Re: [PSES] safety 60950 and surge suppression circuits

[Joe Randolph]

Hi Rich:
Thanks for responding to my request for an explanation of the logic
behind allowing SPDs across isolation barriers.
Overall, the principles you outline seem reasonable if the equipment has
a reliable earth connection.  I'm not yet convinced that these
principles adequately address equipment where the SPD is not connected to
a reliable earth.  I will try to illustrate with a simple
example.  
While my example will be based on equipment that has no connection to
protective earth, I should note that I also have concerns about equipment
that uses what I call an "unreliable earth," which is an earth
connection obtained solely through the ground pin on a Type A plug. 
However, to keep things simple, I will not address that case
here.
Since I work mostly with telecom equipment that has to comply with clause
6 of 60950-1, I will focus on how clauses 6.1.2 and 6.2 address the
placement of an SPD across a required isolation barrier.  A typical
example might be a fax machine that uses a class 2 power supply with no
connection to protective earth.  This fax machine connects to a
phone line and also connects to a computer via a USB port.
Clause 6.1.2 requires 1500 VRMS isolation between the phone line and the
USB port.  However, this 1500 VRMS barrier is allowed to be bridged
by a 400 volt SPD.  So, in normal use, the effective isolation is
400 volts.  If the SPD fails short, the isolation is zero. 
Since the equipment has no connection to earth, protective earth has no
role in the operation of the SPD.
Clause 6.2 requires a 1000 VRMS barrier between the phone line and
accessible parts, and also between the phone line and the USB port. 
However, these two barriers are allowed to be bridged by an SPD of any
voltage whatsoever.  For purposes of discussion, let's assume the
designer chose to use a 200 volt SPD.  So, in normal use, the
effective isolation would be 200 volts.  If the SPD fails short, the
isolation is zero.  Since the equipment has no connection to earth,
protective earth has no role in the operation of the SPD.

DISCUSSION
My principal question is why a safety standard would go to the trouble of
calling out an isolation barrier of 1000 or 1500 VRMS, and then
immediately state that it is okay to bridge this isolation barrier with
an SPD.  In normal use, the effective isolation barrier is the
breakdown threshold of the SPD.  So what is the point of specifying
an isolation barrier and then allowing it to be defeated in normal
use?  If the isolation requirement is trying to address a perceived
safety hazard, why doesn't that hazard exist in normal use (with the SPD
installed)?
My theory is this:  At some point long ago, safety experts
determined that bridging an isolation barrier with an SPD would be okay
if the SPD was connected to a reliable earth.  Over time, this
constraint (connecting the SPD to a reliable earth) got lost, and the SPD
exemption found its way into requirements such as 6.1.2 and 6.2 that do
not explicitly require any earth connection whatsoever.  So, even
though the SPD is not connected to a reliable earth, it has somehow been
allowed anyway.  I think this may be an oversight in the
standard.
It seems to me that the *only* technical justification for allowing an
SPD to bridge an isolation barrier is if the SPD is connected to a
reliable earth.  That explanation makes sense to me and seems
defensible.  However, in the absence of this constraint , allowing
an SPD to be connected across an isolation barrier does not seem to make
any sense at all.

Joe Randolph
Telecom Design Consultant
Randolph Telecom, Inc.
781-721-2848 (USA)
j...@randolph-telecom.com
http://www.randolph-telecom.com



Hi Joe:

Sorry for the delay in my reply to your questions.
SPDs are used on mains circuits, both between the
poles and poles to earth.  In this latter application,
the SPD is in parallel with basic insulation.
SPDs are also used on low-voltage external circuits
that are subject to transient over-voltages such as
antenna circuits and telephone circuits.  The SPDs
are between the external circuit and earth, or
between the external circuit and the mains circuit.
In this latter case, for the purposes of a transient
over-voltage originating in the external circuit,
the mains circuit is a connection to earth.
Usually, within the equipment, these external
circuits are isolated from earth and from equipment
secondary circuits.  Indeed, the standards require
such isolation (to protect personnel touching such
circuits downstream from the equipment).
But, because these circuits are low voltage, the
isolation system is not a safety isolation, i.e, is
not a basic insulation.
Nevertheless, because the external circuits are
subject to transient over-voltages, the isolation
system must withstand such over-voltages.  Therefore,
the isolation system is subject to an electric
strength test.  And, the isolation system can be
bridged by an SPD at the discretion of the designer.
The principle I described in my previous me

Re: [PSES] recording Temp, % RH & AP

[Brian Oconnell]

I have used the Vaisala (sp?) stuff. They make some nice modules where all
three sensors are embeded in same assembly and do I/O via RS232,422, or 485;
which I like to use on a current loop. Nice range and accuracy for most labs
inhabitable by humans.

