Re: [O] What do you use to identify projects (in the GTD sense)
Hi Bernt, sorry, I wasn't more specific. My problem is with projects that consist of subprojects and simple tasks. Consider the following scenario: * TODO Project ** TODO Subproject A *** NEXT Task A1 *** TODO Task A2 ** NEXT Task B ** TODO Task C ** TODO ... Task B and C have to be done in order. However, Subproject A is somewhat independent and can be done in parallel, while working on Task B and C. When I mark Task B as DONE, the Project is still unstuck because of the a NEXT task in Subproject A. Meaning that I never get to schedule Task C or any following tasks until I'm done with Subproject A. One solution to this problem would be to trigger a state change in Task C automatically when Task B is done. But I'm afraid that is too much setup and also not flexible enough. Often, when I consider a stuck project I schedule next actions that I haven't thought of before or even put the project on a someday list. Another solution would be to implement a stale projects list, i.e. a list of projects that have defined next actions, but haven't seen any work in the last X days. Cheers, Viktor PS: Your org-mode site is generally the bomb! Bernt Hansen wrote: Viktor Rosenfeld listuse...@googlemail.com writes: I use Bernt's approach with a few modifications. Basically I don't use subprojects. I think Bernt's handling of subprojects is broken, because a NEXT keyword burried in a subproject keeps the entire project off the stuck projects lists. (Please correct me if I'm wrong.) It's possible it's broken :) but subprojects are considered separately for the stuck project list. It is true that if any subproject has a NEXT task then the overall project is not stuck (but doesn't that makes sense?) * TODO Project ** TODO SubProject A *** NEXT Task One ** TODO SubProject B *** TODO Task Two In the above layout Project is not stuck (it has Task One as a NEXT task) but SubProject B is stuck (it has no next task and shows up on the stuck project list) Also as soon as Task One is DONE than both SubProject A and Project are both stuck until a new NEXT task is identified (or they are in turn marked DONE) Regards, Bernt
Re: [O] What do you use to identify projects (in the GTD sense)
Viktor Rosenfeld listuse...@googlemail.com writes: Hi Bernt, sorry, I wasn't more specific. My problem is with projects that consist of subprojects and simple tasks. Consider the following scenario: * TODO Project ** TODO Subproject A *** NEXT Task A1 *** TODO Task A2 ** NEXT Task B ** TODO Task C ** TODO ... Task B and C have to be done in order. However, Subproject A is somewhat independent and can be done in parallel, while working on Task B and C. When I mark Task B as DONE, the Project is still unstuck because of the a NEXT task in Subproject A. Meaning that I never get to schedule Task C or any following tasks until I'm done with Subproject A. One solution to this problem would be to trigger a state change in Task C automatically when Task B is done. But I'm afraid that is too much setup and also not flexible enough. Often, when I consider a stuck project I schedule next actions that I haven't thought of before or even put the project on a someday list. Another solution would be to implement a stale projects list, i.e. a list of projects that have defined next actions, but haven't seen any work in the last X days. Okay - I have a custom skip function for identifying stuck projects. You should be able to create one that only looks at immediate subtasks to address the above example. This would make project independent of subprojects when determining if it is stuck or not without requiring you to rearrange your task hierarchy. Cheers, Viktor PS: Your org-mode site is generally the bomb! Thanks :) HTH, Bernt
Re: [O] What do you use to identify projects (in the GTD sense)
I use Bernt's approach with a few modifications. Basically I don't use subprojects. I think Bernt's handling of subprojects is broken, because a NEXT keyword burried in a subproject keeps the entire project off the stuck projects lists. (Please correct me if I'm wrong.) My solution is to move a project's task that itself requires subtasks out of the project and make it a top-level project in itself. This makes archiving somewhat cumbersome, as (sub) projects may get archived out of order. But for me archiving is a very manual process anyway. I delete lots of done projects or move the information to a notes file. I also have a lot of simple tasks that aren't really part of project. (Like watch my sister's kids. What project would I put that under?) These one-shot tasks appear on my next action agenda block along with project next action. They do not appear in the Stuck projects agenda block if they dont' have a NEXT keyword, but in a a seperate agenda block, because there is no need to determine the next action. I just have to determine the work context or maybe schedule them for a particular day. Bernt Hansen wrote: Marcelo de Moraes Serpa celose...@gmail.com writes: I'm wondering if you make the distinction between projects and actionable items. How do you do it? http://doc.norang.ca/org-mode.html#Projects -Bernt
