Re: [PSES] Job titles
Socially, the only time I truly explain to people what I do is if I want to get rid of them quickly. Let’s face it, to someone not ‘in the industry’ it’s got to be the ultimate in dull and uninteresting jobs. If I don’t want to drive the people I’m talking to away, or if she’s attractive :-) I just say ‘I work in product assurance, making sure electronic stuff is safe and complies with all sorts of international regulations’. I leave it at that, people will ask questions of they're interested, but that doesn't happen often. I just move the conversation on to my leasure persuits as a Test Pilot, Racing Driver, Powerboat Racer and all-'round Bon Vivant... [sighs]. T - Original Message - From: Doug Powell Sent: 10/04/13 05:52 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Job titles All, Thank you all for replying, many good pointers and a couple I had not thought of. When explaining my work to extended family members, I start in and quickly get that glazed look in the eye when I’ve lost them. So I usually explain I do EMC which is like making sure an appliance does not interfere with your TV or pacemaker. Or I explain I do the work to get that safety label (UL, CSA, TUV, etc.) on the back of your kitchen appliance. Now, these are not products I generally see, but they can relate to them very well. thanks, –doug Douglas E Powell doug...@gmail.com http://www.linkedin.com/in/dougp01 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] Ferrite on LAN Cable
Yes it was KDB number 981555. But, as mentioned the specific question was for detachable power cables. That being said I have personally witnessed many products with detachable cables with loose ferrites in the box for the customer to install especially on recent televisions. -Chad From: Bill Owsley [mailto:wdows...@yahoo.com] Sent: Friday, October 04, 2013 10:25 PM To: Bell, Chad; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Ferrite on LAN Cable Was this response on the KDB, the Knowledge Data Base? If so, what is the number? That is where the FCC makes rulings on a near day to day bases. And those reasons are very similar to the ones given for the EU requirement. From: Bell, Chad chad_b...@bose.commailto:chad_b...@bose.com To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORGmailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Sent: Friday, October 4, 2013 8:49 AM Subject: Re: [PSES] Ferrite on LAN Cable Gary, Here is the response from the FCC on the same question except we asked about adding a ferrite on the power cable. “The power cord with ferrite snaps and clamps for conducted emission compliance has got to be supplied as one unit. That is to say, the ferrite snaps and clamps must be incorporated into the power cord such that the purchaser of the electronic device does not have to put the ferrite snap or clamp onto the power cord when he or she is assembling the device for operation. The reason is that the FCC's historically knows that the buyer or purchaser of the electronic device will not put the ferrite snap or clamp onto the power cord and as a result the manufacturer must incorporate it into the power cord.” Sincerely, Chad Bell From: Myers, Gary [mailto:gary.my...@xerox.com] Sent: Friday, October 04, 2013 8:11 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORGmailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] Ferrite on LAN Cable EMC Experts, If an ITE product requires a ferrite on an external LAN cable in order to comply with FCC Part 15 and EU EMC Directive requirements, is it legally required that the manufacturer include the LAN cable fitted with the ferrite with the ITE product, or can the manufacturer simply provide the ferrite along with detailed installation instructions for the end user to add the ferrite to his own LAN cable? Thanks, Gary Myers - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.orgmailto:emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.netmailto:emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.orgmailto:mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.orgmailto:j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.commailto:dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.orgmailto:emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.netmailto:emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.orgmailto:mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.orgmailto:j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.commailto:dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Re: [PSES] Ferrite on LAN Cable
The KDB *supplements* the Part 15 Rules. I would start with Part 15.27. Also consider who is installing the equipment. Consumer or Professional? -Bob From: Bell, Chad [mailto:chad_b...@bose.com] Sent: Monday, October 07, 2013 9:54 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Ferrite on LAN Cable Yes it was KDB number 981555. But, as mentioned the specific question was for detachable power cables. That being said I have personally witnessed many products with detachable cables with loose ferrites in the box for the customer to install especially on recent televisions. -Chad From: Bill Owsley [mailto:wdows...