As for LabView, meh - would be more apt to spend my spare time at an old
ladies classical music chamber society then doing LV. LV has serial IO and
string parsing VIs, so feel free to draw wires and move boxes about the
screen...

Brian

-Original Message-
From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org]On Behalf Of Kunde, Brian
Sent: Friday, May 31, 2013 1:09 PM
To: oconne...@tamuracorp.com; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: RE: [PSES] recording Temp, % RH & AP

I'm in the market for a good reasonably priced Temp/%RH/AP meter/recorder
device which I can easily and directly read from my computer with Labview.
Any suggested brands and model numbers?

I want to read the values directly so programming command information is a
must. SCPI, Ethernet, Serial, etc..

Any suggestions?

The Other Brian



-Original Message-
From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Brian
Oconnell
Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 2:56 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: RE: [PSES] recording Temp, % RH & AP

This is a good example for 'lets just get it done now' where the staff does
no work other than mounting on wall.

There are some long-term problems with this class of stuff.
What ya gonna do when your last XP/7 box dies?
Can I suck data out of it and/or calibrate without proprietary software?
Modularity = long-term support.

My policy for all lab equipment has served me well for several years, is if
no SCPI, then it had better be readable ASCII, and all commands part of user
instructions. IVI is even better.

Brian

-Original Message-
From: Boštjan Glavič [mailto:bostjan.gla...@siq.si]
Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 11:13 AM
To: 
Cc: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] recording Temp, % RH & AP

Dear Julias,

I believe it is enough to measure pressure in one location only. So you can
save some money on calibration

We are using omega dataloger in every room. It can store data up to 1 month
without the problem and batteries are ok for 6 months.

See below link.

Best regards,
Bostjan

http://www.omega.com/ppt/pptsc.asp?ref=OM-CP-PRHTEMP2000&Nav=tems08



On 28. maj 2013, at 18:42, "Brian Oconnell"
mailto:oconne...@tamuracorp.com>> wrote:

Measurement and recording of ambient conditions (temperature, RH, and
atmospheric pressure) are and instrumentation and HVAC-control issue. Made
more complex for larger labs and/or multiple equipment installed that emit
significant amounts of heated/humidified air.

There is, of course, the most basic solution of mounting those circular
chart recorders about the lab.

My solution has been to measure and record where the HVAC-control head is
located, and measure/record at the EUT. The other important variables are
the placement of the HVAC sensors, placement of exhaust ports, and control
of heating/cooling air flow.

Data logging is not complex - use decent sensors and an old PC-box or
seldom-used server. This will become a legacy system - think very long-term
support, so use very simple code (ANSI C or Python) that just streams the
data to a CSV file. I recently helped a colleague develop a logging system
where each sensor station run by a local microcontroller that dumps data on
command via a RS422 current-loop.

The remaining issue, for ISO17025 stuff, is calibration. Design modular
sensor heads that can be detached and sent to cal lab, or buy sensor stuff
intended for that purpose.

And if you buy American sensors, you may have to run the data through Google
Translate to get British data.

Brian

-Original Message-
From: emc-p...@ieee.org
[mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org]On Behalf Of Julian Jones
Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 7:54 AM
To: emc-p...@ieee.org
Subject: recording Temp, % RH & AP

I am interested in how people record the local lab environmental conditions.
When we only had one test area it was easy. Has anyone got an automated
logging to a database system working that they can recommend ?

The fall back would be to buy several discrete meters and have one per area,
but then there is the usual error between cheap units.

Any suggestions greatly appreciated.

Julian Jones
Hursley EMC Services
Tel:   023 8027 
Mob: 07787 523 607
julian.jo...@hursley-emc.co.uk
Trafalgar House, Trafalgar Close, Chandlers Ford EASTLEIGH, Hampshire, SO53
4BW Company Registration 3301279

-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to
mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>>

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/

[PSES] Test Equipment for Sale

[Scott Douglas]

Forwarded to the list for a subscriber by Scott Douglas. Please respond 
directly to the subscriber and not to the list.