Re: [O] What do you use to identify projects (in the GTD sense)
Viktor Rosenfeld listuse...@googlemail.com writes: I use Bernt's approach with a few modifications. Basically I don't use subprojects. I think Bernt's handling of subprojects is broken, because a NEXT keyword burried in a subproject keeps the entire project off the stuck projects lists. (Please correct me if I'm wrong.) It's possible it's broken :) but subprojects are considered separately for the stuck project list. It is true that if any subproject has a NEXT task then the overall project is not stuck (but doesn't that makes sense?) * TODO Project ** TODO SubProject A *** NEXT Task One ** TODO SubProject B *** TODO Task Two In the above layout Project is not stuck (it has Task One as a NEXT task) but SubProject B is stuck (it has no next task and shows up on the stuck project list) Also as soon as Task One is DONE than both SubProject A and Project are both stuck until a new NEXT task is identified (or they are in turn marked DONE) Regards, Bernt
Re: [O] What do you use to identify projects (in the GTD sense)
Hi Marcelo, its nothing special: * Working Area (the order of these models some kind of global priorization) :PROPERTIES: :CATEGORY: CAT-A (- some identifier to be displayed on the left of agenda) :END: ** PROJ outcome or project title *** DONE something done *** NEXT the next action *** TODO something currently not actionable (because of dependencies or so) PROJ some subproject * ... you get it Often I prefix the individual action items with short identifiers for the containing project to give me some context in the agenda. Instead of extending the strings it helps to keep them shorter. For example: TODO software-x: talk to Fred about the missing requirements instead of TODO talk to Fred about the missing requirements of software-x In english its not very efficient, but in German it can save you a lot of letters and you have a fixed position to look for the context. A tag may fit the same needs but they are located less prominently and I think one needs the context first. Daniel Am Montag 10 Oktober 2011, 20:44:46 schrieb Marcelo de Moraes Serpa: Hi Daneil, Looks interesting. Could you share a sample tree with projects and actions? Cheers, - Marcelo. On Mon, Oct 10, 2011 at 6:30 AM, Daniel Bausch danielbau...@gmx.de wrote: Hello, I use a todo keyword PROJ and a custom block agenda, that filters different interesting groups for review. (setq org-agenda-custom-commands '((g My GTD Agenda ((agenda ((org-agenda-ndays 1) (org-agenda-start-on-weekday nil) (org-agenda-entry-types '(:timestamp :sexp)) (org-agenda-overriding-header Appointments))) (agenda ((org-agenda-ndays 1) (org-agenda-start-on-weekday nil) (org-agenda-entry-types '(:deadline)) (org-agenda-overriding-header Upcoming Deadlines) (org-agenda-sorting-strategy '(priority-down time-down)) (org-agenda-skip-function '(org-agenda-skip-entry-if 'todo 'done (agenda ((org-agenda-ndays 1) (org-agenda-start-on-weekday nil) (org-agenda-entry-types '(:scheduled)) (org-agenda-overriding-header Scheduled) (org-agenda-sorting-strategy '(priority-down time-down)) (org-agenda-skip-function '(org-agenda-skip-entry-if 'todo 'done (todo WAIT ((org-agenda-sorting-strategy '(priority-down)) (org-agenda-overriding-header Waiting For))) (todo NEXT ((org-agenda-sorting-strategy '(priority-down effort- down)) (org-agenda-skip-function '(org-agenda-skip-entry-if 'scheduled 'deadline)) (org-agenda-overriding-header Next actions not being scheduled nor having a deadline))) (todo TODO ((org-agenda-sorting-strategy '(priority-down effort- down)) (org-agenda-skip-function '(org-agenda-skip-entry-if 'scheduled 'deadline)) (org-agenda-overriding-header Future actions not being scheduled nor having a deadline))) (todo PROJ ((org-agenda-overriding-header Active Projects))) Along with colors '(org-todo-keyword-faces (quote ((PROJ :foreground Orange :weight bold) (MSTN :foreground VioletRed :weight bold) (WAIT :foreground Blue :weight bold) (CNCL :foreground MediumSeaGreen :weight bold and '(org-enforce-todo-checkbox-dependencies t) '(org-enforce-todo-dependencies t) this works really well for GTD. Kind regards, Daniel Am Montag 10 Oktober 2011, 08:21:57 schrieb Marcelo de Moraes Serpa: Hey list, I'm wondering if you make the distinction between projects and actionable items. If