Re: [Orgmode] An Org-mode clone for Vim
Herbert, this is fantastic news. My background is mainly with Vim, but I am very open to learning other software. I can understand people who don't want to relearn keybindings, etc, but I work on many platforms and have that problem all the time anyway :-). I'm a member of a vim-geeks group in St. Louis, and I demoed Org-mode to them last week. The idea of implementing org-mode in Vim was brought up, and I'm sure there are some very talented Vim-scripters in our group who would be interested in your plugin/org-mode system. I'll forward this thread to the vim-geeks group -- please keep up your effort! I think it would be fun to be able to really use org-mode from inside Vim. In addition, we might be able to help you implement some features, or provide feedback. --Nate On Fri, Nov 5, 2010 at 2:39 PM, Herbert Sitz hs...@nwlink.com wrote: I've been working on a Vim plugin that is file-compatible with Org-mode and that clones a good subset of features. It's gotten to the point where I'd like to put it up on Github and see if anyone wants to use it and/or help develop it with me. So far I've implemented a good subset of Org's functionality and, though it has a few rough edges, right now it could be perfectly usable for certain people out there who prefer Vim as a text editor, but who have been drawn to Emacs' Org-mode because of its features. My project isn't at the point where it has all the features or the polish of Org-mode, but many Org-mode users use only a small subset of Org. For people who prefer Vim and have subsets coinciding with my project it could be an option. I've made a video showing what it looks like and demonstrating some of the basic outlining stuff. I just uploaded it to Vimeo, and it tells me it will be available for viewing in a couple hours (i.e., around 3:15pm PST today, Friday Nov. 5,2010). When available it will be viewable at this link: http://vimeo.com/16543959 For someone who asks, 'Why would you bother to do this for Vim when it's already done in Emacs?, I would have these responses: 1. A lot of people don't like Emacs. It is of course an insanely powerful piece of software, but a lot of people can never get accustomed to the chord-key command system, or if they do get semi-accustomed they don't like it or it causes them physical pain. 2. Some people are of the opinion that, while Emacs is admittedly a great operating system/development environment, it lacks a decent text editor. ;) 3. Emacs and Vim (or Vim and Emacs) are king and queen atop the pile of text editors. What one has the other should have to, to the extent possible. 4. I consider myself a Vim person, but I moved to Org-mode and Emacs myself (made almost palatable to me by Viper and Vimpulse) because I wanted to be able to publish outlines to PDF and HTML. Vim has a couple decent outliners but nobody has bothered to create good export systems for quality output. I had written some (non-publishing-related) extensions for one of the Vim outliners and I knew it wouldn't be that hard to write something in Vim that was file-compatible with Org-mode, which would then be able to publish to PDF and HTML simply by calling out to an Emacs server. This was my original goal and it's done and works great. 5. As I did some work I became more curious about all the task management and organization features in Org-mode, and how they might be implemented in Vim. So I started coding up stuff for the various Org searches, agenda views, sparse trees, column views, date management, etc. This is actually fun to do and Vim is well-suited for doing it. So I've kept going. I'm hoping someone else might have an interest in doing this with me. 6. As I said in 5., developing this stuff is fun. That's about it. If there's any interest I'll do more videos showing how other Org-mode features have been implemented in the Vim plugin, and where they stand right now in the Vim plugin compared to Org-mode. Regards, Herb Sitz Seattle, WA ___ Emacs-orgmode mailing list Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode ___ Emacs-orgmode mailing list Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
Re: [Orgmode] An Org-mode clone for Vim
Herbert, Wow! Thanks. great work. I really like the org-mode functionality, but I just can't get my head to grasp the whole emacs philosophy and series of key chords. I am a long time user of vi and have tried many a time over the years to pick up using emacs, but it always took a lot of effort and always eventually fizzled out, as I was faster and more productive with vi. But I never had a 'every day' need like using org-mode that might have kept me on track. But your effort is very timely for me, as I was already slipping away from using org-mode in emacs, as the whole emacs overhead was undoing the productivity gains org-mode was buying me. Keep up the good work, and please let use know , with a link posted here, when the code is up on github and we can start using and cleaning it. Thanks -- Urs Rau ___ Emacs-orgmode mailing list Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
Re: [Orgmode] An Org-mode clone for Vim
