Re: Executable deleted after first run

[Richard Stallman]

I think 'document it' is good enough and the workaround is easy to do
anyway.

Would someone please respond with an item for PROBLEMS?


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Re: Executable deleted after first run

[Leo]

* Richard Stallman (2007-01-04 17:33 -0500) said:
  
> Is it possible for `make install' to detect this defective file
> system?  It would be ok for `make install' to create a symlink
> conditionally in that case.
>
> Otherwise we can only document the problem, perhaps in etc/PROBLEMS.

I think 'document it' is good enough and the workaround is easy to do
anyway.

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Re: Executable deleted after first run

[Richard Stallman]

All regular files are hard links.

That is true in ordinary Unix-style file systems, but he has a
peculiar file system, and it sounds like it treats the "second name"
differently from the "first name".


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Re: Executable deleted after first run

[Richard Stallman]

It appears your machine is using a defective file system that doesn't
correctly implement multiple file names.  It would be good for Emacs
to work better with that defective file system, if there is an easy
way to do it.

Is there any reason to choose hard link over symbolic link?

Yes.  It is so that you don't have to keep the name emacs-M.N.O.P if
you don't want to keep it.

That feature is important, so the simple change of unconditionally
making `emacs' a symlink to `emacs-M.N.O.P' should not be made.

Is it possible for `make install' to detect this defective file
system?  It would be ok for `make install' to create a symlink
conditionally in that case.

Otherwise we can only document the problem, perhaps in etc/PROBLEMS.


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Re: Executable deleted after first run

[Richard Stallman]

> If so, you could then try putting a breakpoint at `unlink' and another
> breakpoint at `rename'.  These breakpoints will be hit occasionally
> for legitimate reasons, so I hope you can suffer through that for a
> few days.  That way, you will see if the deletion of the executable
> hits one of these breakpoints.

Could anyone provide more help on debugging this? I run Emacs as
Richard suggested. I got interrupted from time to time and almost each
time I check if 'emacs' is still there by using 'ls -l'. However,
'emacs' is being deleted and I can't tell when it is deleted.

I am not sure what your message means.

Are you saying that when the file is deleted, you have established
positively that there is NO call to either `unlink' or `rename'?


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Re: Executable deleted after first run

[Jan Djärv]

Leo skrev:

* Chris Moore (2007-01-04 10:45 +0100) said:
  ^^^

On 1/4/07, Leo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


It turns out all hard links will be deleted after user log off. The
file system is: `type ncpfs (rw,nosuid,nodev)' as I am running
Emacs on my Univ's server.
Is there any reason to choose hard link over symbolic link?

All regular files are hard links.  A hard link is just a name for a
file on disk.  "emacs" is one name for the executable and
"emacs-22.0.92" is another name for the same executable.  There's no
concept of one being a link to the other, they are both names for
the same file on disk.  If "all hard links" are deleted, then both
"emacs" and "emacs-22.0.92" will be deleted, along with all your
other files.


Then I don't know what's going on. 'emacs' is deleted but
'emacs-22.0.92' is not.

Any other files I created using 'ln' will also be deleted.



"Hard link" usually means a file with a link count greater than 1.

Jan D.



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Re: Executable deleted after first run

[Leo]

* Chris Moore (2007-01-04 10:45 +0100) said:
  ^^^
> On 1/4/07, Leo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> It turns out all hard links will be deleted after user log off. The
>> file system is: `type ncpfs (rw,nosuid,nodev)' as I am running
>> Emacs on my Univ's server.
>
>> Is there any reason to choose hard link over symbolic link?
>
> All regular files are hard links.  A hard link is just a name for a
> file on disk.  "emacs" is one name for the executable and
> "emacs-22.0.92" is another name for the same executable.  There's no
> concept of one being a link to the other, they are both names for
> the same file on disk.  If "all hard links" are deleted, then both
> "emacs" and "emacs-22.0.92" will be deleted, along with all your
> other files.

Then I don't know what's going on. 'emacs' is deleted but
'emacs-22.0.92' is not.

Any other files I created using 'ln' will also be deleted.

-- 
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Re: Executable deleted after first run

[Chris Moore]

On 1/4/07, Leo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


It turns out all hard links will be deleted after user log off. The
file system is: `type ncpfs (rw,nosuid,nodev)' as I am running Emacs
on my Univ's server.



Is there any reason to choose hard link over symbolic link?