Fellow Listserver members of long standing!

By degrees, I will be placing my inventory of test lab equipment onto 
the *http://www.labmerchant.com* website. The first batch went live today.


I have ran test labs for over 30 years including DEC UK who helped me 
establish my own lab, INTERTest Systems (UK), which I operated for 14 yrs.


Putting all that experience to good use, I have transitioned into 
Technical Assessment of test laboratories and my own lab is now surplus 
to requirements.


It's difficult to put a price on equipment you've looked after but I've 
tried to value it conservatively, and I'm open to offers. Much of the 
equipment was bought for its quality, regardless of cost by 'you-know-who'.


More applicable to UK based organisations with the ability to refurbish 
climatic chambers. I have two Fisons/Gallencamp/Sanyo walk-in 
environmental chambers. They are dis-mantled and ready to go. One is 2.4 
x 2.4 x 2.4M and a smaller one. Details, specs and User manuals 
available (email me).


I hope I have captured your interest.

Eric.

eric.m...@emtas.co.uk



-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion 
list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas 
Mike Cantwell 

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  
David Heald: 

Re: [PSES] recording Temp, % RH & AP

[Brian Ceresney]

I'm also interested in this type of recorder. Please include me in any 
responses.  
Brian C.


-Original Message-
From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Kunde, Brian
Sent: May-31-13 1:09 PM
To: oconne...@tamuracorp.com; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: RE: [PSES] recording Temp, % RH & AP

I'm in the market for a good reasonably priced Temp/%RH/AP meter/recorder 
device which I can easily and directly read from my computer with Labview. Any 
suggested brands and model numbers?

I want to read the values directly so programming command information is a 
must. SCPI, Ethernet, Serial, etc..

Any suggestions?

The Other Brian



-Original Message-
From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Brian Oconnell
Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 2:56 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: RE: [PSES] recording Temp, % RH & AP

This is a good example for 'lets just get it done now' where the staff does no 
work other than mounting on wall.

There are some long-term problems with this class of stuff.
What ya gonna do when your last XP/7 box dies?
Can I suck data out of it and/or calibrate without proprietary software?
Modularity = long-term support.

My policy for all lab equipment has served me well for several years, is if no 
SCPI, then it had better be readable ASCII, and all commands part of user 
instructions. IVI is even better.

Brian

-Original Message-
From: Boštjan Glavič [mailto:bostjan.gla...@siq.si]
Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 11:13 AM
To: 
Cc: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] recording Temp, % RH & AP

Dear Julias,

I believe it is enough to measure pressure in one location only. So you can 
save some money on calibration

We are using omega dataloger in every room. It can store data up to 1 month 
without the problem and batteries are ok for 6 months.

See below link.

Best regards,
Bostjan

http://www.omega.com/ppt/pptsc.asp?ref=OM-CP-PRHTEMP2000&Nav=tems08



On 28. maj 2013, at 18:42, "Brian Oconnell"
mailto:oconne...@tamuracorp.com>> wrote:

Measurement and recording of ambient conditions (temperature, RH, and 
atmospheric pressure) are and instrumentation and HVAC-control issue. Made more 
complex for larger labs and/or multiple equipment installed that emit 
significant amounts of heated/humidified air.

There is, of course, the most basic solution of mounting those circular chart 
recorders about the lab.

My solution has been to measure and record where the HVAC-control head is 
located, and measure/record at the EUT. The other important variables are the 
placement of the HVAC sensors, placement of exhaust ports, and control of 
heating/cooling air flow.

Data logging is not complex - use decent sensors and an old PC-box or 
seldom-used server. This will become a legacy system - think very long-term 
support, so use very simple code (ANSI C or Python) that just streams the data 
to a CSV file. I recently helped a colleague develop a logging system where 
each sensor station run by a local microcontroller that dumps data on command 
via a RS422 current-loop.

The remaining issue, for ISO17025 stuff, is calibration. Design modular sensor 
heads that can be detached and sent to cal lab, or buy sensor stuff intended 
for that purpose.

And if you buy American sensors, you may have to run the data through Google 
Translate to get British data.

