Re: [Emc-developers] EtherCAT - would not be a prob with free membership in EtherCAT Technology Group Re: LinuxCNC is in Debian!

[Stefan Asmus]

Below is Daniel Rogge ( Tormach CEO) email. He seems happy to correspond via 
email to people who have questions about their products. I have spoken to him 
about the software for their new ZA6 robot and he was happy to answer questions.

dro...@tormach.com

From: Rod Webster 
Sent: Friday, 4 March 2022 12:11 PM
To: EMC developers 
Subject: Re: [Emc-developers] EtherCAT - would not be a prob with free 
membership in EtherCAT Technology Group Re: LinuxCNC is in Debian!

>  Anyone close to ROS?
Tormach. Anyone close to Tormach?

Rod Webster
*1300 896 832*
+61 435 765 611
Vehicle Modifications Network
www.vehiclemods.net.au


On Fri, 4 Mar 2022 at 11:07, Steffen Möller  wrote:

> Rod,
>
> I wish some of our LinuxCNC Gurus would know some of the ROS Gurus and
> jointly meditate over this. We should possibly not discuss this too much
> as a sole CNC/robotics problem. This tech is useful whenever you need to
> synchronize something between multiple machines/devices.
>
> I truly don't know what we should be doing as a community. Anyone close
> to ROS?
>
> Best,
> Steffen
>
>
> On 03.03.22 20:55, Rod Webster wrote:
> > Steffen
> >
> > You have done some amazing work and we now know what we are dealing with
> > rather than just guessing as we've done before.
> >
> > I think its not about the last 20 years but about the next 20. I think we
> > will see an increasing number of ethercat capable devices in use as more
> > vendors adopt the technology.
> > There are also an increasing number of linuxcnc users using the software
> on
> > commercial projects and retrofits of commercial machines.
> >
> > ROS appear to be simply embedding the SOEM in a sub folder in their
> > ethercat master wrapper based on an article they link to in the readme. I
> > guess they can do this under  the GPL.
> >
> > Any restrictions appear to be placed on users of the technology, not the
> > software developer. Linuxcnc does not use software, our members do. This
> is
> > an important distinction.
> > I think this allows Linuxcnc to treat the proposed driver as being GPL'd
> at
> > a distribution level like ROS has.
> >
> > Now we know of the SOEM's existence, it would be preferable to use it
> over
> > the IgH ethercat master if it's compatible with our architecture. It's a
> > much tighter integration then.
> >
> > It's clear that membership is not required. I can't see any impediment to
> > building a separate repository like has been done with mesaflash that
> > embeds the SOEM like ROS has done. If the rules change, it will be simple
> > to excise the orphaned child or just remove the SOEM subfolder.
> >
> >
> > Rod Webster
> > *1300 896 832*
> > +61 435 765 611
> > Vehicle Modifications Network
> > www.vehiclemods.net.au
> >
> >
> > On Fri, 4 Mar 2022 at 02:22, Steffen Möller 
> wrote:
> >
> >> Hi Marc,
> >>
> >> yes, something like http://wiki.ros.org/soem ? I have not followed that
> >> up.
> >>
> >> Best,
> >> Steffen
> >>
> >> On 03.03.22 16:54, Marc Wang wrote:
> >>> Hi Steffen,
> >>>
> >>> By ROS, are you referring to Robotic Operating System (
> >> https://www.ros.org/)?
> >>>
> >>> Regards,
> >>> Marc
> >>>
> >>> 
> >>> From: andy pugh 
> >>> Sent: Thursday, March 3, 2022 10:49 AM
> >>> To: EMC developers 
> >>> Subject: Re: [Emc-developers] EtherCAT - would not be a prob with free
> >> membership in EtherCAT Technology Group Re: LinuxCNC is in Debian!
> >>> On Thu, 3 Mar 2022 at 15:14, Steffen Möller 
> >> wrote:
>  But he took the freedom to point out that there are others who
>  are already shipping EtherCAT drivers and have not experienced any
> legal
>  problem at all - he just cannot make any promises of any sorts about
> the
>  future
> >>> There is quite a gap between "we don't plan to turn evil" and "we
> >>> promise not to turn evil"
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> atp
> >>> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> >>> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> >>> lunatics."
> >>> — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ___
> >>> Emc-developers mailing list
> >>> Emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net
> >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-developers
> >>>
> >>> ___
> >>> Emc-developers mailing list
> >>> Emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net
> >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-developers
> >>
> >> ___
> >> Emc-developers mailing list
> >> Emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net
> >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-developers
> >>
> > ___
> > Emc-developers mailing list
> > Emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-developers
>
>
> _

Re: [Emc-developers] 2.8 Situation

[Stefan Asmus]

Maybe a section in the forum where people post the work they want to have done 
and prospective developers get in contact with them?