All regular files are hard links.  A hard link is just a name for a
file on disk.  "emacs" is one name for the executable and
"emacs-22.0.92" is another name for the same executable.  There's no
concept of one being a link to the other, they are both names for the
same file on disk.  If "all hard links" are deleted, then both "emacs"
and "emacs-22.0.92" will be deleted, along with all your other files.


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Re: Executable deleted after first run

[Leo]

* Eli Zaretskii (2007-01-04 06:21 +0200) said:
  ^
>> From: Leo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2007 21:59:31 +
>> 
>> Could anyone provide more help on debugging this? I run Emacs as
>> Richard suggested. I got interrupted from time to time and almost each
>> time I check if 'emacs' is still there by using 'ls -l'. However,
>> 'emacs' is being deleted and I can't tell when it is deleted.
>
> Does SYSLOG (or its equivalent on your kind of system) show anything
> around the time `emacs' disappears that could shed a light on this?
I think I have found the culprit. Please see:

Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.pretest.bugs:16377
Archived-At: 

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Re: Executable deleted after first run

[Leo]

* Chris Moore (2007-01-04 02:35 +0100) said:
  ^^^
> Also, did you try compiling and installing Emacs and *not* running
> it at all?  Does it still disappear after a while?

Very good question.

It turns out all hard links will be deleted after user log off. The
file system is: `type ncpfs (rw,nosuid,nodev)' as I am running Emacs
on my Univ's server.

,[ ncpfs ]
|  ncpfs allows you to mount volumes of NetWare servers under Linux
|  and to print to NetWare print queues and spool NetWare print queues
|  to the Linux printing system.
`

Is there any reason to choose hard link over symbolic link?

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Re: Executable deleted after first run

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Leo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2007 21:59:31 +
> 
> Could anyone provide more help on debugging this? I run Emacs as
> Richard suggested. I got interrupted from time to time and almost each
> time I check if 'emacs' is still there by using 'ls -l'. However,
> 'emacs' is being deleted and I can't tell when it is deleted.

Does SYSLOG (or its equivalent on your kind of system) show anything
around the time `emacs' disappears that could shed a light on this?


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Re: Executable deleted after first run

[Leo]

* Chris Moore (2007-01-04 02:35 +0100) said:
  ^^^
> Leo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
>>> Can you paste the ./configure line you used exactly?
>>
>> ./configure --prefix=/home/sl392/packages/emacs22/ --with-gtk
>> --enable-locallisppath=/home/sl392/packages/emacs-local/site-lisp-22/
>> && make install && make install INSTALL_STRIP="-s"
>
> Thanks.  I'll try using something similar tomorrow.
>
> Someone asked whether the bug happens if you run
>
>   ./emacs -Q

I always did my test using 'emacs -Q' i.e. gdb ./emacs and then 'r
-Q'.

[...]
> Also, did you try compiling and installing Emacs and *not* running it
> at all?  Does it still disappear after a while?

I just did a fresh install and we'll see after 24 hours ;)

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Re: Executable deleted after first run

[Chris Moore]

Leo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

>> Can you paste the ./configure line you used exactly?
>
> ./configure --prefix=/home/sl392/packages/emacs22/ --with-gtk
> --enable-locallisppath=/home/sl392/packages/emacs-local/site-lisp-22/
> && make install && make install INSTALL_STRIP="-s"

Thanks.  I'll try using something similar tomorrow.

Someone asked whether the bug happens if you run

  ./emacs -Q

to run Emacs without your .emacs file or site-lisp configuration, but
I didn't see if you answered that.  I'm guessing that something in
your emacs-local/site-lisp-22/ directory might be to blame.

Also, did you try compiling and installing Emacs and *not* running it
at all?  Does it still disappear after a while?


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Re: Executable deleted after first run

[Leo]

* Chris Moore (2007-01-04 00:15 +0100) said:
  ^^^
> Leo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> To reproduce,
>>
>> 1. compile and install Emacs in dir "~/packages/emacs22"
>
> Compile it in ~/packages/emacs22" and install it to ~/packages/emacs22"
> as well?

Compile in /tmp/emacs and install  to ~/packages/emacs22. Sorry, I was
not clear.

>
> Can you paste the ./configure line you used exactly?

./configure --prefix=/home/sl392/packages/emacs22/ --with-gtk
--enable-locallisppath=/home/sl392/packages/emacs-local/site-lisp-22/
&& make install && make install INSTALL_STRIP="-s"

-- 
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Re: Executable deleted after first run

[Chris Moore]

Leo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> Hi all,
>
> To reproduce,
>
> 1. compile and install Emacs in dir "~/packages/emacs22"

Compile it in ~/packages/emacs22" and install it to ~/packages/emacs22"
as well?