Brian

-Original Message-
From: emc-p...@ieee.org
[mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org]On Behalf Of Julian Jones
Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 7:54 AM
To: emc-p...@ieee.org
Subject: recording Temp, % RH & AP

I am interested in how people record the local lab environmental conditions.
When we only had one test area it was easy. Has anyone got an automated logging 
to a database system working that they can recommend ?

The fall back would be to buy several discrete meters and have one per area, 
but then there is the usual error between cheap units.

Any suggestions greatly appreciated.

Julian Jones
Hursley EMC Services
Tel:   023 8027 
Mob: 07787 523 607
julian.jo...@hursley-emc.co.uk
Trafalgar House, Trafalgar Close, Chandlers Ford EASTLEIGH, Hampshire, SO53 4BW 
Company Registration 3301279

-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>>

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to th

Re: [PSES] recording Temp, % RH & AP

[Kunde, Brian]

I'm in the market for a good reasonably priced Temp/%RH/AP meter/recorder 
device which I can easily and directly read from my computer with Labview. Any 
suggested brands and model numbers?

I want to read the values directly so programming command information is a 
must. SCPI, Ethernet, Serial, etc..

Any suggestions?

The Other Brian



-Original Message-
From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Brian Oconnell
Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 2:56 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: RE: [PSES] recording Temp, % RH & AP

This is a good example for 'lets just get it done now' where the staff does no 
work other than mounting on wall.

There are some long-term problems with this class of stuff.
What ya gonna do when your last XP/7 box dies?
Can I suck data out of it and/or calibrate without proprietary software?
Modularity = long-term support.

My policy for all lab equipment has served me well for several years, is if no 
SCPI, then it had better be readable ASCII, and all commands part of user 
instructions. IVI is even better.

Brian

-Original Message-
From: Boštjan Glavič [mailto:bostjan.gla...@siq.si]
Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 11:13 AM
To: 
Cc: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] recording Temp, % RH & AP

Dear Julias,

I believe it is enough to measure pressure in one location only. So you can 
save some money on calibration

We are using omega dataloger in every room. It can store data up to 1 month 
without the problem and batteries are ok for 6 months.

See below link.

Best regards,
Bostjan

http://www.omega.com/ppt/pptsc.asp?ref=OM-CP-PRHTEMP2000&Nav=tems08



On 28. maj 2013, at 18:42, "Brian Oconnell"
mailto:oconne...@tamuracorp.com>> wrote:

Measurement and recording of ambient conditions (temperature, RH, and 
atmospheric pressure) are and instrumentation and HVAC-control issue. Made more 
complex for larger labs and/or multiple equipment installed that emit 
significant amounts of heated/humidified air.

There is, of course, the most basic solution of mounting those circular chart 
recorders about the lab.

My solution has been to measure and record where the HVAC-control head is 
located, and measure/record at the EUT. The other important variables are the 
placement of the HVAC sensors, placement of exhaust ports, and control of 
heating/cooling air flow.

Data logging is not complex - use decent sensors and an old PC-box or 
seldom-used server. This will become a legacy system - think very long-term 
support, so use very simple code (ANSI C or Python) that just streams the data 
to a CSV file. I recently helped a colleague develop a logging system where 
each sensor station run by a local microcontroller that dumps data on command 
via a RS422 current-loop.

The remaining issue, for ISO17025 stuff, is calibration. Design modular sensor 
heads that can be detached and sent to cal lab, or buy sensor stuff intended 
for that purpose.

And if you buy American sensors, you may have to run the data through Google 
Translate to get British data.

Brian

-Original Message-
From: emc-p...@ieee.org
[mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org]On Behalf Of Julian Jones
Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 7:54 AM
To: emc-p...@ieee.org
Subject: recording Temp, % RH & AP

I am interested in how people record the local lab environmental conditions.
When we only had one test area it was easy. Has anyone got an automated logging 
to a database system working that they can recommend ?

The fall back would be to buy several discrete meters and have one per area, 
but then there is the usual error between cheap units.

Any suggestions greatly appreciated.