From: Rod Webster 
Sent: Monday, 15 June 2020 12:14 PM
To: EMC developers 
Subject: Re: [Emc-developers] 2.8 Situation

My original suggestion was that there should be a mechanism that allowed
people who wanted to engage a developer to connect with interested
developers. I still think thats not  a bad idea and does not go against
the spirit of the project. When you have a project where you need help you
have no idea who to turn to.

The good news (for me) is that I've made significant progress with the
enhancements to State Tags I wanted and know how to get it to work. Maybe
I'll learn enough about git to put a PR forward. I still have a lot to
learn but it seemed to me there was a lot of redundant code with a massive
setup structure in the interpreter that seemed to duplicate a lot of the
shared memory variables. Once I finally worked out that the interpreter
kept its own copy of state tags, I made some progress pretty quickly but it
does not seem an ideal algorithm. I think adding a series of motion.tag.nnn
pins that publish all of the available tags would be a useful enhancement
and make the State tags actually useful!

But I'm still looking for a developer to do the hard stuff!

Rod Webster
*1300 896 832*
+61 435 765 611
VMN®
www.vmn.com.au



On Mon, 15 Jun 2020 at 11:10, Phill Carter  wrote:

> If an individual or a business wants to contract a developer to do work
> for them then I don't see a problem with that. They can then choose whether
> or not they would like to contribute that back to the LinuxCNC project
> although it would be preferable if they did so.
>
> I don't think that LinxCNC as a community should be paying developers nor
> should it have a commercial arm/entity or whatever you want to call it.
>
>
>
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Re: [Emc-developers] 2.8 Situation

[Stefan Asmus]

>As for "commercialisation" I dont believe it is the way to go and having
>long term funded roles threatens what Linuxcnc is and introduces many other
>dynamic whilst we are not in a perfect world at the moment it would be more
>complex and difficult if it were commercialised in my view

I have not been around here long in the scheme of things but – how did Tormach 
work out its funding of their development project? My understanding is the Path 
Pilot was a derivative of LinuxCNC. Did that have any negative effects? Just 
curious.


From: Dean Forbes (PERS)<mailto:d...@deanforbes.com>
Sent: Monday, 15 June 2020 4:27 AM
To: EMC developers<mailto:emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net>
Subject: Re: [Emc-developers] 2.8 Situation

I am not a developer and an not hugley active on the linuxcnc forum and am
not a CNC expert but am an enthusiast and would like to share my view

Linuxcnc is an open source product but it is also a community

As a community it will have its moments, groups of people with different
views goals etc etc

Ideas or issues are floated on the mailing list people go off and create or
fix different parts and then submit them for inclusion in the "product"
So on that basis if people had some features that the community or the
communities gate keeper felt appropriate I can not see an issue with them
funding that and that then submitting that for inclusion - there would be
no guarantee for inclusion or rejection
Open source stuff is dealt with by people in there spare time that is just
one of the attributes if there are enough people (and demand) it tends to
move quicker if not then it does not

As for the infrastructure or organization a safe pair of hand can be hard
to find people sometimes despite being finished with a role are nervous to
step back from the role formally and think I will just keep doing it but
never quite manage to despite good intentions  .In my opinion some
times there needs to be a gap left for people to fill and this can be hard
if the predecessor was particularly good - people will be or could be
apprehensive to step into that space
It has been a while since we had a major release,  someone has stepped
forward to take that role on and my guess is he is still finding his feet
and as a community I feel we need to give the next release a chance to make
its way to the finish line and  give the person in the release role all the
support we can

I feel that Linuxcnc is in very capable hands

As for "commercialisation" I dont believe it is the way to go and having
long term funded roles threatens what Linuxcnc is and introduces many other
dynamic whilst we are not in a perfect world at the moment it would be more
complex and difficult if it were commercialised in my view

I may have missed the point and gone off on a ramble - I hope not

Just my 5 cents








On Sun, 14 Jun 2020 at 15:04, Rod Webster  wrote:

> >I'm not a linuxcnc developer, but I'm working on to become one ;)
> I'm not a Linuxcnc developer and I'm trying  hard NOT to become one. But
> you do what you have to do so I will follow in your footsteps  Reinhardt!
> And self-flagelation is fun sometimes!
>
> Rod Webster
> *1300 896 832*
> +61 435 765 611
> VMN®
> www.vmn.com.au<http://www.vmn.com.au>
>
>
>
> On Mon, 15 Jun 2020 at 00:01, Julian Wingert 
> wrote:
>
> > Well, I myself don't have the time to work on lcnc. But paying a few
> > hundred bucks some time or low 2figure regularly wouldn't be an issue.
> >
> > Best regards
> > Julian
> >
> > On 14 June 2020 15:57:08 CEST, Reinhard 
> > wrote:
> > >Hi Stefan,
> > >
> > >On Sonntag, 14. Juni 2020, 15:49:32 CEST Stefan Asmus wrote:
> > >> So what is the worst case scenario? More forks pop up like
> > >MachineKit?
> > >
> > >Sorry, my post was not against you!
> > >Although I quoted your mail.
> > >
> > >I HATE people, that travel on goods for nothing and who have the
> > >impertinence
> > >to put in a claim. That's all.
> > >
> > >I'm not a linuxcnc developer, but I'm working on to become one ;)
> > >
> > >
> > >cheers Reinhard
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >___
> > >Emc-developers mailing list
> > >Emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net
> > >https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-developers
> >
> > --
> > Mit freundlichen Grüßen aus Pinneberg
> > Julian Wingert
> >
> > Subtilitas Consulting
> >
> > Holstenstr. 25
> > 25421 Pinneberg
> >
> > Phone: 0170/4516094
> > FAX: 03212-1479681
> > Mail: julian.w

Re: [Emc-developers] 2.8 Situation

[Stefan Asmus]

So what is the worst case scenario? More forks pop up like MachineKit? Or you 
guys do nothing and let another project overtake what you have already worked 
so hard for. Why not grab it by the balls and see what it can truly do? 
LinuxCNC is already capable of so much. I am sure it can do more and do it much 
better with some money invested in it.

From: Reinhard<mailto:reinha...@schwarzrot-design.de>
Sent: Sunday, 14 June 2020 11:42 PM
To: EMC developers<mailto:emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net>
Subject: Re: [Emc-developers] 2.8 Situation

On Sonntag, 14. Juni 2020, 15:34:37 CEST Stefan Asmus wrote:
> they have to accept that the work is based upon a open source framework that
> cannot be copyrighted.

That's the point.

To be precise - the open source framework IS already copyrighted.
Just read the file COPYING from the project root.

That file contains a paragraph referred to warranty.
With that in mind, there's absolutely NO base for any requirement.


cheers Reinhard




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Re: [Emc-developers] 2.8 Situation

[Stefan Asmus]

I have no issues with my proposed paid development being made open source. But 
I understand that others will have that issue. I would say that if that is what 
the client wants, they have to accept that the work is based upon a open source 
framework that cannot be copyrighted.

From: Julian Wingert<mailto:julian.wing...@web.de>
Sent: Sunday, 14 June 2020 11:29 PM
To: EMC developers<mailto:emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net>
Subject: Re: [Emc-developers] 2.8 Situation

And you can bet your bottom dollar there are hundreds of others willing to pay.
Question is how we keep this project from being ripped apart.
Because we sure as hell will have some who are afraid of commercial involvement.

Julian

On 14 June 2020 15:22:07 CEST, Stefan Asmus  wrote:
>I am not a developer (well I will try on some projects in the near
>future), But I have used PlasmaC on my industrial plasma machine I
>designed and built. I spent close to $40K AUD on the build and I if I
>wanted to use a commercial plasma software, the Hypertherm software
>controller I was quoted was close to $30K for just a controller and the
>software.
>
>LinuxCNC has opened a whole new world of possibilities for me as far as
>what can be done relatively cheaply.  If you follow the plasma forum
>section you will see posts of what I use my machine for on a daily
>basis. LinuxCNC has made that possible.
>
>In the future I would like to sponsor some development. I plan to
>design and build six axis welding robots. I am sure if will be possible
>with LinuxCNC, I just need to get some parts of the software set up to
>do what I want. If there was a system in place for paid developer work
>I will surely consider investing in it.
>
>From: N<mailto:nicklas.karlsso...@gmail.com>
>Sent: Sunday, 14 June 2020 11:12 PM
>To: EMC developers<mailto:emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net>
>Subject: Re: [Emc-developers] 2.8 Situation
>
>> Moin! (north german hello)
>>
>> I would like to add some thoughts.
>>
>> 1. Releases are a must have. Think about someone having a 1
>Dollar Maschine being brocken by a Bug. I for myself am very cautious
>about testing new versions, as my machine has 2x 2KW servos on y-axis,
>easy able to tear the machine apart...
>
>If you do not want to take the risk you do not have to. If you have a
>1 Dollar machine maybe it's worth spending some money on commercial
>control system, maybe they are more responsible.
>
>> 2. If there are spenders, bring them on. What about a patreon for
>lcnc? And payment is done in 3 tiles, one in advance, one @integration
>and one @release. We make a list of open things, define a price and
>publish them. I for myself would be OK with the one organizing getting
>paid for his work.
>
>Might be a good idea but I do currently not know anything I am prepared
>to pay for to get done except maybe a little bit of money.
>
>
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Mit freundlichen Grüßen aus Pinneberg
Julian Wingert