Hi Herbert, this looks pretty amazing - I had no feeling for how much would be possible in vim. I believe that this will make some people quite happy, and I also think that it is a smart move to avoid publishing headaches by calling out to Emacs. I too like the number of hidden lines instead of ellipses for the outlining and some other little things. I hope that you'll keep us up to date here - it looks like we will be able to learn a few things from your work. Congratulations - Carsten On Nov 5, 2010, at 8:39 PM, Herbert Sitz wrote: I've been working on a Vim plugin that is file-compatible with Org- mode and that clones a good subset of features. It's gotten to the point where I'd like to put it up on Github and see if anyone wants to use it and/or help develop it with me. So far I've implemented a good subset of Org's functionality and, though it has a few rough edges, right now it could be perfectly usable for certain people out there who prefer Vim as a text editor, but who have been drawn to Emacs' Org-mode because of its features. My project isn't at the point where it has all the features or the polish of Org-mode, but many Org-mode users use only a small subset of Org. For people who prefer Vim and have subsets coinciding with my project it could be an option. I've made a video showing what it looks like and demonstrating some of the basic outlining stuff. I just uploaded it to Vimeo, and it tells me it will be available for viewing in a couple hours (i.e., around 3:15pm PST today, Friday Nov. 5,2010). When available it will be viewable at this link: http://vimeo.com/16543959 For someone who asks, 'Why would you bother to do this for Vim when it's already done in Emacs?, I would have these responses: 1. A lot of people don't like Emacs. It is of course an insanely powerful piece of software, but a lot of people can never get accustomed to the chord-key command system, or if they do get semi-accustomed they don't like it or it causes them physical pain. 2. Some people are of the opinion that, while Emacs is admittedly a great operating system/development environment, it lacks a decent text editor. ;) 3. Emacs and Vim (or Vim and Emacs) are king and queen atop the pile of text editors. What one has the other should have to, to the extent possible. 4. I consider myself a Vim person, but I moved to Org-mode and Emacs myself (made almost palatable to me by Viper and Vimpulse) because I wanted to be able to publish outlines to PDF and HTML. Vim has a couple decent outliners but nobody has bothered to create good export systems for quality output. I had written some (non-publishing-related) extensions for one of the Vim outliners and I knew it wouldn't be that hard to write something in Vim that was file-compatible with Org-mode, which would then be able to publish to PDF and HTML simply by calling out to an Emacs server. This was my original goal and it's done and works great. 5. As I did some work I became more curious about all the task management and organization features in Org-mode, and how they might be implemented in Vim. So I started coding up stuff for the various Org searches, agenda views, sparse trees, column views, date management, etc. This is actually fun to do and Vim is well-suited for doing it. So I've kept going. I'm hoping someone else might have an interest in doing this with me. 6. As I said in 5., developing this stuff is fun. That's about it. If there's any interest I'll do more videos showing how other Org-mode features have been implemented in the Vim plugin, and where they stand right now in the Vim plugin compared to Org-mode. Regards, Herb Sitz Seattle, WA ___ Emacs-orgmode mailing list Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode ___ Emacs-orgmode mailing list Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
Re: [Orgmode] An Org-mode clone for Vim
Hi, congratulation to such an excellent project! Herbert Sitz hs...@nwlink.com writes: I've been working on a Vim plugin that is file-compatible with Org-mode and that clones a good subset of features. It's gotten to the point where I'd like to put it up on Github and see if anyone wants to use it and/or help develop it with me. So far I've implemented a good subset of Org's functionality and, though it has a few rough edges, right now it could be perfectly usable for certain people out there who prefer Vim as a text editor, but who have been drawn to Emacs' Org-mode because of its features. My project isn't at the point where it has all the features or the polish of Org-mode, but many Org-mode users use only a small subset of Org. For people who prefer Vim and have subsets coinciding with my project it could be an option. I've made a video showing what it looks like and demonstrating some of the basic outlining stuff. I just uploaded it to Vimeo, and it tells me it will be available for viewing in a couple hours (i.e., around 3:15pm PST today, Friday Nov. 5,2010). When available it will be viewable at this link: http://vimeo.com/16543959 For someone who asks, 'Why would you bother to do this for Vim when it's already done in Emacs?, I would have these responses: 1. A lot of people don't like Emacs. It is of course an insanely powerful piece of software, but a lot of people can never get accustomed to the chord-key command system, or if they do get semi-accustomed they don't like it or it causes them physical pain. 2. Some people are of the opinion that, while Emacs is admittedly a great operating system/development environment, it lacks a decent text editor. ;) 3. Emacs and Vim (or Vim and Emacs) are king and queen atop the pile of text editors. What one has the other should have to, to the extent possible. 