Re: [Orgmode] Feature request [7.3]
At Wed, 08 Dec 2010 16:20:44 +, Eric S Fraga wrote: Dave Abrahams d...@boostpro.com writes: When using Org for planning, I often find myself corrupting my Org files. All kinds of things can go wrong, but the basic issue is that I do have a couple of rules I follow to avoid problems. 1. I usually have a blank line between the meta data (scheduled, properties) and any subsequent text, whether part of that entry or the following headline. I accomplish this by ensuring that my capture templates all insert such a blank line, typically followed by the date of insertion. Nice idea; I'll get right on it. 2. I also always use the =C-c C-d=, =C-c C-s= and =C-c C-x p= sequences to manage the meta data so org takes care of keeping things sane. Understood; I do that too ... well, sometimes I add properties manually but only because I forget the keybinding, and I always get that right because it's trivially easy. The problems creep in when I'm not watching carefully and typing fast, or maybe when my 3-year-old visits my keyboard, or... life happens. Then things can effectively drop off my TODO list silently, which is really problematic! I know there are ways to mitigate the risk, but I really want a new feature: in general I really don't want Org to *let* me edit most of the file as plain text most of the time. However: [...] So I'm requesting some more help from Org in maintaining proper Org syntax. Could Org have a mode that prevents things from being modified incorrectly? For example, it'd be awesome if dates were smart (TAB into one, hit return, get a smart date editor). This would be quite nice, even something as simple as having RET, within a time stamp, doing the equivalent of org-time-stamp or org-time-stamp-inactive depending on the current state of the time stamp. Right. But Org could be smart about the whole grammar of items and only allow freeform editing where it wouldn't do any serious damage. It'd be great if there were a way to make the ID property read-only (or really really hard to change). This is where column mode comes in quite handy? Link please? I tend to use column mode to edit properties and so I never come near the ID property as it usually isn't displayed. My properties are usually collapsed, so I usually don't see them either. But I don't want a special mode. I want org to understand and manage its own syntax. I'd love it if there were a way to create a link to an org item that narrows the view to just that item, so I don't inadvertently mess anything else up. org-narrow-to-subtree does some of this... Yes, some of it, but not all of it. But the point is that these are just examples. I think Org wasn't designed with the idea that it would end up having much of a grammar, but it grew one. I'm arguing for a UI re-think for the tool Org has become. -- Dave Abrahams BoostPro Computing http://www.boostpro.com ___ Emacs-orgmode mailing list Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
Re: [Orgmode] Feature request [7.3]
On Wed, Dec 8, 2010 at 2:29 AM, Dave Abrahams wrote: When using Org for planning, I often find myself corrupting my Org files. All kinds of things can go wrong, but the basic issue is that agenda items have a syntax, and it's easy to violate, especially when I'm going *fast*, which after all is what Org is supposed to enable! For example, a typical captured item looks like: ** TODO Set up yasnippet SCHEDULED: 2010-11-22 Mon :PROPERTIES: :Link: [[some-nasty-link]] :ID: A0B4159C-D796-40DF-9ADD-93DF03577B68 :END: [2010-11-20 Sat 20:17] Now, suppose I'm looking at this in the agenda and I want to add some commentary. I am not sure what you mean by agenda here since you don't see the full entry in the agenda. Where should I open the new line? If I choose wrongly, my agenda will start to misbehave (e.g. items will appear to be un-reschedulable because they'll acquire a second SCHEDULED date). When in the entry in org file, use `C-c C-z' and when in agenda just use `z' to add a correctly formatted and timestamped note. So I'm requesting some more help from Org in maintaining proper Org syntax. Could Org have a mode that prevents things from being modified incorrectly? For example, it'd be awesome if dates were smart (TAB into one, hit return, get a smart date editor). FWIW, I find shift+up/down arrow sufficiently magical for my use case, but I suppose you have already tried that. It'd be great if there were a way to make the ID property read-only (or really really hard to change). I'd love it if there were a way to create a link to an org item that narrows the view to just that item, so I don't inadvertently mess anything else up. Do you get the idea? You mean like if you clicked/returned on an item in agenda it should take you to the entry in org file but narrowed to that item? I had earlier added a call to org-narrow (I think) to the code that enables follow mode and the code that jumps to the entry in the org file. It used to work nice but was a minor irritation when I needed to widen it all the time. I have since lost the code but it should be reasonable easy to reproduce. HTH -- Manish ___ Emacs-orgmode mailing list Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
