to live with such conflicts. It's an interesting place, where it lives :-) Cheers [1] You better go with your camera's defaults to take an everyday photo. If you're planning that astounding grainy B portrait, you're in for some training. [2] I had once a prof in functional analysis: the way he drew his things on the blackboard gave us the impression that he really was /seeing/ those infinite-dimensional vector spaces he constantly talked about. Scary :) -- tomás signature.asc Description: PGP signature