Can you paste the ./configure line you used exactly?


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Re: Executable deleted after first run

[Leo]

* Richard Stallman (2007-01-02 22:35 -0500) said:
  
> I spoke too soon. It happened again but I have no idea how to
> reproduce. Just make sure the user running Emacs has the 'write'
> access to file 'emacs' in bin dir and after sometime it will happen.
>
> If you make a practice of always running Emacs under gdb, does it
> still fail?
>
> If so, you could then try putting a breakpoint at `unlink' and another
> breakpoint at `rename'.  These breakpoints will be hit occasionally
> for legitimate reasons, so I hope you can suffer through that for a
> few days.  That way, you will see if the deletion of the executable
> hits one of these breakpoints.

Could anyone provide more help on debugging this? I run Emacs as
Richard suggested. I got interrupted from time to time and almost each
time I check if 'emacs' is still there by using 'ls -l'. However,
'emacs' is being deleted and I can't tell when it is deleted.

-- 
Leo  (GPG Key: 9283AA3F)



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Re: Executable deleted after first run

[Richard Stallman]

I spoke too soon. It happened again but I have no idea how to
reproduce. Just make sure the user running Emacs has the 'write'
access to file 'emacs' in bin dir and after sometime it will happen.

If you make a practice of always running Emacs under gdb, does it
still fail?

If so, you could then try putting a breakpoint at `unlink' and another
breakpoint at `rename'.  These breakpoints will be hit occasionally
for legitimate reasons, so I hope you can suffer through that for a
few days.  That way, you will see if the deletion of the executable
hits one of these breakpoints.


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Re: Executable deleted after first run

[Leo]

* Leo (2007-01-01 02:06 +) said:
  ^^^
>> I can't reproduce this on GNU/Linux.  Does this happen if you run
>> with ./emacs -Q as well ?
>
> Weird, I can't reproduce now. But I believe I have seen this problem
> for a long time. It didn't cause any trouble before because I
> usually install emacs as root. I will keep an eye on it.

I spoke too soon. It happened again but I have no idea how to
reproduce. Just make sure the user running Emacs has the 'write'
access to file 'emacs' in bin dir and after sometime it will happen.

>
>>
>>  Jan D.

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Re: Executable deleted after first run

[Leo]

* Jan Djärv (2006-12-31 18:24 +0100) said:
  ^
> Leo skrev:
>> Hi all,
>> 
>> To reproduce,
>
>> 
>> 1. compile and install Emacs in dir "~/packages/emacs22"
>> 
>> 2. go to ~/packages/emacs22/bin and run Emacs with ./emacs
>> 
>> 3. Quit Emacs and executable emacs is gone.
>> 
>> I am left with these files in bin dir:
>> /home/leo/packages/emacs22/bin/ (allfiles)
>>  |-(f)b2m
>>  |-(f)ctags
>>  |-(f)ebrowse
>>  |-(f)emacs-22.0.92
>>  |-(f)emacsclient
>>  |-(f)etags
>>  |-(f)grep-changelog
>>  +-(f)rcs-checkin
>> 
>> Tested on: GNU Emacs 22.0.92.1 (i686-pc-linux-gnu, GTK+ Version 2.6.4)
>> of 2006-12-30 on soup
>> 
>
> I can't reproduce this on GNU/Linux.  Does this happen if you run with ./emacs
> -Q as well ?

Weird, I can't reproduce now. But I believe I have seen this problem
for a long time. It didn't cause any trouble before because I usually
install emacs as root. I will keep an eye on it.

>
>   Jan D.

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Re: Executable deleted after first run

[Leo]

* Eli Zaretskii (2007-01-01 00:15 +0200) said:
  ^
>> From: Leo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2006 16:14:05 +
>> Cc: emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org
>> 
>> My past experience seems to tell me w32 doesn't support such link.
>
> Actually, it does (on NTFS volumes).  Try add-name-to-file on such a
> volume some day.

Good to know. Thanks.

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Re: Executable deleted after first run

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Leo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2006 16:14:05 +
> Cc: emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org
> 
> My past experience seems to tell me w32 doesn't support such link.

Actually, it does (on NTFS volumes).  Try add-name-to-file on such a
volume some day.


