[Orgmode] Re: [Babel] No output returned if just one command is failing
Hi Seb, I definitely have some sympathy with your request. On two occasions I've had to manually make this change just to carry on working. The change I made is straightforward if you need it as a temporary hack: --8---cut here---start-8--- diff --git a/lisp/ob-eval.el b/lisp/ob-eval.el index 8832d91..1cce003 100644 --- a/lisp/ob-eval.el +++ b/lisp/ob-eval.el @@ -57,7 +57,7 @@ STDERR with `org-babel-eval-error-notify'. (progn (with-current-buffer err-buff (org-babel-eval-error-notify exit-code (buffer-string))) - nil) + (buffer-string)) (buffer-string) (defun org-babel-eval-read-file (file) --8---cut here---end---8--- But do we actually change babel in this direction? It's important to distinguish between :results output and :results value here. The change that seems superficially attractive is to allow :results output to output the contents of standard output, even if there has been an error. After all, stdout might contain some useful data, and currently babel refuses point blank to give it to you if there's been an error. And as you say, this is the behavior we are used to in the shell. This hypothetical change would leave the default :results value alone (so the above patch would need modification). The thing is that babel currently has a clear, simple, rule which says: if there's an error, the result is the elisp value nil. Eric and I have discussed in the past whether there should be any change in this direction. The idea of a :debug header arg has been floated, that would allow this behavior. Or tacking stdout on to the error output. I tend to think that the behavior you request does need to be made available, somehow, whether by default or not. Dan Sébastien Vauban wxhgmqzgwmuf-genee64ty+gs+fvcfc7...@public.gmane.org writes: Hi Eric, Eric Schulte wrote: I don't forsee adding partial results insertion both because - it would add a good deal of complexity to the code to insert results part-way through a run I can't comment on this, of course. - the current behavior of only inserting results on a fully successful run is reasonable and is probably more obvious (at least to me) than inserting partial results Being fond of Babel, I'm using it always, everywhere. I prefer: 1. typing my shell commands in an Org buffer, 2. evaluate the block, 3. get the results automagically inserted in the buffer, 4. (eventually, version the whole file for later comparisons when updating the code), 5. export the whole to HTML and/or PDF. The current behavior, even if totally respectable and defendable, inhibits such a way of working: if you write (or update) a shell code, and don't see (more or less) the same things as the ones you would see in a shell buffer, then you can't use such an Org buffer -- as long as one command fails. I don't especially want you to change your position, but I'm explaining the negative consequences for me. Thanks! Best regards, Seb ___ Emacs-orgmode mailing list Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
[Orgmode] Re: [Babel] No output returned if just one command is failing
Hi Eric, Sébastien Vauban wrote: Eric Schulte wrote: I don't forsee adding partial results insertion both because - it would add a good deal of complexity to the code to insert results part-way through a run I can't comment on this, of course. - the current behavior of only inserting results on a fully successful run is reasonable and is probably more obvious (at least to me) than inserting partial results Being fond of Babel, I'm using it always, everywhere. I prefer: 1. typing my shell commands in an Org buffer, 2. evaluate the block, 3. get the results automagically inserted in the buffer, 4. (eventually, version the whole file for later comparisons when updating the code), 5. export the whole to HTML and/or PDF. The current behavior, even if totally respectable and defendable, inhibits such a way of working: if you write (or update) a shell code, and don't see (more or less) the same things as the ones you would see in a shell buffer, then you can't use such an Org buffer -- as long as one command fails. I don't especially want you to change your position, but I'm explaining the negative consequences for me. BTW, what's the internal definition (in Org Babel) of unsuccessful run of a (sh) command block? Is it return code != 0? If yes, such a sh block would never produce any results when the machine is not a known name (as first command would fail): #+begin_src sh :var machine :results output ping $machine rc=$? if [ $rc == 0 ]; then echo Machine pinged successfully with its name...; else echo Trying to ping machine by its IP...; ipmachine=$(grep whichever-list.txt | cut -f 2); ping $ipmachine fi #+end_src (the above is just a simply sample of code which includes tests of rc) Though, it does currently work with both known and unknown machines. So I'm clearly missing something here. Best regards, Seb -- Sébastien Vauban ___ Emacs-orgmode mailing list Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