4. I consider myself a Vim person, but I moved to Org-mode and Emacs myself (made almost palatable to me by Viper and Vimpulse) because I wanted to be able to publish outlines to PDF and HTML. Vim has a couple decent outliners but nobody has bothered to create good export systems for quality output. I had written some (non-publishing-related) extensions for one of the Vim outliners and I knew it wouldn't be that hard to write something in Vim that was file-compatible with Org-mode, which would then be able to publish to PDF and HTML simply by calling out to an Emacs server. This was my original goal and it's done and works great. I complete understand your point here, I did the tiniest possible bit of org-mode emulation in vim, by my self. After more then 10 years of emacs, I came to realize they beauty and efficiency of the modal input model used by vim. Since then, I've tried to either make emacs behave like vim or to make vim behave like emacs. My current approach is to use emacs with viper+vimpulse+viper-in-more-modes+self_written adaptions and there are still many things which require to type long chords of shortcuts. I am looking forward to try your vim plugin, since I still use vim for quick editing tasks. 5. As I did some work I became more curious about all the task management and organization features in Org-mode, and how they might be implemented in Vim. So I started coding up stuff for the various Org searches, agenda views, sparse trees, column views, date management, etc. This is actually fun to do and Vim is well-suited for doing it. So I've kept going. I'm hoping someone else might have an interest in doing this with me. 6. As I said in 5., developing this stuff is fun. That's about it. If there's any interest I'll do more videos showing how other Org-mode features have been implemented in the Vim plugin, and where they stand right now in the Vim plugin compared to Org-mode. I am definitly interested. Keep up the good work. Regards, Jean-Marie ___ Emacs-orgmode mailing list Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
Re: [Orgmode] An Org-mode clone for Vim
Hi Ryan, A. Ryan Reynolds a.ryan.reyno...@gmail.com writes: onethingwell.org just finished a week's worth of coverage on vim outliners. I don't use vim, so I'm not particularly invested, but introducing another one to the vim people might be a hard sell; there already seem to be quite a number of options available on that platform. On the other hand, if you can replicate all of Org's features I've no doubt you'll succeed in winning them over! And in any case, doing something for fun is a reward by itself. I've tried most vim outliners in spring. And I doubt it'll be a hard sell. Most of them were dead or simply not comparable to org's easy and intuitive way of outlining. For example, TVO -- The Vim Outliner [1] -- , which is most often referenced as the standard and most powerfull vim outliner plugin, is basically dead. Last release happened in 2006. Regards, Jean-Marie [1] http://bike-nomad.com/vim/vimoutliner.html ___ Emacs-orgmode mailing list Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
[Orgmode] An Org-mode clone for Vim
I've been working on a Vim plugin that is file-compatible with Org-mode and that clones a good subset of features. It's gotten to the point where I'd like to put it up on Github and see if anyone wants to use it and/or help develop it with me. So far I've implemented a good subset of Org's functionality and, though it has a few rough edges, right now it could be perfectly usable for certain people out there who prefer Vim as a text editor, but who have been drawn to Emacs' Org-mode because of its features. My project isn't at the point where it has all the features or the polish of Org-mode, but many Org-mode users use only a small subset of Org. For people who prefer Vim and have subsets coinciding with my project it could be an option. I've made a video showing what it looks like and demonstrating some of the basic outlining stuff. I just uploaded it to Vimeo, and it tells me it will be available for viewing in a couple hours (i.e., around 3:15pm PST today, Friday Nov. 5,2010). When available it will be viewable at this link: http://vimeo.com/16543959 For someone who asks, 'Why would you bother to do this for Vim when it's already done in Emacs?, I would have these responses: 1. A lot of people don't like Emacs. It is of course an insanely powerful piece of software, but a lot of people can never get accustomed to the chord-key command system, or if they do get semi-accustomed they don't like it or it causes them physical pain. 2. Some people are of the opinion that, while Emacs is admittedly a great operating system/development environment, it lacks a decent text editor. ;) 3. Emacs and Vim (or Vim and Emacs) are king and queen atop the pile of text editors. What one has the other should have to, to the extent possible. 4. I consider myself a Vim person, but I moved to Org-mode and Emacs myself (made almost palatable to me by Viper and Vimpulse) because I wanted to be able to publish outlines to PDF and HTML. Vim has a couple decent outliners but nobody has bothered to create good export systems for quality output. I had written some (non-publishing-related) extensions for one of the Vim outliners and I knew it wouldn't be that hard to write something in Vim that was file-compatible with Org-mode, which would then be able to publish to PDF and HTML simply by calling out to an Emacs server. This was my original goal and it's done and works great. 5. As I did some work I became more curious about all the task management and organization features in Org-mode, and how they might be implemented in Vim. So I started coding up stuff for the various Org searches, agenda views, sparse trees, column views, date management, etc. This is actually fun to do and Vim is well-suited for doing it. So I've kept going. I'm hoping someone else might have an interest in doing this with me. 6. As I said in 5., developing this stuff is fun. That's about it. If there's any interest I'll do more videos showing how other Org-mode features have been implemented in the Vim plugin, and where they stand right now in the Vim plugin compared to Org-mode. Regards, Herb Sitz Seattle, WA ___ Emacs-orgmode mailing list Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