you stop to think about it (specially if you read GTD by David Allen), you see that you can't really do a project, but only actions related to it. It's a powerful and underestimated concept. Of course, a todo list is still a reminder of things, and any list can be useful, but the more specific you are, the less you have to think (process) and the more you can actually execute. Anyway, I was wondering how you guys differentiate between projects and next actions (todo's) in your org lists. I myself use a :project: tag for projects and todos have todo keywords before them. Projects never have a todo keyword, except when DONE. I used to use a PROJECT keyword before, but I felt that a tag seems to work better (and allows you to actually filter todos without mixing projects). So, a typical list
Re: [O] What do you use to identify projects (in the GTD sense)
Hi Bernt Bernt Hansen be...@norang.ca writes: http://doc.norang.ca/org-mode.html#Projects Wow, that is a WONDERFUL page you shared with us. Thank you very much! It will cost me hours go through it and see what I can implement for my setup. Can't you think about others' time before posting such great stuff? Here is my setup and workflow: I'm quite an orthodox GTD user with one exception: I blended two concepts of ZTD (Zen to Done http://zenhabits.net/zen-to-done-ztd-the-ultimate-simple-productivity-system/) which is a mix of GTD and other systems. What I took from it is the two tags :MIT: (Most important thing of the day) and :BIGROCK: (Most important project of the week). Usually MITs are Next Steps which I do as early as possible during the day, normally there are two or three of them each day. Bigrocks are privileged projects which I return to most often, I usually have one or two of them per week. I use one main org-file. Spheres of responsibility are top level headings containing neither tags nor todo-keywords: , | * Termine (contains only appointments) | * Teaching | * Institute | * Research Department | * Research Consortium | * Personal Research | * Readings | * Home Projects | * Friends | * Someday/Maybe | * Stuff to remember (here for example birthdays are defined) ` The second level contains projects which are tagged with :PROJECT:. The third level are associated next steps containing a resource tag. , | * Institute | ** Major Book Order :PROJECT: | *** DONE Advertise a position for a coordinator :OFFICE: | *** WAITING Wait for applications :OFFICE: | *** Choose an appropriate person:OFFICE: | *** Call a meeting :OFFICE: | *** Set up delegation project for supervision :OFFICE: ` As you see, only the first two steps contain a todo-keyword. This is because the second step is running at the moment and cannot choose a person before the position was actually advertised and the application deadline has come. I use triggers to set the next step to the appropriate state when the previous step is marked DONE: , | *** WAITING Wait for applications :OFFICE: | :PROPERTIES: | :TRIGGER: chain-siblings(NEXT) | :END: | *** Choose an appropriate person:OFFICE: ` So, after the application deadline has come, I mark the WAITING entry DONE and the next entry is automatically set to NEXT. After this is DONE, Call a meeting will be set to NEXT. , | *** DONE Wait for applications :OFFICE: | *** NEXT Choose an appropriate person :OFFICE: | :PROPERTIES: | :TRIGGER: chain-siblings(NEXT) | :END: | *** Call a meeting :OFFICE: ` In this way my agenda view for NEXT actions at OFFICE contains only actions which can actually be done immediately. I use to revise my project lists on a daily base. This is the first thing I do in the morning. It takes about 15 minutes. This is not orthodox GTD behavior but only this way a can make my mind free and be sure that I don't forget deadlines and don't neglect projects. I have a special entry for this revision that appears on top of my day-agenda-view: , | Dienstag 11 Oktober 2011 |8:00.. |9:23.. now - - - - - - - - - - - - |10:00.. |12:00.. | diary: 14:00-15:00 Meeting with Mrs. Smith |14:00.. |16:00.. | Termine:18:00-20:00 Central Asia group meeting :MEETING: |20:00.. | DailyTasks: Scheduled: REGULAR Daily Review [0/7] | HomeProjects:Scheduled: REGULAR Water flowers :HOME: ` I have a special keyword for regular tasks because I don't like them to appear in NEXT lists. These regular tasks always have a schedule and therefore appear only in the day-agenda: , | ** REGULAR Daily Review [0/7] |SCHEDULED: 2011-10-10 Mo .+1d |:PROPERTIES: |:REPEAT_TO_STATE: REGULAR |:END: |- [ ] review daily agenda |- [ ] review Waiting |- [ ] review Delegated |- [ ] review Projects |- [ ] review Stuck Projects |- [ ] review Bigrocks |- [ ] make new MITs from | - [ ] OFFICE | - [ ] HOME | - [ ] SCHRIESHEIM | - [ ] PHONE | - [ ] READING ` For distant projects I have the Someday/Maybe category: , | ** Send documents to tax adviser | NOT_STARTED | *** Start Project | SCHEDULED: 2012-01-02 Mo | *** Gather documents :HOME: | :PROPERTIES: | :TRIGGER: chain-siblings(NEXT) | :END: | *** Copy documents :OFFICE: | *** Prepare letter :HOME: | *** Send letter:SHOPPING: ` These future projects contain the