[Orgmode] Re: [Babel] No output returned if just one command is failing
Hi, You both make good points in favor of this behavior, and I had no idea this would be as easy as Dan's patch below, I was thinking that some sort of intermediate results return would be required. I would be open to either of Dan's suggested changes 1. return partial results for :results output 2. return partial results controlled by some new header argument I am worried by the prospect of partial results being used by another code block in chained code block execution. Perhaps some special care should be taken to ensure that this will not happen, or perhaps this should happen only in case two above where the user has explicitly specified that partial results are OK. Thoughts? -- Eric Dan Davison dandavis...@gmail.com writes: Hi Seb, I definitely have some sympathy with your request. On two occasions I've had to manually make this change just to carry on working. The change I made is straightforward if you need it as a temporary hack: diff --git a/lisp/ob-eval.el b/lisp/ob-eval.el index 8832d91..1cce003 100644 --- a/lisp/ob-eval.el +++ b/lisp/ob-eval.el @@ -57,7 +57,7 @@ STDERR with `org-babel-eval-error-notify'. (progn (with-current-buffer err-buff (org-babel-eval-error-notify exit-code (buffer-string))) - nil) + (buffer-string)) (buffer-string) (defun org-babel-eval-read-file (file) But do we actually change babel in this direction? It's important to distinguish between :results output and :results value here. The change that seems superficially attractive is to allow :results output to output the contents of standard output, even if there has been an error. After all, stdout might contain some useful data, and currently babel refuses point blank to give it to you if there's been an error. And as you say, this is the behavior we are used to in the shell. This hypothetical change would leave the default :results value alone (so the above patch would need modification). The thing is that babel currently has a clear, simple, rule which says: if there's an error, the result is the elisp value nil. Eric and I have discussed in the past whether there should be any change in this direction. The idea of a :debug header arg has been floated, that would allow this behavior. Or tacking stdout on to the error output. I tend to think that the behavior you request does need to be made available, somehow, whether by default or not. Dan Sébastien Vauban wxhgmqzgwmuf-genee64ty+gs+fvcfc7...@public.gmane.org writes: Hi Eric, Eric Schulte wrote: I don't forsee adding partial results insertion both because - it would add a good deal of complexity to the code to insert results part-way through a run I can't comment on this, of course. - the current behavior of only inserting results on a fully successful run is reasonable and is probably more obvious (at least to me) than inserting partial results Being fond of Babel, I'm using it always, everywhere. I prefer: 1. typing my shell commands in an Org buffer, 2. evaluate the block, 3. get the results automagically inserted in the buffer, 4. (eventually, version the whole file for later comparisons when updating the code), 5. export the whole to HTML and/or PDF. The current behavior, even if totally respectable and defendable, inhibits such a way of working: if you write (or update) a shell code, and don't see (more or less) the same things as the ones you would see in a shell buffer, then you can't use such an Org buffer -- as long as one command fails. I don't especially want you to change your position, but I'm explaining the negative consequences for me. Thanks! Best regards, Seb ___ Emacs-orgmode mailing list Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
[Orgmode] Re: [Babel] No output returned if just one command is failing
Hi Eric and Dan, Dan Davison wrote: Sébastien Vauban wrote: Eric Schulte wrote: I don't forsee adding partial results insertion both because - it would add a good deal of complexity to the code to insert results part-way through a run I can't comment on this, of course. - the current behavior of only inserting results on a fully successful run is reasonable and is probably more obvious (at least to me) than inserting partial results Being fond of Babel, I'm using it always, everywhere. I prefer: 1. typing my shell commands in an Org buffer, 2. evaluate the block, 3. get the results automagically inserted in the buffer, 4. (eventually, version the whole file for later comparisons when updating the code), 5. export the whole to HTML and/or PDF. The current behavior, even if totally respectable and defendable, inhibits such a way of working: if you write (or update) a shell code, and don't see (more or less) the same things as the ones you would see in a shell buffer, then you can't use such an Org buffer -- as long as one command fails. I don't especially want you to change your position, but I'm explaining the negative consequences for me. I definitely have some sympathy with your request. On two occasions I've had to manually make this change just to carry on working. But