Re: [Orgmode] [Bug] Level 2 text not exported in LaTeX (well in HTML) + some comments

2010-09-22 Thread Carsten Dominik


On Sep 19, 2010, at 11:24 AM, Nicolas Goaziou wrote:


Eric S Fraga writes:



So you are saying, if I understand you correctly, that you cannot
have something like this:



--8---cut here---start-8---
1. some text
  - a nested list
  - with two items
  some more text for the first numbered item
  - another nested list - with two items
2. the second outer list item
--8---cut here---end---8---


Exactly.


If so, why not? This would seem to be quite a likely and useful
scenario.


It would require a slightly different model with an added depth of
complexity. To tell the truth, I had looked into this, but hadn't
found a satisfying (clean) solution.


One clean solution I can think of is to allow terminating a list with
a special item, like

   - one
 - a
 - b
 - @   (this means sublist ends here)

One could also have - @ to mean closing two levels.

This would allow stable indentation control.

- Carsten



For example, how should Org handle indentation of such a line, or any
line within the list? Should it round the indentation to the closest
level of a sub-list? And if you add a new line, should the user insert
spaces to reach the desired level of sub-list, or should Org TAB-cycle
indentation through every level of the list? Wouldn't this be painful
on deeply nested lists? If the list is so long that you can't display
it's first items, what happens when you want to end the 4th of 6
sub-lists? Could you remember what proper indentation is needed?

Those questions are more rhetorical than anything else. My point is
just that this kind of scenario, while certainly doable, would need
more thought, and much more work to implement. Is it _that_ useful?


I do this all the time in latex and I was sure that I had done this
before in org. Is my recollection wrong? Was this not possible
before?


As far as I remember, LaTeX exporter has never been able to parse
this, though the HTML one did.

Note that a TAB on your line of text was (i.e. in the latest stable
release) indenting it past the second nested list item. That signifies
even Org wasn't understanding properly the meaning of your list.

Regards,

-- Nicolas

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- Carsten




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Re: [Orgmode] [Bug] Level 2 text not exported in LaTeX (well in HTML) + some comments

2010-09-20 Thread Eric S Fraga
On Sun, 19 Sep 2010 11:24:09 +0200, Nicolas Goaziou n.goaz...@gmail.com wrote:
 
  Eric S Fraga writes:
 
  So you are saying, if I understand you correctly, that you cannot
  have something like this:
 
  --8---cut here---start-8--- 
  1. some text
 - a nested list
 - with two items
 some more text for the first numbered item
 - another nested list - with two items
  2. the second outer list item 
  --8---cut here---end---8---
 
 Exactly.
 
  If so, why not? This would seem to be quite a likely and useful
  scenario.
 
 It would require a slightly different model with an added depth of
 complexity. To tell the truth, I had looked into this, but hadn't
 found a satisfying (clean) solution.

Okay.

 For example, how should Org handle indentation of such a line, or any
 line within the list? Should it round the indentation to the closest
 level of a sub-list? 

Good question!  I don't know the answer to this.

[...]

 Those questions are more rhetorical than anything else. My point is
 just that this kind of scenario, while certainly doable, would need
 more thought, and much more work to implement. Is it _that_ useful?

I think it would be useful but not having it is definitely not a show
stopper!  It has come up as an issue for me recently because I have
been managing the writing of a proposal with contributions from many
authors and some of those authors like having multiple lists within
other lists.  It was when exporting a draft of the whole document that
I realised that I was losing text, but I only noticed this because I
lost a whole section which was several pages long!

I think the key is not necessarily to support multiple sub-lists
within an item but to *ensure* that no text is lost in export.  I can
see at a glance possibly whether text is formatted correctly but I
cannot tell as easily that text has been lost in export.  When working
on a 30+ page document, this is crucial.  

From your previous message, it sounds like you have a fix for the lost
text issue; that would be the main improvement for my usage.

  I do this all the time in latex and I was sure that I had done this
  before in org. Is my recollection wrong? Was this not possible
  before?
 
 As far as I remember, LaTeX exporter has never been able to parse
 this, though the HTML one did.

That could very well be.

