Re: [orgweb/zh-CN] [DRAFT PATCH] Tentative zh-CN translation

[Ihor Radchenko]

Ruijie Yu  writes:

>> -org-mode-parser
>> +/org-mode-parser/
>>
>> This probably belongs to the English version as well.
>
> Should the English version change belong to a new commit, unrelated to
> the translation patchset?  Or would I just modify it in the same commit
> where I translate zh-CN/tools.org?

A separate commit would be cleaner. However, if it requires you to do too
much unnecessary rebasing, we can postpone it until the main translation
is merged.

-- 
Ihor Radchenko // yantar92,
Org mode contributor,
Learn more about Org mode at .
Support Org development at ,
or support my work at 

Re: [orgweb/zh-CN] [DRAFT PATCH] Tentative zh-CN translation

[General discussions about Org-mode.]

Ihor Radchenko  writes:

> Ruijie Yu  writes:
>
>>> Series of commits is ok.
>>
>> I have decided to push the changes to an unlisted cloned project on
>> sourcehut (https://sr.ht/~ruijieyu/orgweb), since otherwise I would have
>> to generate the patchset in every iteration, and attach the files to
>> emails _one by one_ on mu4e.  Let me know if you need me to attach the
>> patchset to keep a trace on the ML -- it takes me a while but I can do
>> it.
>
> mu4e does not support multiple selection when attaching files? AFAIK,
> Emacs supports drag-and-drop for attachments.

Hanno provided additional hints on that, and I will try to use dired to
place attachments in my next iteration. 

   * I think the "#+description:" portion of each *.org file can be just
 moved into setup.org?  That way we don't duplicate it twenty times.
>>>
>>> Agree.
>>
>> Noted.  I did not touch the descriptions outside of zh-CN; please let me
>> know if I should.
>
> It will be a good idea.

I'll update all "#+description" fields outside zh-CN in a single,
separate commit, unless you have other ideas.

>>> It will be useful to add alternative websites in Mandarin/Cantonese as a
>>> secondary link.
>>
>> Sounds good, will do on my next iteration.  One more question: should I
>> add the secondary link next to the primary link, or should I add them as
>> footnotes?
>
> IMHO, it will make sense to have an immediately visible alternative
> link. So, secondary link will do. Or you may even make the Chinese link
> primary, as the one that is more likely to be useful.

Noted.

>> On second look, this may just be because I ran `C-c C-e h h'.  I tried
>> to run this command on the English site, and the generated site also
>> behaves like what I described above.
>>
>> I am curious about the differences between `C-c C-e h h' and publish.sh.
>> I didn't run publish.sh because I don't think the publish script should
>> be run locally as-is, since it contains hardcoded paths.
>
> Publishing is quite a bit different. For example, it tries hard to make
> the HTML anchors stable. There are other differences as well.

Got it.  As evident from some of my other messages, I have therefore
switched over to using publish.sh because I want to be able to see how
exactly each page looks.

-- 
Best,


RY

Re: [orgweb/zh-CN] [DRAFT PATCH] Tentative zh-CN translation

[General discussions about Org-mode.]

Ihor Radchenko  writes:

> Ruijie Yu via "General discussions about Org-mode."
>  writes:
>
>> I underwent a (painfully long) process of git magickery so that each
>> "translation" commit only _translates_ a file, instead of adds a brand
>> new file with brand new contents.  This means reviewers can have an
>> easier time to just review the diff without needing to look back and
>> forth between two files.
>
> Thanks!
>
>> +  
>> +概述显示 
>
> I'd look into, for example, how Chinese version of WPS office names outlines.

Thanks, installing it now and will take a look.

> Also, I noticed that in tools.org you changed
>
> -org-mode-parser
> +/org-mode-parser/
>
> This probably belongs to the English version as well.

Should the English version change belong to a new commit, unrelated to
the translation patchset?  Or would I just modify it in the same commit
where I translate zh-CN/tools.org?

-- 
Best,


RY

Re: [orgweb/zh-CN] [DRAFT PATCH] Tentative zh-CN translation

[General discussions about Org-mode.]