Subtilitas Consulting

Holstenstr. 25
25421 Pinneberg

Phone: 0170/4516094
FAX: 03212-1479681
Mail: julian.wing...@subtilitas.de

USt-IdNr.: DE272503212
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Re: [Emc-developers] 2.8 Situation

[Stefan Asmus]

I am not a developer (well I will try on some projects in the near future), But 
I have used PlasmaC on my industrial plasma machine I designed and built. I 
spent close to $40K AUD on the build and I if I wanted to use a commercial 
plasma software, the Hypertherm software controller I was quoted was close to 
$30K for just a controller and the software.

LinuxCNC has opened a whole new world of possibilities for me as far as what 
can be done relatively cheaply.  If you follow the plasma forum section you 
will see posts of what I use my machine for on a daily basis. LinuxCNC has made 
that possible.

In the future I would like to sponsor some development. I plan to design and 
build six axis welding robots. I am sure if will be possible with LinuxCNC, I 
just need to get some parts of the software set up to do what I want. If there 
was a system in place for paid developer work I will surely consider investing 
in it.

From: N
Sent: Sunday, 14 June 2020 11:12 PM
To: EMC developers
Subject: Re: [Emc-developers] 2.8 Situation

> Moin! (north german hello)
>
> I would like to add some thoughts.
>
> 1. Releases are a must have. Think about someone having a 1 Dollar 
> Maschine being brocken by a Bug. I for myself am very cautious about testing 
> new versions, as my machine has 2x 2KW servos on y-axis, easy able to tear 
> the machine apart...

If you do not want to take the risk you do not have to. If you have a 1 
Dollar machine maybe it's worth spending some money on commercial control 
system, maybe they are more responsible.

> 2. If there are spenders, bring them on. What about a patreon for lcnc? And 
> payment is done in 3 tiles, one in advance, one @integration and one 
> @release. We make a list of open things, define a price and publish them. I 
> for myself would be OK with the one organizing getting paid for his work.

Might be a good idea but I do currently not know anything I am prepared to pay 
for to get done except maybe a little bit of money.


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Re: [Emc-developers] New 2.8 Release Manager

[Stefan Asmus]

I also do not have a say, but I have been getting these developer emails for a 
while. And I would say from what I have seen Andy has been the cornerstone of 
pushing the development as of late.
He has also helped me out on the forum on a number of occasions.

I am sure he will do a fine job.



Regards
Stefan Asmus

From: Julian Wingert 
Sent: Thursday, 2 April 2020 10:08 AM
To: EMC developers 
Subject: Re: [Emc-developers] New 2.8 Release Manager

As I don't have a say ;) in this I also like Andy. He helped me 7 years ago and 
ia active since constantly...

Am 2. April 2020 00:52:32 MESZ schrieb Rod Webster :
>I second the nomination of Andy 😉
>
>Rod Webster
>*1300 896 832*
>+61 435 765 611
>VMN®
>www.vmn.com.au<http://www.vmn.com.au>
>
>
>
>On Thu, 2 Apr 2020 at 08:43, Phill Carter 
>wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> > On 2 Apr 2020, at 5:08 am, andy pugh  wrote:
>> >
>> > I have had a brief discussion with Moses, the current 2.8 Release
>> > Manager and he has said that he is more than happy to relinquish
>the
>> > reins.
>> >
>> > So, we need a new release manager.
>> >
>> > Does anyone know what the process is for deciding on one? As far as
>I
>> > can recall Moses was selected in an IRC meeting. I see an old email
>> > where Seb put himself forward as 2.6 release manager back in 2013,
>and
>> > that mentions an IRC meeting too.
>> >
>> > Do we want to go the same way, or should we try an online voting
>> > system like the Doodle polls that have been used to choose the
>dates
>> > for Stuttgart meetups? (
>> > https://doodle.com/poll/7aeg98zwbi6qrtvx/welcome )
>> >
>> > Of course, this all falls over if we have no candidates
>> >
>> > I am happy to start the ball rolling and offer to have a go, but I
>am
>> > not 100% convinced that I have the requisite experience so will
>> > happily step back if others want the job.
>>
>> I guess if you end up being the only candidate we won't need a poll.
>😉
>>
>> I don't have have enough experience either but am willing to help in
>any
>> way I can. It probably shouldn't be left to the release manager to do
>all
>> the grunt work either. I am sure there would be enough of us to each
>make a
>> contribution and get this done.
>>
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Phone: 0170/4516094
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Mail: julian.wing...@subtilitas.de

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