Julian Jones
Hursley EMC Services
Tel:   023 8027 
Mob: 07787 523 607
julian.jo...@hursley-emc.co.uk
Trafalgar House, Trafalgar Close, Chandlers Ford EASTLEIGH, Hampshire, SO53 4BW 
Company Registration 3301279

-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>>

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas mailto:emcp...@radiusnorth.net>>
Mike Cantwell mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org>>

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org>>
David Heald: mailto:dhe...@gmail.com>>

-

This message is from the IEEE Pr

Re: [PSES] NSA

[Ken Javor]

Big mistake on my part ­ my apologies. I was confused on acronyms and was
thinking of NSA 65-6, a spec on measuring shielding effectiveness.  I now
realize from context below that the question pertained to normalized site
attenuation and concur that this is done with identical antennas.

Ken Javor
Phone: (256) 650-5261



From: "Kunde, Brian" 
Date: Fri, 31 May 2013 15:44:11 +
To: "Paasche, Dieter" ,
"EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG" 
Conversation: NSA
Subject: RE: NSA

I don¹t think you ³Have To², but I highly recommend it.
 
We use a set of identical antenna pairs that we send out to perform NSA at
Liberty Labs large OATS site in Iowa to acquire the antenna factors. When we
do NSA, we open velvet lined golden caskets housing these antennas, perform
the NSA tests on our chamber by exactly duplicating the test done in Iowa,
then return the antennas to their nest where they slumber until the next NSA
test.
 
When performing NSA, everything factors out except for the antennas, so we
do everything possible to maintain their integrity. Since we have been using
this method, doing NSA is no longer a nightmare. Zip Zip Done.
 
The Other Brian
 

From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Paasche,
Dieter
Sent: Friday, May 31, 2013 10:02 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: NSA
 
For and NSA do you HAVE TO use an identical pair of antennas?
 
Sincerely, 
 
Dieter Paasche 
 
-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to


All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in
well-used formats), large files, etc.

Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas 
Mike Cantwell 

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher 
David Heald 

LECO Corporation Notice: This communication may contain confidential
information intended for the named recipient(s) only. If you received this
by mistake, please destroy it and notify us of the error. Thank you.
-


This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to


All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in
well-used formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas 
Mike Cantwell 

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher  
David Heald 



-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 


All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas 
Mike Cantwell 

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  
David Heald: 

Re: [PSES] NSA

[Kunde, Brian]

I don't think you "Have To", but I highly recommend it.

We use a set of identical antenna pairs that we send out to perform NSA at 
Liberty Labs large OATS site in Iowa to acquire the antenna factors. When we do 
NSA, we open velvet lined golden caskets housing these antennas, perform the 
NSA tests on our chamber by exactly duplicating the test done in Iowa, then 
return the antennas to their nest where they slumber until the next NSA test.

When performing NSA, everything factors out except for the antennas, so we do 
everything possible to maintain their integrity. Since we have been using this 
method, doing NSA is no longer a nightmare. Zip Zip Done.

The Other Brian

From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Paasche, Dieter
Sent: Friday, May 31, 2013 10:02 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: NSA

For and NSA do you HAVE TO use an identical pair of antennas?

Sincerely,

Dieter Paasche

-


This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>>

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: 
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas mailto:emcp...@radiusnorth.net>>
Mike Cantwell mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org>>

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org>>
David Heald mailto:dhe...@gmail.com>>


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Re: [PSES] NSA

[Ken Javor]

NSA 65-6 does indeed show identical antennas. Since shielding effectiveness
is a relative measurement, if you had a knowledgeable customer and you used
complimentary antennas (covering same frequency range and with same
polarization and not ridiculously high gain that puts one antenna in the
extreme near field of the other) you might get away with dissimilar antennas
such as a low gain horn and a log periodic, or (above 200 MHz) a tuned
dipole working against a log periodic.

Ken Javor
Phone: (256) 650-5261



From: "Paasche, Dieter" 
Date: Fri, 31 May 2013 14:01:32 +
To: "EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG" 
Conversation: NSA
Subject: NSA

For and NSA do you HAVE TO use an identical pair of antennas?
 
Sincerely, 
 
Dieter Paasche 
 
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This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to


All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
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Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in
well-used formats), large files, etc.

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Instructions:  http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html
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Scott Douglas 
Mike Cantwell 

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher  
David Heald 



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This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 


All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
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formats), large files, etc.

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Scott Douglas 
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[PSES] NSA

[Paasche, Dieter]

For and NSA do you HAVE TO use an identical pair of antennas?

Sincerely,

Dieter Paasche


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This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 


All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
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Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
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Mike Cantwell 

For policy questions, send mail to:
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