Re: [Orgmode] Re: Basic orgmode tutorial
On Mar 24, 2010, at 9:49 PM, Memnon Anon wrote: Dan Davison davi...@stats.ox.ac.uk writes: Yes, exactly. I want to counter some of the recent pessimism on this topic. Org-mode is very attractive to people in its own right, and as it happens it is implemented in emacs. I know one person who has used org-mode constantly for a couple of years now, purely for the agenda and todo lists, without ever aquiring any ability or interest in using emacs per se. She knows the keys to change TODO states, set timestamps and call up the agenda and that was all that was needed. Although only scraping the surface of what org-mode can do, the fact that someone who otherwise only uses MS Word and firefox is still using org-mode after two years says something *extremely* positive about org-mode. [...] That also brings up the question of org-CUA-compatible -- would that be set in this putative newbie org configuration? [...] So what I am saying is that org-mode is sufficiently attractive that we should expect non-emacs users to be attracted to it, and that we should be optimistic about the ability of such people to start using org-mode. And that yes, we need to work on the configuration for them. I recently installed emacs for a co-student of mine, just to give her the ability to have the outline. She struggled with organizing her notes on her research (first semester ;), so I suggested to her to have a look at the outline tools out there; after she tried some of the solutions available, I finally showed her orgmode, and she really chose org. Reason: Cleaner look, less clutter: Some of the menus in the other programs were overwhelming for her and org offered her exactly what she wanted. She is a student with average computer/software knowledge: Watch movies, use firefox, use openoffice. And thats it. I will ask her for feedback, I haven't spoken to her lately. One thing, however, I noticed at once: I installed for her the official emacs windows build, and the inconsistent mouse usage was a problem. Inconsistent not in itself, just different to what she learned and expects how mouse, copy and paste, selecting text etc. works. It broke her pattern of usage, and it was interesting to see, how confusing that is from an outside perspective. ;). I wish I had chosen Lennart Borgmanns Built, which, I guess - I am on linux only, comes with a more sensible set of preconfigurations. Memnon ... P.S.: Crazy idea: Would it be possible to use the mouse to move Headlines like M-up/M-down does? I do not understand it, but again and again I see computerusers cherishing their beloved rodent. Even heavy computer users find it hard to remember keystrokes. Or they are just unwilling to invest the effort ... I believe that org-mouse.el might have some limited support for this. - Carsten ___ Emacs-orgmode mailing list Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
[Orgmode] Re: Basic orgmode tutorial
Dan Davison davi...@stats.ox.ac.uk writes: Yes, exactly. I want to counter some of the recent pessimism on this topic. Org-mode is very attractive to people in its own right, and as it happens it is implemented in emacs. I know one person who has used org-mode constantly for a couple of years now, purely for the agenda and todo lists, without ever aquiring any ability or interest in using emacs per se. She knows the keys to change TODO states, set timestamps and call up the agenda and that was all that was needed. Although only scraping the surface of what org-mode can do, the fact that someone who otherwise only uses MS Word and firefox is still using org-mode after two years says something *extremely* positive about org-mode. [...] That also brings up the question of org-CUA-compatible -- would that be set in this putative newbie org configuration? [...] So what I am saying is that org-mode is sufficiently attractive that we should expect non-emacs users to be attracted to it, and that we should be optimistic about the ability of such people to start using org-mode. And that yes, we need to work on the configuration for them. I recently installed emacs for a co-student of mine, just to give her the ability to have the outline. She struggled with organizing her notes on her research (first semester ;), so I suggested to her to have a look at the outline tools out there; after she tried some of the solutions available, I finally showed her orgmode, and she really chose org. Reason: Cleaner look, less clutter: Some of the menus in the other programs were overwhelming for her and org offered her exactly what she wanted. She is a student with average computer/software knowledge: Watch movies, use firefox, use openoffice. And thats it. I will ask her for feedback, I haven't spoken to her lately. One thing, however, I noticed at once: I installed for her the official emacs windows build, and the inconsistent mouse usage was a problem. Inconsistent not in itself, just different to what she learned and expects how mouse, copy and paste, selecting text etc. works. It broke her pattern of usage, and it was interesting to see, how confusing that is from an outside perspective. ;). I wish I had chosen Lennart Borgmanns Built, which, I guess - I am on linux only, comes with a more sensible set of preconfigurations. Memnon ... P.S.: Crazy idea: Would it be possible to use the mouse to move Headlines like M-up/M-down does? I do not understand it, but again and again I see computerusers cherishing their beloved rodent. Even heavy computer users find it hard to remember keystrokes. Or they are just unwilling to invest the effort ... ___ Emacs-orgmode mailing list Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