do we actually change babel in this direction? [...] The thing is that babel currently has a clear, simple, rule which says: if there's an error, the result is the elisp value nil. Eric and I have discussed in the past whether there should be any change in this direction. The idea of a :debug header arg has been floated, that would allow this behavior. Or tacking stdout on to the error output. I tend to think that the behavior you request does need to be made available, somehow, whether by default or not. If find this conclusion a bit contradictory with the fact that you even needed it yourself. I'm not talking of having this by default, but somehow possible. But, I know, we (you) have to ensure everything stays coherent, and somehow simple... BTW, what's the internal definition (in Org Babel) of unsuccessful run of a (sh) command block? Is it return code != 0? If yes, such a sh block would never produce any results when the machine is not a known name (as first command would fail): #+begin_src sh :var machine :results output ping $machine rc=$? if [ $rc == 0 ]; then echo Machine pinged successfully with its name...; else echo Trying to ping machine by its IP...; ipmachine=$(grep whichever-list.txt | cut -f 2); ping $ipmachine fi #+end_src (the above is just a simply sample of code which includes tests of rc) Though, it does currently work with both known and unknown machines. So I'm clearly missing something here. Best regards, Seb PS- I already sent this (the last paragraphs) hours ago. It did not reach the ML. Is it a Gmane problem? Or something else (Gnus)? -- Sébastien Vauban ___ Emacs-orgmode mailing list Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
[Orgmode] Re: [Babel] No output returned if just one command is failing
Sébastien Vauban wxhgmqzgwmuf-genee64ty+gs+fvcfc7...@public.gmane.org writes: Hi Eric and Dan, Dan Davison wrote: Sébastien Vauban wrote: Eric Schulte wrote: I don't forsee adding partial results insertion both because - it would add a good deal of complexity to the code to insert results part-way through a run I can't comment on this, of course. - the current behavior of only inserting results on a fully successful run is reasonable and is probably more obvious (at least to me) than inserting partial results Being fond of Babel, I'm using it always, everywhere. I prefer: 1. typing my shell commands in an Org buffer, 2. evaluate the block, 3. get the results automagically inserted in the buffer, 4. (eventually, version the whole file for later comparisons when updating the code), 5. export the whole to HTML and/or PDF. The current behavior, even if totally respectable and defendable, inhibits such a way of working: if you write (or update) a shell code, and don't see (more or less) the same things as the ones you would see in a shell buffer, then you can't use such an Org buffer -- as long as one command fails. I don't especially want you to change your position, but I'm explaining the negative consequences for me. I definitely have some sympathy with your request. On two occasions I've had to manually make this change just to carry on working. But do we actually change babel in this direction? [...] The thing is that babel currently has a clear, simple, rule which says: if there's an error, the result is the elisp value nil. Eric and I have discussed in the past whether there should be any change in this direction. The idea of a :debug header arg has been floated, that would allow this behavior. Or tacking stdout on to the error output. I tend to think that the behavior you request does need to be made available, somehow, whether by default or not. If find this conclusion a bit contradictory with the fact that you even needed it yourself. Hey Seb -- you mis-read me there. I was agreeing with you that the behavior should be made available. ___ Emacs-orgmode mailing list Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
[Orgmode] Re: [Babel] No output returned if just one command is failing
Hi Dan and Eric, Dan Davison wrote: Sébastien Vauban writes: Dan Davison wrote: Sébastien Vauban wrote: Eric Schulte wrote: I don't forsee adding partial results insertion both because - it would add a good deal of complexity to the code to insert results part-way through a run I can't comment on this, of course. - the current behavior of only inserting results on a fully successful run is reasonable and is probably more obvious (at least to me) than inserting partial results Being fond of Babel, I'm using it always, everywhere. I prefer: 1. typing my shell commands in an Org buffer, 2. evaluate the block, 3. get the results automagically inserted in the buffer, 4. (eventually, version the whole file for later comparisons when updating the code), 5. export the whole to HTML and/or PDF. The current behavior, even if totally respectable and defendable, inhibits such a way of working: if you write (or update) a shell code, and don't see (more or less) the same things as the ones you would see in a shell buffer, then you can't use such an Org buffer -- as long as one