Hanno Perrey  writes:

>>> I have decided to push the changes to an unlisted cloned project on
>>> sourcehut (https://sr.ht/~ruijieyu/orgweb), since otherwise I would have
>>> to generate the patchset in every iteration, and attach the files to
>>> emails _one by one_ on mu4e.  Let me know if you need me to attach the
>>> patchset to keep a trace on the ML -- it takes me a while but I can do
>>> it.
>>
>>mu4e does not support multiple selection when attaching files? AFAIK,
>>Emacs supports drag-and-drop for attachments.
>
> Just FYI: It is possible to attach several files in one go in mu4e, by using 
> the integration into dired and marking any file to be attached: 
> https://www.djcbsoftware.nl/code/mu/mu4e/Dired.html

Thanks for mentioning it and for the link, I'll remember to use that
next time.

> Best wishes,
> Hanno
>
> PS: hope the formatting of this mail is ok, I am currently struggling with 
> the k9mail configuration on my mobile

All your paragraphs show up as long lines on my end, so evidently your
mobile email client soft-wraps your paragraphs for you (instead of
hard-wrapping, i.e., adding real newline chars).  Typical behavior on
mobile email clients, so I'm not surprised.

-- 
Best,


RY

Re: [orgweb/zh-CN] [DRAFT PATCH] Tentative zh-CN translation

[Hanno Perrey]

>> I have decided to push the changes to an unlisted cloned project on
>> sourcehut (https://sr.ht/~ruijieyu/orgweb), since otherwise I would have
>> to generate the patchset in every iteration, and attach the files to
>> emails _one by one_ on mu4e.  Let me know if you need me to attach the
>> patchset to keep a trace on the ML -- it takes me a while but I can do
>> it.
>
>mu4e does not support multiple selection when attaching files? AFAIK,
>Emacs supports drag-and-drop for attachments.

Just FYI: It is possible to attach several files in one go in mu4e, by using 
the integration into dired and marking any file to be attached: 
https://www.djcbsoftware.nl/code/mu/mu4e/Dired.html

Best wishes,
Hanno

PS: hope the formatting of this mail is ok, I am currently struggling with the 
k9mail configuration on my mobile

Re: [orgweb/zh-CN] [DRAFT PATCH] Tentative zh-CN translation

[Ihor Radchenko]

Ruijie Yu  writes:

>> Series of commits is ok.
>
> I have decided to push the changes to an unlisted cloned project on
> sourcehut (https://sr.ht/~ruijieyu/orgweb), since otherwise I would have
> to generate the patchset in every iteration, and attach the files to
> emails _one by one_ on mu4e.  Let me know if you need me to attach the
> patchset to keep a trace on the ML -- it takes me a while but I can do
> it.

mu4e does not support multiple selection when attaching files? AFAIK,
Emacs supports drag-and-drop for attachments.

>>>   * Please let me know if there are any guidelines for commit messages
>>> which I should follow.
>>
>> See https://orgmode.org/worg/org-contribute.html#commit-messages
>
> Tried to abide, please confirm.

Looks OK.

>>>   * I think the "#+description:" portion of each *.org file can be just
>>> moved into setup.org?  That way we don't duplicate it twenty times.
>>
>> Agree.
>
> Noted.  I did not touch the descriptions outside of zh-CN; please let me
> know if I should.

It will be a good idea.

>> It will be useful to add alternative websites in Mandarin/Cantonese as a
>> secondary link.
>
> Sounds good, will do on my next iteration.  One more question: should I
> add the secondary link next to the primary link, or should I add them as
> footnotes?

IMHO, it will make sense to have an immediately visible alternative
link. So, secondary link will do. Or you may even make the Chinese link
primary, as the one that is more likely to be useful.

> [And small nit, Hong Kong is not a province but a S.A.R. :) ]

Of course. I did not mean otherwise.

> On second look, this may just be because I ran `C-c C-e h h'.  I tried
> to run this command on the English site, and the generated site also
> behaves like what I described above.
>
> I am curious about the differences between `C-c C-e h h' and publish.sh.
> I didn't run publish.sh because I don't think the publish script should
> be run locally as-is, since it contains hardcoded paths.

Publishing is quite a bit different. For example, it tries hard to make
the HTML anchors stable. There are other differences as well.

-- 
Ihor Radchenko // yantar92,
Org mode contributor,
Learn more about Org mode at .
Support Org development at ,
or support my work at 

Re: [orgweb/zh-CN] [DRAFT PATCH] Tentative zh-CN translation

[Ihor Radchenko]

Ruijie Yu via "General discussions about Org-mode."
 writes:

> I underwent a (painfully long) process of git magickery so that each
> "translation" commit only _translates_ a file, instead of adds a brand
> new file with brand new contents.  This means reviewers can have an
> easier time to just review the diff without needing to look back and
> forth between two files.

