Re: STP vs FTP Ethernet cables (2)
Paolo Roncone wrote: The reason of my inquiry is that we bought samples of STP and FTP cat.5 cables for 10bT ethernet applications from different vendors and to our surprise we discovered that both STP and FTP types have an overall (external) shield made of aluminum foil, but no shields on individual wires or wire couples (as per 802.3 definition above). Maintaining a characteristic impedence of a twisted pair by shielding the individual wires of that twisted pair? Something doesn't sound right. - Doug McKean --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
Power Amplifier for 2 GHz Immunity
Hello Forum, I was wondering what amplifier you are using for the 2 GHz testing requirement of EN61000-4-3? Any comments regarding if I had to do it over again, I would have . . . relative to your 2 GHz setup? Best regards, Don Umbdenstock Sensormatic --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
RE: Military Equipment and the EU
Hi Folks
We have been into this subject in some detail as we supply a lot of
equipment into this market.
The situation varies enormously between Directives - there is certainly not
a common approach in the New Approach Directives.
Our current reading of the situation is
LVD
- No exemptions in the Directive, and certainly not in implementing UK
legislation, or in that of any other EU country of which we have heard.
EMC
- No exemption in the Directive, but exemptions in some national
legislation, e.g. the UK Electromagnetic Compatibility Regs 1992, Clause 20.
i.e:
Military equipment
20.-(1) These Regulations do not apply to military equipment.
(2) In this regulation, military equipment means apparatus which is
designed for use as arms, munitions and war material within the meaning of
Article 223.1(b) of the Treaty establishing the European Economic Community
(notwithstanding that it may be capable of other applications), but does not
include apparatus which is designed both for such use and for other
applications.
Note: Note the use of the word designed for - which might be interpreted
as meaning that equipment designed for military use can be used elsewhere
and yet still be excluded!
We have heard that there are exemptions in most other EU countries, notably
and - at one time - the draft European standard for dual pupose equipment
{CENELEC CLC/TC210(SEC)35/36 (BS Draft for Public Comment 97/200728) EMC
Conformity of Equipment Designed for Military and Other Purposes identified
Germany/Austria/Norway as not having exemptions. We think that the situation
has changed (especially for Germany) but we are still seeking proof.
RTTE Directive
- Exemptions in the Directive in Article 1 Scope and aim sub-para 5 This
Directive shall not apply to apparatus exclusively used for activities
concerning public security, defence, State security (including the economic
well-being of the State in the case of activities pertaining to State
security matters) and the activities of the State in the area of criminal
law.
Note: This refers to equipment used for these purposes, whether or not it
was designed for them!
Machinery Directive
- Exemptions in Directive in Article 1. Sub-article 3 machines specially
designed and constructed for military or police purposes
Note: This looks like the UK exemption from the EMC Directive - and quite
different from the RTTE Directive!
General Note:
In general, note the exclusivity clauses do not exclude equipment for
dual-use (military and non-military) as this needs to comply for
non-military sales.
Hope this helps a bit.
HOWEVER, if anyone can fill in the situation on the national legislation -
notably for the EMC Directive - in countries with which they are familiar
then we would be most grateful.
Regards
John Allen, Thales Defence Communications, Bracknell UK
-Original Message-
From: Stewart, Judd [ mailto:stewart.jud...@sd.littonisd.com
mailto:stewart.jud...@sd.littonisd.com ]
Sent: 04 September 2001 18:16
To: 'EMC-PSTC'
Subject: Military Equimpment and the EU
Good morning!
I am faced with coming up with a regulatory strategy for equipment that
will be sold to a foreign military (member of the EU). The equipment is
entirely military and has military unique attributes. The products range
from battery operated hand held devices to laptops that can use a battery
adapter which plugs into the mains.
All units have LI-ION batteries and High voltage inverters for powering the
LCD backlight.
Some have a standard PCMIA card slot which will allow the user to install a
commercial modem if he chooses. We do not provide this card
I have reviewed the LVD and EMC directives and find no exclusion for
military equipment. Is there?
What other directives may be applicable?
Thanks in advance
Judd Stewart
Northrop Grumman
San Diego Calif.