[Orgmode] Re: Basic orgmode tutorial
Hi, Alexander Poslavsky alexander.poslav...@gmail.com writes: attached is an updated version of the file, added agenda and some lines on gtd and exporting. I just read it and you did a great job so far; I will have a closer look later again, sadly I am very busy right now :(. Just one suggestion: I think it would be nice to have a Further Reading Subsection at the end of each Section, containing links to the org manual pages, tutorials on this topic, FAQ Entries, screencasts, whatever. Tutorials are an excellent starting point, but they also great to look up what you recently learned and are tinkering with. Lets say I read the tutorial and tried the Clocking. Then, suddenly, I realize I am not sure how I can really integrate this feature into a workflow. First thing I would do is return to my tutorial and reread the section. If the limited information there [its a tutorial, it is by definition limited], I would really appreciate a Further Reading Section, linking e.g. to Bernt Hansens excellent infos on his clock usage, like: * [[http://doc.norang.ca/org-mode.html#Clocking][Bernt Hansens extensive description Time Clocking: Usage, Customization, Workflow description.]] * [[http://orgmode.org/manual/Clocking-work-time.html#Clocking-work-time][The orgmode Clocking Section]] * [[http://orgmode.org/worg/org-tutorials/index.php#sec-3.3][Clock related Links on Worg]] etc. OTOH, this seems a bit redundant, given the fact that there is already org-tutorials on worg. It might be more convenient to only have a link to the proper sections on worg ... Thanks for reading, Thanks for writing! Memnon Anon ___ Emacs-orgmode mailing list Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
[Orgmode] Re: Basic orgmode tutorial
Memnon Anon gegendosenflei...@googlemail.com writes: Hi, Alexander Poslavsky alexander.poslav...@gmail.com writes: attached is an updated version of the file, added agenda and some lines on gtd and exporting. I just read it and you did a great job so far; I will have a closer look later again, sadly I am very busy right now :(. Just one suggestion: I think it would be nice to have a Further Reading Subsection at the end of each Section, containing links to the org manual pages, tutorials on this topic, FAQ Entries, screencasts, whatever. Just an idle thought :- Wouldn't it be great to have tutorial for org-mode in org-mode. e.g lesson one is how to complete a TODO - ie complete the tutorial element which describes how to complete a task etc. Would be pretty neat. ___ Emacs-orgmode mailing list Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
Re: [Orgmode] Re: Basic orgmode tutorial
On Mar 23, 2010, at 6:37 PM, Memnon Anon wrote: Hi, Alexander Poslavsky alexander.poslav...@gmail.com writes: attached is an updated version of the file, added agenda and some lines on gtd and exporting. I just read it and you did a great job so far; I will have a closer look later again, sadly I am very busy right now :(. Just one suggestion: I think it would be nice to have a Further Reading Subsection at the end of each Section, containing links to the org manual pages, tutorials on this topic, FAQ Entries, screencasts, whatever. Tutorials are an excellent starting point, but they also great to look up what you recently learned and are tinkering with. Lets say I read the tutorial and tried the Clocking. Then, suddenly, I realize I am not sure how I can really integrate this feature into a workflow. First thing I would do is return to my tutorial and reread the section. If the limited information there [its a tutorial, it is by definition limited], I would really appreciate a Further Reading Section, linking e.g. to Bernt Hansens excellent infos on his clock usage, like: * [[http://doc.norang.ca/org-mode.html#Clocking][Bernt Hansens extensive description Time Clocking: Usage, Customization, Workflow description.]] * [[http://orgmode.org/manual/Clocking-work-time.html#Clocking-work-time][The orgmode Clocking Section]] * [[http://orgmode.org/worg/org-tutorials/index.php#sec-3.3][Clock related Links on Worg]] etc. OTOH, this seems a bit redundant, given the fact that there is already org-tutorials on worg. It might be more convenient to only have a link to the proper sections on worg … snip thanks, just added a bunch of links for further reading. Even if redundant, it still might ease the pain of learning. ,alex ___ Emacs-orgmode mailing list Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