Thanks!

> +  
> + 概述显示 

I'd look into, for example, how Chinese version of WPS office names outlines.

Also, I noticed that in tools.org you changed

-org-mode-parser
+/org-mode-parser/

This probably belongs to the English version as well.

-- 
Ihor Radchenko // yantar92,
Org mode contributor,
Learn more about Org mode at .
Support Org development at ,
or support my work at 

Re: [orgweb/zh-CN] [DRAFT PATCH] Tentative zh-CN translation

[General discussions about Org-mode.]

Hello,

This is a new iteration:
https://git.sr.ht/~ruijieyu/orgweb/log/translate/zh-CN--v5 for the zh-CN
translation.  Well, it says v5 because it went through some internal
iterations, and I pushed too soon before soon discovering that something
else needed to be changed.  I want to keep all these iterations alive
until the entire thing goes into orgmode.org.

Please also take the final commit (4965b363) with a grain of salt -- it
is only a modification on publish.sh which provides me a minor aesthetic
improvement (not having to see all these .org buffers pop up at me), and
don't necessarily need to be considered together with the rest of the
translation patchset.  If necessary, I'll post this commit as a separate
patch mail in the ML for consideration.

I underwent a (painfully long) process of git magickery so that each
"translation" commit only _translates_ a file, instead of adds a brand
new file with brand new contents.  This means reviewers can have an
easier time to just review the diff without needing to look back and
forth between two files.

Here attached is a diff between translate/zh-CN--v2 and
translate/zh-CN--v5~1.  Note that I deliberately omitted the commit
4965b363 in this diff.

I'll also tell the folks at emacs-china.org about this iteration shortly
after so that they can review these translations.

diff --git a/publish.sh b/publish.sh
index f756ff6..8486760 100755
--- a/publish.sh
+++ b/publish.sh
@@ -28,7 +28,7 @@
   org-html-postamble t
   org-html-postamble-format
   `(("en" ,(get-postamble "."))
-("zh-CN" ,(get-postamble "zh_CN"
+("zh-CN" ,(get-postamble "zh-CN"
 
 (dolist (org-file (directory-files-recursively default-directory "\\.org$"))
   (let ((html-file (concat (file-name-directory org-file)
diff --git a/zh-CN/features.org b/zh-CN/features.org
index 79ab8f7..0367040 100644
--- a/zh-CN/features.org
+++ b/zh-CN/features.org
@@ -62,7 +62,7 @@ Org 里最基础的结构是由可嵌套、可折叠的章节构成的树。你
 
 Org 的树结构给用户带来了快速且优雅的导引与强大的信息遮避功能，让你在保持获取需要信息的能力的同时专心于手头的任务。
 
-控制章节可见与否只是 Org 的一个小小的功能，而 Org 仍有其它多种工具与命令来为纯文本结构化的编辑带来便利。 Org 的语法让用户把枯燥的任务变成了单个的键盘命令，让用户更着重于内容而不是形式。
+控制章节可见与否只是 Org 的一个小小的功能，而 Org 仍有其它多种工具与命令来为结构化地编辑纯文本带来便利。 Org 的语法让用户把枯燥的任务变成了单个的键盘命令，让用户更着重于内容而不是形式。
 
 *** 更多
 
@@ -123,7 +123,7 @@ Org 目前支持超过[[file:../worg/org-contrib/babel/languages/index.html][80
 
 Worg（英语）：[[file:../worg/org-contrib/babel/languages/index.html][支持语言]]列表
 
-* 导出与发表
+* 导出与发布
   :PROPERTIES:
   :CUSTOM_ID: publishing
   :HTML_CONTAINER_CLASS: side-fig
@@ -135,7 +135,7 @@ Worg（英语）：[[file:../worg/org-contrib/babel/languages/index.html][支持
 
 ** 描述
 
-Org 是一个撰写与发表的工具 - 它既可以是静态网页生成器，也可以是一系列为发表内容提供便利的工具。
+Org 是一个撰写与发布的工具 - 它既可以是静态网页生成器，也可以是一系列为发布内容提供便利的工具。
 