Re: [Orgmode] Feature request [7.3]
Dave Abrahams d...@boostpro.com writes: When using Org for planning, I often find myself corrupting my Org files. All kinds of things can go wrong, but the basic issue is that I do have a couple of rules I follow to avoid problems. 1. I usually have a blank line between the meta data (scheduled, properties) and any subsequent text, whether part of that entry or the following headline. I accomplish this by ensuring that my capture templates all insert such a blank line, typically followed by the date of insertion. 2. I also always use the =C-c C-d=, =C-c C-s= and =C-c C-x p= sequences to manage the meta data so org takes care of keeping things sane. However: [...] So I'm requesting some more help from Org in maintaining proper Org syntax. Could Org have a mode that prevents things from being modified incorrectly? For example, it'd be awesome if dates were smart (TAB into one, hit return, get a smart date editor). This would be quite nice, even something as simple as having RET, within a time stamp, doing the equivalent of org-time-stamp or org-time-stamp-inactive depending on the current state of the time stamp. It'd be great if there were a way to make the ID property read-only (or really really hard to change). This is where column mode comes in quite handy? I tend to use column mode to edit properties and so I never come near the ID property as it usually isn't displayed. I'd love it if there were a way to create a link to an org item that narrows the view to just that item, so I don't inadvertently mess anything else up. org-narrow-to-subtree does some of this... HTH, eric -- : Eric S Fraga (GnuPG: 0xC89193D8FFFCF67D) in Emacs 23.2.1 : using Org-mode version 7.3 (release_7.3.223.gc6a94) ___ Emacs-orgmode mailing list Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
Re: [Orgmode] Feature request [7.3]
At Wed, 8 Dec 2010 23:11:09 +0530, Manish wrote: Manish mailtomanish.sha...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [Orgmode] Feature request [7.3] Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2010 23:11:09 +0530 To: Dave Abrahams d...@boostpro.com Cc: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org Message-ID: aanlktikjaxo4bm1gbignzvjyzrddyrfqy_0vbwhcw...@mail.gmail.com On Wed, Dec 8, 2010 at 2:29 AM, Dave Abrahams wrote: When using Org for planning, I often find myself corrupting my Org files. All kinds of things can go wrong, but the basic issue is that agenda items have a syntax, and it's easy to violate, especially when I'm going *fast*, which after all is what Org is supposed to enable! For example, a typical captured item looks like: ** TODO Set up yasnippet SCHEDULED: 2010-11-22 Mon :PROPERTIES: :Link: [[some-nasty-link]] :ID: A0B4159C-D796-40DF-9ADD-93DF03577B68 :END: [2010-11-20 Sat 20:17] Now, suppose I'm looking at this in the agenda and I want to add some commentary. I am not sure what you mean by agenda here since you don't see the full entry in the agenda. Exactly. Sometimes I am dealing with agenda items from plain org. For example, if I've stored a link to the item and follow it from an agenda item, I end up in my todo.org file. Where should I open the new line? If I choose wrongly, my agenda will start to misbehave (e.g. items will appear to be un-reschedulable because they'll acquire a second SCHEDULED date). When in the entry in org file, use `C-c C-z' and when in agenda just use `z' to add a correctly formatted and timestamped note. Yes, I use those keys. The problem is that I edit fast, and an errant key here or there can blow the syntax of items to heck. So I'm requesting some more help from Org in maintaining proper Org syntax. Could Org have a mode that prevents things from being modified incorrectly? For example, it'd be awesome if dates were smart (TAB into one, hit return, get a smart date editor). FWIW, I find shift+up/down arrow sufficiently magical for my use case, but I suppose you have already tried that. Yes, I've tried all the simple things. I'm really asking for regular org to act more like the agenda in some ways. It'd be great if there were a way to make the ID property read-only (or really really hard to change). I'd love it if there were a way to create a link to an org item that narrows the view to just that item, so I don't inadvertently mess anything else up. Do you get the idea? You mean like if you clicked/returned on an item in agenda it should take you to the entry in org file but narrowed to that item? spacebar already does that. But if I have an *org link* to an [[id: ... ]] item and follow that I end up with no narrowing. I had earlier added a call to org-narrow (I think) to the code that enables follow mode and the code that jumps to the entry in the org file. It used to work nice but was a minor irritation when I needed to widen it all the time. I have since lost the code but it should be reasonable easy to reproduce. That's nice, but not what I'm asking for. I'm asking for a comprehensive re-think of editing in plain org mode. -- Dave Abrahams BoostPro Computing http://www.boostpro.com ___ Emacs-orgmode mailing list Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