[O] What do you use to identify projects (in the GTD sense)
Hey list, I'm wondering if you make the distinction between projects and actionable items. If you stop to think about it (specially if you read GTD by David Allen), you see that you can't really do a project, but only actions related to it. It's a powerful and underestimated concept. Of course, a todo list is still a reminder of things, and any list can be useful, but the more specific you are, the less you have to think (process) and the more you can actually execute. Anyway, I was wondering how you guys differentiate between projects and next actions (todo's) in your org lists. I myself use a :project: tag for projects and todos have todo keywords before them. Projects never have a todo keyword, except when DONE. I used to use a PROJECT keyword before, but I felt that a tag seems to work better (and allows you to actually filter todos without mixing projects). So, a typical list looks like this: * New feature :project: ** TODO Create a mockup for the index page ** TODO Convert the mockup to html * Renew passport :project: ** DONE Call for appointment ** TODO Interveiw SCHEDULED ... ** DONE Buy groceries :project: ... How do you do it? Thanks in advance, - Marcelo.
Re: [O] What do you use to identify projects (in the GTD sense)
Hello, I use a todo keyword PROJ and a custom block agenda, that filters different interesting groups for review. (setq org-agenda-custom-commands '((g My GTD Agenda ((agenda ((org-agenda-ndays 1) (org-agenda-start-on-weekday nil) (org-agenda-entry-types '(:timestamp :sexp)) (org-agenda-overriding-header Appointments))) (agenda ((org-agenda-ndays 1) (org-agenda-start-on-weekday nil) (org-agenda-entry-types '(:deadline)) (org-agenda-overriding-header Upcoming Deadlines) (org-agenda-sorting-strategy '(priority-down time-down)) (org-agenda-skip-function '(org-agenda-skip-entry-if 'todo 'done (agenda ((org-agenda-ndays 1) (org-agenda-start-on-weekday nil) (org-agenda-entry-types '(:scheduled)) (org-agenda-overriding-header Scheduled) (org-agenda-sorting-strategy '(priority-down time-down)) (org-agenda-skip-function '(org-agenda-skip-entry-if 'todo 'done (todo WAIT ((org-agenda-sorting-strategy '(priority-down)) (org-agenda-overriding-header Waiting For))) (todo NEXT ((org-agenda-sorting-strategy '(priority-down effort- down)) (org-agenda-skip-function '(org-agenda-skip-entry-if 'scheduled 'deadline)) (org-agenda-overriding-header Next actions not being scheduled nor having a deadline))) (todo TODO ((org-agenda-sorting-strategy '(priority-down effort- down)) (org-agenda-skip-function '(org-agenda-skip-entry-if 'scheduled 'deadline)) (org-agenda-overriding-header Future actions not being scheduled nor having a deadline))) (todo PROJ ((org-agenda-overriding-header Active Projects))) Along with colors '(org-todo-keyword-faces (quote ((PROJ :foreground Orange :weight bold) (MSTN :foreground VioletRed :weight bold) (WAIT :foreground Blue :weight bold) (CNCL :foreground MediumSeaGreen :weight bold and '(org-enforce-todo-checkbox-dependencies t) '(org-enforce-todo-dependencies t) this works really well for GTD. Kind regards, Daniel Am Montag 10 Oktober 2011, 08:21:57 schrieb Marcelo de Moraes Serpa: Hey list, I'm wondering if you make the distinction between projects and actionable items. If you stop to think about it (specially if you read GTD by David Allen), you see that you can't really do a project, but only actions related to it. It's a powerful and underestimated concept. Of course, a todo list is still a reminder of things, and any list can be useful, but the more specific you are, the less you have to think (process) and the more you can actually execute. Anyway, I was wondering how you guys differentiate between projects and next actions (todo's) in your org lists. I myself use a :project: tag for projects and todos have todo keywords before them. Projects never have a todo keyword, except when DONE. I used to use a PROJECT keyword before, but I felt that a tag seems to work better (and allows you to actually filter todos without mixing projects). So, a typical list looks like this: * New feature :project: ** TODO Create a mockup for the index page ** TODO Convert the mockup to html * Renew passport :project: ** DONE Call for appointment ** TODO Interveiw SCHEDULED ... ** DONE Buy groceries :project: ... How do you do it? Thanks in advance, - Marcelo.