 你使用 Org 的简洁易懂的标记语法来撰写稿件，然后导出到你所选择的任何一种格式。 Org 支持很多格式，其中包含：
 
@@ -146,15 +146,15 @@ Org 是一个撰写与发表的工具 - 它既可以是静态网页生成器
 
 开发者可以轻松地为任何格式创造新的导出后端（详见[[file:../worg/dev/org-export-reference.html][ox的文档]]),并且 Org 也被[[https://pandoc.org][Pandoc]]支持。
 
-除开导出单一的文件以外，你还可以​/发表项目/ - 将一个或更多的 =.org= 文件以及其需要的各种资源导出到一个或更多的发表后端。
+除开导出单一的文件以外，你还可以​/发布项目/ - 将一个或更多的 =.org= 文件以及其需要的各种资源导出到一个或更多的发布后端。
 
 *** 更多
 
 冷知识：Org 的网页是由 Org 编写而成！
 
-详见手册（英语）：[[file:../manual/Markup-for-Rich-Contents.html][标记]]，[[file:../manual/Exporting.html][导出]]，[[file:../manual/Publishing.html][发表]]
+详见手册（英语）：[[file:../manual/Markup-for-Rich-Contents.html][标记]]，[[file:../manual/Exporting.html][导出]]，[[file:../manual/Publishing.html][发布]]
 
-Worg 教程（英语）：发表到 [[file:../worg/org-tutorials/org-publish-html-tutorial.html][HTML]] ；发表到 [[file:../worg/org-tutorials/org-latex-export.html][\(\LaTeX\)]]
+Worg 教程（英语）：发布到 [[file:../worg/org-tutorials/org-publish-html-tutorial.html][HTML]] ；发布到 [[file:../worg/org-tutorials/org-latex-export.html][\(\LaTeX\)]]
 
 * 把握任务的进程
   :PROPERTIES:
@@ -169,11 +169,11 @@ Worg 教程（英语）：发表到 [[file:../worg/org-tutorials/org-publish-htm
 
 Org 是一个功能齐全的任务计划工具、时间管理工具以及待办事项工具。
 
-任何一个章节都可以通过增加例如 =TODO= 或者 =HOLD= 等关键词来被设置成​/待办/​。你可以由此跟踪纪录此任务的进度。你也可以使用快捷键 =S-= 和 =S-= 来把任务切换到不同状态。
+任何一个章节都可以通过增加例如 =TODO= 或者 =HOLD= 等关键词来被设置成​/待办事项/​。你可以由此跟踪纪录此任务的进度。你也可以使用快捷键 =S-= 和 =S-= 来把任务切换到不同状态。
 
 需要增加其他的任务状态？没问题。你可以根据你的工作流程自由地设置任务状态。
 
-在 Org /日程/​（Agenda）里，你可以轻松地查看多个文件里的任务 - 你仅需要添加一个任务状态关键词，例如 =TODO=​。Org 为以下功能有内置支持：任务优先级、截止日期、计划中任务、标签、打卡等等。​/日程/​能够使用上述所有功能来整理任务以及设置优先级。因此，在仅仅使用纯文本标记的同时，你可以把一个简单的待办事项列表无缝升级为一个完整的项目管理软件。
+在 Org /日程/​（Agenda）里，你可以轻松地查看多个文件里的任务 - 你仅需要添加一个任务状态关键词，例如 =TODO=​。Org 为以下功能有内置支持：任务优先级、截止日期、计划中任务、标签、打卡等等。​/日程/​能够使用上述所有功能来整理任务以及设置优先级。因此，在仅需使用纯文本标记的同时，你可以把一个简单的待办事项列表无缝升级为一个完整的项目管理软件。
 
 *** 更多
 
diff --git a/zh-CN/index.org b/zh-CN/index.org
index 1397a37..b5da846 100644
--- a/zh-CN/index.org
+++ b/zh-CN/index.org
@@ -1,7 +1,7 @@
 #+title: Emacs 的 Org 主模式
 #+setupfile: setup.org
-#+html_head: 
-#+html_head: 
+#+html_head: 
+#+html_head: 
 #+include: "resources/preamble.html" export html
 
 #+html_head: 
@@ -13,13 +13,13 @@
alt="Org unicorn logo" itemprop="image"/>
   
 
-  Org Mode
+  Org 主模式
   纯文本的生活
 
 
 

Re: [orgweb/zh-CN] [DRAFT PATCH] Tentative zh-CN translation

[General discussions about Org-mode.]