Re: [Orgmode] Feature request [7.3]
Dave Abrahams d...@boostpro.com writes: [...] It'd be great if there were a way to make the ID property read-only (or really really hard to change). This is where column mode comes in quite handy? Link please? Apologies; I meant column view within org mode: info - org - Properties and Columns - Column view [...] But the point is that these are just examples. I think Org wasn't designed with the idea that it would end up having much of a grammar, but it grew one. I'm arguing for a UI re-think for the tool Org has become. Yes, I can see what you are getting at. However, one of the nicest things about org is that it doesn't necessarily impose a structure on everything and so a formal grammar could get in the way. One could argue that the flexibility of the system is it's main source of effectiveness! That and the fact that it is based on pure text. However, this doesn't argue against improvements in the user interface when necessary! -- Eric S Fraga (: http://www.homepages.ucl.ac.uk/~ucecesf/ :) ___ Emacs-orgmode mailing list Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
Re: [Orgmode] Feature request [7.3]
At Thu, 09 Dec 2010 08:57:54 +, Eric S Fraga wrote: Dave Abrahams d...@boostpro.com writes: [...] It'd be great if there were a way to make the ID property read-only (or really really hard to change). This is where column mode comes in quite handy? Link please? Apologies; I meant column view within org mode: info - org - Properties and Columns - Column view Wow, having that on completely messes up the agenda view! [...] But the point is that these are just examples. I think Org wasn't designed with the idea that it would end up having much of a grammar, but it grew one. I'm arguing for a UI re-think for the tool Org has become. Yes, I can see what you are getting at. However, one of the nicest things about org is that it doesn't necessarily impose a structure on everything and so a formal grammar could get in the way. I'm not asking to change the grammar, I'm just asking the editor to be smarter about the grammar that has actually evolved. One could argue that the flexibility of the system is it's main source of effectiveness! Could, but total flexibility doesn't work for everyone. That and the fact that it is based on pure text. However, this doesn't argue against improvements in the user interface when necessary! ...or even when possible? -- Dave Abrahams BoostPro Computing http://www.boostpro.com ___ Emacs-orgmode mailing list Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
Re: [Orgmode] Feature request [7.3]
I don't know about others, but I just put note text below everything else, but before the next headline On Tue, Dec 7, 2010 at 3:59 PM, Dave Abrahams d...@boostpro.com wrote: When using Org for planning, I often find myself corrupting my Org files. All kinds of things can go wrong, but the basic issue is that agenda items have a syntax, and it's easy to violate, especially when I'm going *fast*, which after all is what Org is supposed to enable! For example, a typical captured item looks like: ** TODO Set up yasnippet SCHEDULED: 2010-11-22 Mon :PROPERTIES: :Link: [[some-nasty-link]] :ID: A0B4159C-D796-40DF-9ADD-93DF03577B68 :END: [2010-11-20 Sat 20:17] Now, suppose I'm looking at this in the agenda and I want to add some commentary. Where should I open the new line? If I choose wrongly, my agenda will start to misbehave (e.g. items will appear to be un-reschedulable because they'll acquire a second SCHEDULED date). So I'm requesting some more help from Org in maintaining proper Org syntax. Could Org have a mode that prevents things from being modified incorrectly? For example, it'd be awesome if dates were smart (TAB into one, hit return, get a smart date editor). It'd be great if there were a way to make the ID property read-only (or really really hard to change). I'd love it if there were a way to create a link to an org item that narrows the view to just that item, so I don't inadvertently mess anything else up. Do you get the idea? Thanks for listening, -- Dave Abrahams BoostPro Computing http://www.boostpro.com ___ Emacs-orgmode mailing list Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode -- Jeffrey Horn Graduate Lecturer and PhD Student in Economics George Mason University (704) 271-4797 jh...@gmu.edu jrhorn...@gmail.com http://www.failuretorefrain.com/jeff/ ___ Emacs-orgmode mailing list Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