Thanks,
eric
-- 
Eric S Fraga
GnuPG: 8F5C 279D 3907 E14A 5C29  570D C891 93D8 FFFC F67D
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Re: [Orgmode] [Bug] Level 2 text not exported in LaTeX (well in HTML) + some comments

2010-09-19 Thread Nicolas Goaziou
 Eric S Fraga writes:

 So you are saying, if I understand you correctly, that you cannot
 have something like this:

 --8---cut here---start-8--- 
 1. some text
- a nested list
- with two items
some more text for the first numbered item
- another nested list - with two items
 2. the second outer list item 
 --8---cut here---end---8---

Exactly.

 If so, why not? This would seem to be quite a likely and useful
 scenario.

It would require a slightly different model with an added depth of
complexity. To tell the truth, I had looked into this, but hadn't
found a satisfying (clean) solution.

For example, how should Org handle indentation of such a line, or any
line within the list? Should it round the indentation to the closest
level of a sub-list? And if you add a new line, should the user insert
spaces to reach the desired level of sub-list, or should Org TAB-cycle
indentation through every level of the list? Wouldn't this be painful
on deeply nested lists? If the list is so long that you can't display
it's first items, what happens when you want to end the 4th of 6
sub-lists? Could you remember what proper indentation is needed?

Those questions are more rhetorical than anything else. My point is
just that this kind of scenario, while certainly doable, would need
more thought, and much more work to implement. Is it _that_ useful?

 I do this all the time in latex and I was sure that I had done this
 before in org. Is my recollection wrong? Was this not possible
 before?

As far as I remember, LaTeX exporter has never been able to parse
this, though the HTML one did.

Note that a TAB on your line of text was (i.e. in the latest stable
release) indenting it past the second nested list item. That signifies
even Org wasn't understanding properly the meaning of your list.

Regards,

-- Nicolas

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Re: [Orgmode] [Bug] Level 2 text not exported in LaTeX (well in HTML) + some comments

2010-09-18 Thread Nicolas Goaziou
Hello,

 Sébastien Vauban writes:

 1) Ask for it.

 2) Make it, answering the following questions:

- Got the docs?
- Signed them?
- Checked it?

THIS LINE DOES NOT SHOW UP in LaTeX!!!

The whole list should indeed end at this line. I sent a patch
correcting this.

 * Other remarks

 - Before, if I remember good, the sequence of list levels was: =-=,
   =+=, =*=, =1.= and =1)=. Now, the last two have been inverted:
   first, =1)=, then =1.=. Just a tiny detail (was used to it).

I hadn't noticed that before and the doc-string of
`org-cycle-list-bullet' says you are right. Fixed.

 - When =S-right arrowing= this line twice, I *sometimes* get my list
   items transformed into headlines... Though, I cannot repeat with as
   many times as I want... Conditions still strange to me.

I cannot reproduce it at the moment. Please tell me if you have more
data about it.

Regards,

-- Nicolas

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Re: [Orgmode] [Bug] Level 2 text not exported in LaTeX (well in HTML) + some comments

2010-09-18 Thread Nicolas Goaziou
Hello,

 Eric S Fraga writes:

 However, more strange behaviour appears as soon as you have multiple
 nested lists.

Just to avoid any misconception: if I get it correctly, what you do
call multiple nested lists cannot exist.

You can have nested lists, but no more than one sub-list at each
level. As soon as a line is less indented than the preceding item of
the list, *all* sub-lists end at that line.

Regards,

-- Nicolas

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Re: [Orgmode] [Bug] Level 2 text not exported in LaTeX (well in HTML) + some comments

2010-09-18 Thread Eric S Fraga
On Sat, 18 Sep 2010 20:02:24 +0200, Nicolas Goaziou n.goaz...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 Hello,
 
  Eric S Fraga writes:
 
  However, more strange behaviour appears as soon as you have multiple
  nested lists.
 
 Just to avoid any misconception: if I get it correctly, what you do
 call multiple nested lists cannot exist.
 
 You can have nested lists, but no more than one sub-list at each
 level. As soon as a line is less indented than the preceding item of
 the list, *all* sub-lists end at that line.
 
 Regards,
 
 -- Nicolas

So you are saying, if I understand you correctly, that you cannot have
something like this:

--8---cut here---start-8---
1. some text

   - a nested list
   - with two items

   some more text for the first numbered item

   - another nested list
   - with two items

2. the second outer list item
--8---cut here---end---8---

If so, why not?  This would seem to be quite a likely and useful
scenario.  