Hello Ihor,

Thanks for your response.  I made some changes accordingly, which can be
found here: https://git.sr.ht/~ruijieyu/orgweb/tree/translate/zh-CN--v2 .

More responses inline below.


Ihor Radchenko  writes:

> Ruijie Yu via "General discussions about Org-mode."
>  writes:
>
>> This is a tentative patchset for orgweb zh_CN translation.
>
> Thanks!
>
>>   * How do I change the heading for the footnote section?  In
>> particular, can I set it in a file- or dir-local variable, or in the
>> setup.org file?  This is needed for _fully_ translating
>> /quickstart.org.
>
> You just need to use #+language: zh-CN (note dash).

Thank you, that fixes it.  I am therefore updating all traces of "zh_CN"
into "zh-CN".

>>   * Is translating /elpa.org worth it?  I presume not, because part of
>> it describes the use of the now-deprecated Org Elpa repository.
>
> This page is, AFAIK, not referenced anywhere. And obsolete. No need to
> bother.

Noted.  I therefore made zh-CN/elpa.org a symlink.

>>   * I noticed that /resources/postamble.html is unused in all languages.
>> Should it be deleted?
>
> It is used in every single html. See /publish.sh.

Got it.  I have hence added my translation of postamble.html, and
slightly modified publish.sh so that it makes use of the translation.

>>   * I have added additional notes regarding zero-width spaces, because
>> CJK languages rarely use spaces whereas markups need them.  I
>> presume this is an acceptable addition.
>> + This addition would also be helpful for when _eventually_ the
>>   Japanese version is updated or some other CJK language is added.
>
> You can also link to https://orgmode.org/manual/Escape-Character.html

Got it.

>>   * I left the changes in a series of commits, each handling one file --
>> please let me know if I should squash them into fewer commits.
>> Alternatively, let me know if I should push this to some online Git
>> repo.
>
> Series of commits is ok.

I have decided to push the changes to an unlisted cloned project on
sourcehut (https://sr.ht/~ruijieyu/orgweb), since otherwise I would have
to generate the patchset in every iteration, and attach the files to
emails _one by one_ on mu4e.  Let me know if you need me to attach the
patchset to keep a trace on the ML -- it takes me a while but I can do
it.

>>   * Please let me know if there are any guidelines for commit messages
>> which I should follow.
>
> See https://orgmode.org/worg/org-contribute.html#commit-messages

Tried to abide, please confirm.

>>   * I think the "#+description:" portion of each *.org file can be just
>> moved into setup.org?  That way we don't duplicate it twenty times.
>
> Agree.

Noted.  I did not touch the descriptions outside of zh-CN; please let me
know if I should.

>>   * There are hyperlinks which link to sites unreachable from mainland
>> China.  I have marked them as "external sites" (外网) for now, but I
>> wonder if I should look for equivalent sites accessible from within
>> mainland China.
>
> It will be useful to add alternative websites in Mandarin/Cantonese as a
> secondary link.

Sounds good, will do on my next iteration.  One more question: should I
add the secondary link next to the primary link, or should I add them as
footnotes?

> You should not assume that all the Chinese users experience the same set
> of blocked websites. Different provinces have slightly varying rules,
> the rules change with time, and Hong Kong in particular is not likely to
> block much. Not to mention VPN.

Yes, I understand, as I have had first-hand experience on the
aforementioned differences.  What I have observed is that Wikipedia and
Google are the two main sites that came to my mind which are universally
blocked from mainland China, both of which are referenced in some degree
in the English version.  And at least in the case of Wikipedia, I offer
to look for alternative sites because the task should be relatively easy
for me.

[And small nit, Hong Kong is not a province but a S.A.R. :) ]

>>   * When translating /index.org, I noticed that, within the first
>> section, the spacing between the icons and their texts (e.g., the
>> rocket icon and its accompanying text "quickstart") in
>> /zh_CN/index.org are smaller than that of /index.org.  I don't know
>> if it is because I unintentionally changed something that caused
>> this.
>
> Timothy, may you take a look?

On second look, this may just be because I ran `C-c C-e h h'.  I tried
to run this command on the English site, and the generated site also
behaves like what I described above.

I am curious about the differences between `C-c C-e h h' and publish.sh.
I didn't run publish.sh because I don't think the publish script should
be run locally as-is, since it contains hardcoded paths.

>>   * Should I mark English links as "English", and if so, how
>> aggressively should I mark them?  Or do you think it is too
>> distracting