command fails. I don't especially want you to change your position, but I'm explaining the negative consequences for me. I definitely have some sympathy with your request. On two occasions I've had to manually make this change just to carry on working. But do we actually change babel in this direction? [...] The thing is that babel currently has a clear, simple, rule which says: if there's an error, the result is the elisp value nil. Eric and I have discussed in the past whether there should be any change in this direction. The idea of a :debug header arg has been floated, that would allow this behavior. Or tacking stdout on to the error output. I tend to think that the behavior you request does need to be made available, somehow, whether by default or not. If find this conclusion a bit contradictory with the fact that you even needed it yourself. Hey Seb -- you mis-read me there. I was agreeing with you that the behavior should be made available. Yes, it seems I did add a implicit *not* in your last sentence... My impressions are that shell blocks may be a totally different beast from the other source blocks. If so, it could legitimate a slightly different treatment (or default set of options). All of this discussion once again turns around the handling of errors, and the two streams (stdout and stderr). Aaaah, here's well a proof it's different from the rest (languages such as emacs-lisp), at least in their classic usage? My dream would be to be able to write, debug and use code blocks from Org, and only Org. Not be forced to use the shell because some unknown condition make them return an error. Note: Can you explain me what's an error in the case of a sh block? See my previous post(s) of today. Thanks... Maybe once acceptable solution would be to output everything as it is in the terminal, mixing both streams. A possible dream of mine could maybe even become true here: the possibility to clearly distinguish both streams by coloring them differently in the Org results: for example, all lines from stdout in black, all lines from stderr in red... Though, I understand Eric's fears of problems for chained blocks execution. But, anyway, what else would you expect than what occurs in a terminal? Why should it be different? Best regards, Seb -- Sébastien Vauban ___ Emacs-orgmode mailing list Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
[Orgmode] Re: [Babel] No output returned if just one command is failing
Hi Eric, Eric Schulte wrote: You both make good points in favor of this behavior, and I had no idea this would be as easy as Dan's patch below, I was thinking that some sort of intermediate results return would be required. I would be open to either of Dan's suggested changes 1. return partial results for :results output 2. return partial results controlled by some new header argument I am worried by the prospect of partial results being used by another code block in chained code block execution. Perhaps some special care should be taken to ensure that this will not happen, or perhaps this should happen only in case two above where the user has explicitly specified that partial results are OK. As I just expressed it, I would vote for show the results as they are, and as they would be in a terminal. No special header needed, in my current view of the Babel world. In fact, I find the words partial results to be rather negative. They just are the results a terminal would display: they're *all the available results* that the block can generate in its execution context. Best regards, Seb PS- I wanna repeat I may be proven wrong. Maybe I don't think (yet?) at all impacts such a decision may have! -- Sébastien Vauban ___ Emacs-orgmode mailing list Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
[Orgmode] Re: [Babel] No output returned if just one command is failing
Hi Eric, Eric Schulte wrote: I don't forsee adding partial results insertion both because - it would add a good deal of complexity to the code to insert results part-way through a run I can't comment on this, of course. - the current behavior of only inserting results on a fully successful run is reasonable and is probably more obvious (at least to me) than inserting partial results Being fond of Babel, I'm using it always, everywhere. I prefer: 1. typing my shell commands in an Org buffer, 2. evaluate the block, 3. get the results automagically inserted in the buffer, 4. (eventually, version the whole file for later comparisons when updating the code), 5. export the whole to HTML and/or PDF. The current behavior, even if totally respectable and defendable, inhibits such a way of working: if you write (or update) a shell code, and don't see (more or less) the same things as the ones you would see in a shell buffer, then you can't use such an Org buffer -- as long as one command fails. I don't especially want you to change your position, but I'm explaining the negative consequences for me. Thanks! Best regards, Seb -- Sébastien Vauban ___ Emacs-orgmode mailing list Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