Re: [O] What do you use to identify projects (in the GTD sense)
Hi Daneil, Looks interesting. Could you share a sample tree with projects and actions? Cheers, - Marcelo. On Mon, Oct 10, 2011 at 6:30 AM, Daniel Bausch danielbau...@gmx.de wrote: Hello, I use a todo keyword PROJ and a custom block agenda, that filters different interesting groups for review. (setq org-agenda-custom-commands '((g My GTD Agenda ((agenda ((org-agenda-ndays 1) (org-agenda-start-on-weekday nil) (org-agenda-entry-types '(:timestamp :sexp)) (org-agenda-overriding-header Appointments))) (agenda ((org-agenda-ndays 1) (org-agenda-start-on-weekday nil) (org-agenda-entry-types '(:deadline)) (org-agenda-overriding-header Upcoming Deadlines) (org-agenda-sorting-strategy '(priority-down time-down)) (org-agenda-skip-function '(org-agenda-skip-entry-if 'todo 'done (agenda ((org-agenda-ndays 1) (org-agenda-start-on-weekday nil) (org-agenda-entry-types '(:scheduled)) (org-agenda-overriding-header Scheduled) (org-agenda-sorting-strategy '(priority-down time-down)) (org-agenda-skip-function '(org-agenda-skip-entry-if 'todo 'done (todo WAIT ((org-agenda-sorting-strategy '(priority-down)) (org-agenda-overriding-header Waiting For))) (todo NEXT ((org-agenda-sorting-strategy '(priority-down effort- down)) (org-agenda-skip-function '(org-agenda-skip-entry-if 'scheduled 'deadline)) (org-agenda-overriding-header Next actions not being scheduled nor having a deadline))) (todo TODO ((org-agenda-sorting-strategy '(priority-down effort- down)) (org-agenda-skip-function '(org-agenda-skip-entry-if 'scheduled 'deadline)) (org-agenda-overriding-header Future actions not being scheduled nor having a deadline))) (todo PROJ ((org-agenda-overriding-header Active Projects))) Along with colors '(org-todo-keyword-faces (quote ((PROJ :foreground Orange :weight bold) (MSTN :foreground VioletRed :weight bold) (WAIT :foreground Blue :weight bold) (CNCL :foreground MediumSeaGreen :weight bold and '(org-enforce-todo-checkbox-dependencies t) '(org-enforce-todo-dependencies t) this works really well for GTD. Kind regards, Daniel Am Montag 10 Oktober 2011, 08:21:57 schrieb Marcelo de Moraes Serpa: Hey list, I'm wondering if you make the distinction between projects and actionable items. If you stop to think about it (specially if you read GTD by David Allen), you see that you can't really do a project, but only actions related to it. It's a powerful and underestimated concept. Of course, a todo list is still a reminder of things, and any list can be useful, but the more specific you are, the less you have to think (process) and the more you can actually execute. Anyway, I was wondering how you guys differentiate between projects and next actions (todo's) in your org lists. I myself use a :project: tag for projects and todos have todo keywords before them. Projects never have a todo keyword, except when DONE. I used to use a PROJECT keyword before, but I felt that a tag seems to work better (and allows you to actually filter todos without mixing projects). So, a typical list looks like this: * New feature :project: ** TODO Create a mockup for the index page ** TODO Convert the mockup to html * Renew passport :project: ** DONE Call for appointment ** TODO Interveiw SCHEDULED ... ** DONE Buy groceries :project: ... How do you do it? Thanks in advance, - Marcelo.
Re: [O] What do you use to identify projects (in the GTD sense)
Marcelo de Moraes Serpa celose...@gmail.com writes: I'm wondering if you make the distinction between projects and actionable items. How do you do it? http://doc.norang.ca/org-mode.html#Projects -Bernt