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Re: Executable deleted after first run

[Leo]

Hi Jan,

* Jan Djärv (2006-12-31 18:24 +0100) said:
  ^
> Leo skrev:
>> Hi all,
>> 
>> To reproduce,
>
>> 
>> 1. compile and install Emacs in dir "~/packages/emacs22"
>> 
>> 2. go to ~/packages/emacs22/bin and run Emacs with ./emacs
>> 
>> 3. Quit Emacs and executable emacs is gone.
>> 
>> I am left with these files in bin dir:
>> /home/leo/packages/emacs22/bin/ (allfiles)
>>  |-(f)b2m
>>  |-(f)ctags
>>  |-(f)ebrowse
>>  |-(f)emacs-22.0.92
>>  |-(f)emacsclient
>>  |-(f)etags
>>  |-(f)grep-changelog
>>  +-(f)rcs-checkin
>> 
>> Tested on: GNU Emacs 22.0.92.1 (i686-pc-linux-gnu, GTK+ Version
>> 2.6.4) of 2006-12-30 on soup
>> 
>
> I can't reproduce this on GNU/Linux.  Does this happen if you run
> with ./emacs -Q as well ?
>
>   Jan D.

I did make install to get back emacs but was not able to reproduce
this bug. I am running make bootstrap again and will report back.

regards,
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Re: Executable deleted after first run

[Jan Djärv]

Leo skrev:
> Hi all,
> 
> To reproduce,
> 
> 1. compile and install Emacs in dir "~/packages/emacs22"
> 
> 2. go to ~/packages/emacs22/bin and run Emacs with ./emacs
> 
> 3. Quit Emacs and executable emacs is gone.
> 
> I am left with these files in bin dir:
> /home/leo/packages/emacs22/bin/ (allfiles)
>  |-(f)b2m
>  |-(f)ctags
>  |-(f)ebrowse
>  |-(f)emacs-22.0.92
>  |-(f)emacsclient
>  |-(f)etags
>  |-(f)grep-changelog
>  +-(f)rcs-checkin
> 
> Tested on: GNU Emacs 22.0.92.1 (i686-pc-linux-gnu, GTK+ Version 2.6.4)
> of 2006-12-30 on soup
> 

I can't reproduce this on GNU/Linux.  Does this happen if you run with ./emacs
-Q as well ?

Jan D.



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Re: Executable deleted after first run

[Leo]

Hi Lennart,

* Lennart Borgman (2006-12-31 17:02 +0100) said:
  ^^^
> Leo wrote:
>> Hi all,
>>
>> To reproduce,
>>
>> 1. compile and install Emacs in dir "~/packages/emacs22"
>>
>> 2. go to ~/packages/emacs22/bin and run Emacs with ./emacs
>>
>> 3. Quit Emacs and executable emacs is gone.
>
> What did you expect? You quitted Emacs, didn't you
> ;-)
>
> Can't reproduce this on w32, CVS Emacs 2006-12-30.

Thanks for testing.

In GNU/Linux, in the bin dir, emacs is a hardlink to emacs-22.0.92
when installed. After I run Emacs from that dir by using "./emacs",
file 'emacs' is gone.

My past experience seems to tell me w32 doesn't support such link.

regards,
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Re: Executable deleted after first run

[Lennart Borgman (gmail)]

Leo wrote:

Hi all,

To reproduce,

1. compile and install Emacs in dir "~/packages/emacs22"

2. go to ~/packages/emacs22/bin and run Emacs with ./emacs

3. Quit Emacs and executable emacs is gone.


What did you expect? You quitted Emacs, didn't you
;-)


Can't reproduce this on w32, CVS Emacs 2006-12-30.


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Executable deleted after first run

[Leo]

Hi all,

To reproduce,

1. compile and install Emacs in dir "~/packages/emacs22"

2. go to ~/packages/emacs22/bin and run Emacs with ./emacs

3. Quit Emacs and executable emacs is gone.

I am left with these files in bin dir:
/home/leo/packages/emacs22/bin/ (allfiles)
 |-(f)b2m
 |-(f)ctags
 |-(f)ebrowse
 |-(f)emacs-22.0.92
 |-(f)emacsclient
 |-(f)etags
 |-(f)grep-changelog
 +-(f)rcs-checkin

Tested on: GNU Emacs 22.0.92.1 (i686-pc-linux-gnu, GTK+ Version 2.6.4)
of 2006-12-30 on soup

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