Re: [Orgmode] An Org-mode clone for Vim
onethingwell.org just finished a week's worth of coverage on vim outliners. I don't use vim, so I'm not particularly invested, but introducing another one to the vim people might be a hard sell; there already seem to be quite a number of options available on that platform. On the other hand, if you can replicate all of Org's features I've no doubt you'll succeed in winning them over! And in any case, doing something for fun is a reward by itself. -- A. Ryan Reynolds ___ Emacs-orgmode mailing list Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
Re: [Orgmode] An Org-mode clone for Vim
On Fri, Nov 5, 2010 at 2:39 PM, Herbert Sitz hs...@nwlink.com wrote: I've been working on a Vim plugin that is file-compatible with Org-mode and that clones a good subset of features... I've made a video showing what it looks like and demonstrating some of the basic outlining stuff. I just uploaded it to Vimeo, and it tells me it will be available for viewing in a couple hours (i.e., around 3:15pm PST today, Friday Nov. 5,2010). When available it will be viewable at this link: http://vimeo.com/16543959 Wow! This is pretty neat. You've done some really cool things. For someone who asks, 'Why would you bother to do this for Vim when it's already done in Emacs?, I would have these responses: 1. A lot of people don't like Emacs. It is of course an insanely powerful piece of software, but a lot of people can never get accustomed to the chord-key command system, or if they do get semi-accustomed they don't like it or it causes them physical pain. I started learning emacs only for org-mode and have never really used vim except for editing a few config files when nano is not available. Since I started with emacs and it has what I want (org-mode), I can't think of a reason to learn yet another program with it's own set of shortcut oddities :) I can relate to the shortcuts... Sometimes two in a row involving ctrl makes me scratch my head. Though with emacs I'm pretty sure you can literally change *anything* you want. Also, since you're using the export features of org-mode, and as you said you can use vimperator or whatever to emulate vim keystrokes in emacs... is there anything *really* that you can do with the vim version that emacs can't do? I *completely* understand #5 below -- do it just to do it and it's fun. Other than that, though, aside from some navigation differences and the (#_of_lines) at the end of folded headers I was unsure what was to be different. Now you work in vim and just call org-mode to export? 2. Some people are of the opinion that, while Emacs is admittedly a great operating system/development environment, it lacks a decent text editor. ;) I've heard this but never understood what was being said. That's about it. If there's any interest I'll do more videos showing how other Org-mode features have been implemented in the Vim plugin, and where they stand right now in the Vim plugin compared to Org-mode. After watching the video, my favorites that might be cool to see in org-mode were: - (#_of_lines) instead of ... at the end of headings. Very, very cool. I like that. I also like that they were right flushed instead of right after the word. Kind of makes it quite easy to see where there is hidden information. This has come up before as a potential liability. There are workarounds, but I particularly liked yours! - Navigation. I *definitely *feel the emacs shortcut pain for certain things. I don't mind exporting. I'm so used to it that I do C-x C-s C-c C-e p without blinking to publish to PDF. *But*, I highly dislike things like C-c C-[n/p] or C-c C-[f/b] for navigating headlines. Your arrow navigation was appealing, perhaps only because I'm not as used to these shortcuts as others. I find myself using two finger scroll, pg[up/dn] and crtl+[right/left arrow] to move around much more than the emacs built-in shortcuts. As I said earlier, though, surely they can be changed... I just haven't. Great work and very cool project. Thanks for sharing and I really enjoyed the video! John Regards, Herb Sitz Seattle, WA ___ Emacs-orgmode mailing list Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode ___ Emacs-orgmode mailing list Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
Re: [Orgmode] An Org-mode clone for Vim
Hi Herbert, This is an amazing effort! I specially like the # of hidden lines on the right and the read only headlines when folded. I also felt editing the tree seemed more fluid in your version of org-mode. I will let my vim using friends know about this project. Do post back when you put the code on some publicly accessible repository. Hi John, On 5 November 2010 14:50, John Hendy jw.he...@gmail.com wrote: But, I highly dislike things like C-c C-[n/p] or C-c C-[f/b] for navigating headlines. Your arrow navigation was appealing, perhaps only because I'm not as used to these shortcuts as others. I find myself using two finger scroll, pg[up/dn] and crtl+[right/left arrow] to move around much more than the emacs built-in shortcuts. As I said earlier, though, surely they can be changed... I just haven't. Maybe this will help you tweak the navigation commands to your needs. https://github.com/suvayu/.emacs.d/blob/master/lisp/org-mode-settings.el#L81 -- Suvayu Open source is the future. It sets us free. ___ Emacs-orgmode mailing list Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