I do this all the time in latex and I was sure that I had done this
before in org.  Is my recollection wrong?  Was this not possible
before?
-- 
Eric S Fraga
GnuPG: 8F5C 279D 3907 E14A 5C29  570D C891 93D8 FFFC F67D
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[Orgmode] [Bug] Level 2 text not exported in LaTeX (well in HTML) + some comments

2010-09-17 Thread Sébastien Vauban
Hi Nicolas,

--8---cut here---start-8---
#+TITLE: Problems in LaTeX with nested list levels
#+LANGUAGE:  en_US

* Imaginary example

We have two steps:

1) Ask for it.

2) Make it, answering the following questions:

   - Got the docs?
   - Signed them?
   - Checked it?

   THIS LINE DOES NOT SHOW UP in LaTeX!!!

After the 2-steps model, we...

* Other remarks

- Before, if I remember good, the sequence of list levels was: =-=, =+=, =*=,
  =1.= and =1)=. Now, the last two have been inverted: first, =1)=, then =1.=.
  Just a tiny detail (was used to it).

- When =S-right arrowing= this line twice, I *sometimes* get my list items
  transformed into headlines... Though, I cannot repeat with as many times as
  I want... Conditions still strange to me.

* Variables

In my =.emacs= file, I have:

#+begin_src emacs-lisp
;; an empty line does not end all plain list levels
(setq org-empty-line-terminates-plain-lists nil)

;; default value
(setq org-list-ending-method 'both)
#+end_src
--8---cut here---end---8---

Best regards,
  Seb

-- 
Sébastien Vauban


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Re: [Orgmode] [Bug] Level 2 text not exported in LaTeX (well in HTML) + some comments

2010-09-17 Thread Eric S Fraga
On Fri, 17 Sep 2010 15:01:58 +0200, Sébastien Vauban 
wxhgmqzgw...@spammotel.com wrote:
 
 Hi Nicolas,
 
 --8---cut here---start-8---
 #+TITLE: Problems in LaTeX with nested list levels
 #+LANGUAGE:  en_US
 
 * Imaginary example
 
 We have two steps:
 
 1) Ask for it.
 
 2) Make it, answering the following questions:
 
- Got the docs?
- Signed them?
- Checked it?
 
THIS LINE DOES NOT SHOW UP in LaTeX!!!

I can confirm this with:

: Org-mode version 7.01trans (release_7.01h.514.g878d)
: GNU Emacs 23.2.1 (i486-pc-linux-gnu, GTK+ Version 2.20.0)
:  of 2010-08-14 on raven, modified by Debian

it appears the nested lists within an item that is to continue makes
all remaining text within that item disappear.  I actually had this
problem three days ago with a very large document in which whole
sections disappeared but, as it was 3am, I thought it was me doing
something silly.

if the line after the nested list is not indented, it appears in the
exported file albeit not part of the enumerated list.

However, more strange behaviour appears as soon as you have multiple
nested lists.  Consider this org snippet:

--8---cut here---start-8---
Consider the following list:

1. the first numbered item
   - the first item
   - the second
   - not the fourth

   followed by some paragraph that is indented which disappears on latex export.

   - another nested list but this appears in the outer list
   - as does this!

   and some more text which does appear.

and now something that is not indented.
--8---cut here---end---8---

this generates:

--8---cut here---start-8---
Consider the following list:

\begin{itemize}
\item the first numbered item

\begin{itemize}
\item the first item
\item the second
\item not the fourth
\end{itemize}

\item another nested list but this appears in the outer list
\item as does this

   and some more text which does appear.
\end{itemize}

and now something that is not indented.
--8---cut here---end---8---

notice that the outer list is itemize and not enumerate.

 #+begin_src emacs-lisp
 ;; an empty line does not end all plain list levels
 (setq org-empty-line-terminates-plain-lists nil)
 
 ;; default value
 (setq org-list-ending-method 'both)
 #+end_src

I have these same settings.
-- 
Eric S Fraga
GnuPG: 8F5C 279D 3907 E14A 5C29  570D C891 93D8 FFFC F67D
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