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FET probe caution
Hi All, Did you know that a common accessory for FET probes can, in some cases, cause a significant error in the measurement? My September Technical Tidbit at: http://www.dsmith.org describes the problem. The accessory in question is a probe tip with a small ground spring or pin on a hinge and uses a small ferrite core to improve probe response. Its use can make the FET probe ten times more sensitive to logic noise on the board and other EMI that you are not trying to measure. Such a sensitivity can cause one to see a glitch that is not there on a logic signal, a real time burner in the development lab or troubleshooting environment. The article presents scope data to show the magnitude of the problem which affects several brands of FET probes. The Technical Tidbit area is at the bottom of the index page. -- In addition, I have posted pictures to the website from Montreal and the IEEE EMC Symposium that was held there a few weeks ago. The link to the pictures is just above the Technical Tidbit area at the bottom of the index page. Doug -- --- ___ _ Doug Smith \ / ) P.O. Box 1457 = Los Gatos, CA 95031-1457 _ / \ / \ _ TEL/FAX: 408-356-4186/358-3799 / /\ \ ] / /\ \ Mobile: 408-858-4528 | q-( ) | o |Email: d...@dsmith.org \ _ /]\ _ / Website: http://www.dsmith.org --- --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
Re: Military Equipment and the EU
The situation for 'military equipment' is complex. Certain directives have specific exclusions for military equipment, although I am told that not every member state has actually included such provisions in their national legislation in every case. There is also a blanket exclusion under the treaty of Rome which member states may claim where they believe their national security interests are at risk but as I understand it this is something the member state government would have to apply and cannot simply be claimed by the manufacturer of military equipment. I have also been told (by the responsible bod in the UK Ministry) that the equipment actually has to be specifically military in nature to be eligible for exclusion where such an exclusion is given in the directives. Accordingly it must have only a military (or police) application (e.g. it must be an offensive weapon of some description). Just because it is being sold to the armed forces does not make it automatically exempt from the CE mark requirements. The situation (in the UK at least) is further complicated by the status of the Crown with respect to health and safety legislation. This has implications for the CE marking of some equipment because the work equipment directives require products provided for employees' use to meet the applicable essential requirements of the New Approach directives. The actual application of this to the military is far from simple - in effect the occupational HS Regulations apply in peace time but not during active service, although the legal situation is actually a lot more complex than this. Furthermore, most military installations include civilian government employees for whom the crown immunity does not apply, and if we start to include the status of the different police forces, things get _really_ complicated! My advice is to consider that the CE Directives do apply regardless of the status of the products with respect to any exemption. If you take this on board at an early stage and plan accordingly, it is likely that little or no additional testing (etc) will be required to that which will be required to meet the military purchase specification anyway. Where it will get a bit more complex is where (if) there is a direct conflict between the 'CE requirements' (indolent shorthand, but I think you'll know what I mean) and the customer's military spec. If you need or want to apply a military/police exclusion from CE marking, try to get a formal notification of some sort that this is permitted from the EU member state in question. Hope that helps - drop me a line direct if I can help further. Regards Nick. At 10:16 -0700 4/9/2001, Stewart, Judd wrote: Good morning! I am faced with coming up with a regulatory strategy for equipment that will be sold to a foreign military (member of the EU). The equipment is entirely military and has military unique attributes. The products range from battery operated hand held devices to laptops that can use a battery adapter which plugs into the mains. All units have LI-ION batteries and High voltage inverters for powering the LCD backlight. Some have a standard PCMIA card slot which will allow the user to install a commercial modem if he chooses. We do not provide this card I have reviewed the LVD and EMC directives and find no exclusion for military equipment. Is there? What other directives may be applicable? Thanks in advance Judd Stewart Northrop Grumman San Diego Calif. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
Re: Military Equimpment and the EU
I read in !emc-pstc that wo...@sensormatic.com wrote (in 846BF526A205F8 4BA2B6045BBF7E9A6A43A272@flbocexu05) about 'Military Equimpment and the EU', on Tue, 4 Sep 2001: I forgot one - the Battery Directive applies to all batteries. Anti-aircraft batteries? (;-) -- Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Eat mink and be dreary! --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
Re: Military Equimpment and the EU
I read in !emc-pstc that wo...@sensormatic.com wrote (in 846BF526A205F8 4BA2B6045BBF7E9A6A43A270@flbocexu05) about 'Military Equimpment and the EU', on Tue, 4 Sep 2001: The RTTE Directive would apply if the equipment intentionally transmits or receives using the rf spectrum or if the equipment connects to the telephone network. The Machinery Directive would apply if moving parts present higher risks than electrical hazards (see the directive for the details). These Directives do not necessarily apply to military equipment. It is up to the military agency concerned to specify its requirements -- Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Eat mink and be dreary! --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
Re: Military Equimpment and the EU
I read in !emc-pstc that Stewart, Judd stewart.jud...@sd.littonisd.com wrote (in 408ae30013d2d3118d3700508b3102a3e0f...@nt.littondsd.com) about 'Military Equimpment and the EU', on Tue, 4 Sep 2001: I am faced with coming up with a regulatory strategy for equipment that will be sold to a foreign military (member of the EU). Your customer has not told you what its EMC requirements are? It certainly should have! -- Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Eat mink and be dreary! --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