@yahoo.com] Sent: Friday, October 04, 2013 10:25 PM To: Bell, Chad; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORGmailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Ferrite on LAN Cable Was this response on the KDB, the Knowledge Data Base? If so, what is the number? That is where the FCC makes rulings on a near day to day bases. And those reasons are very similar to the ones given for the EU requirement. From: Bell, Chad chad_b...@bose.commailto:chad_b...@bose.com To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORGmailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Sent: Friday, October 4, 2013 8:49 AM Subject: Re: [PSES] Ferrite on LAN Cable Gary, Here is the response from the FCC on the same question except we asked about adding a ferrite on the power cable. “The power cord with ferrite snaps and clamps for conducted emission compliance has got to be supplied as one unit. That is to say, the ferrite snaps and clamps must be incorporated into the power cord such that the purchaser of the electronic device does not have to put the ferrite snap or clamp onto the power cord when he or she is assembling the device for operation. The reason is that the FCC's historically knows that the buyer or purchaser of the electronic device will not put the ferrite snap or clamp onto the power cord and as a result the manufacturer must incorporate it into the power cord.” Sincerely, Chad Bell From: Myers, Gary [mailto:gary.my...@xerox.com] Sent: Friday, October 04, 2013 8:11 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORGmailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] Ferrite on LAN Cable EMC Experts, If an ITE product requires a ferrite on an external LAN cable in order to comply with FCC Part 15 and EU EMC Directive requirements, is it legally required that the manufacturer include the LAN cable fitted with the ferrite with the ITE product, or can the manufacturer simply provide the ferrite along with detailed installation instructions for the end user to add the ferrite to his own LAN cable? Thanks, Gary Myers - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.orgmailto:emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.netmailto:emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.orgmailto:mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.orgmailto:j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.commailto:dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.orgmailto:emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.netmailto:emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.orgmailto:mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.orgmailto:j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.commailto:dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to
[PSES] Standards copyright lawsuit
There is occasionally much haranguing regarding how standards should be free. The NFPA has joined ASHRAE and ASTMhttp://www.nfpa.org/newsandpublications/nfpa-journal/2013/september-october-2013/pov/first-word?order_src=C247to claim otherwise. Regards, Peter L. Tarver This email message is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and/or privileged information. If you are not an intended recipient, you may not review, use, copy, disclose or distribute this message. If you received this message in error, please contact the sender by reply email and destroy all copies of the original message. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] Standards copyright lawsuit
The problem is, of course, that by incorporating copyrighted documents into the Code of Federal Regulations by reference, various agencies render invisible laws we are all required to obey -- unless we go to their reading rooms (I think) to find out. In practice? We on this list work or have worked for firms who could afford to buy copies of their own. But imagine one day finding that one has been convicted in absentia of speeding through a town without speed limit signs, limits available only by subscription. Cortland Richmond On 10/7/2013 1135, Peter Tarver wrote: There is occasionally much haranguing regarding how standards should be free. The NFPA has joined ASHRAE and ASTM http://www.nfpa.org/newsandpublications/nfpa-journal/2013/september-october-2013/pov/first-word?order_src=C247 to claim otherwise. Regards, Peter L. Tarver - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] Standards copyright lawsuit
CortlandI am not certain you speed limit example explains the point you are trying to make.Here in Colorado we have the Colorado Revised Statutes, or CRS. In these laws are all the requirements for citizens to follow so they are in compliance with the law. In practice posted speed limits are akin to the warning labels we put on products like: Danger High Voltage or Speed Limit 65. In my state we can go to the government website and read any portion of the CRS for free. Same with the US Code of Federal Regulations. Now, if this were available only by paid subscription, then your point would be made. Of course, how many citizens actually read the law in its entirety? I suspect it is less than even 1%. Hence the need for posted cautionary and warning statements.DougFrom: Cortland RichmondSent: Monday, October 7, 2013 12:32 PMTo: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORGReply To: k...@earthlink.netSubject: Re: [PSES] Standards copyright lawsuit The problem is, of course, that by incorporating copyrighted documents into the Code of Federal Regulations "by reference," various agencies render invisible laws we are all required to obey -- unless we go to their reading rooms (I think) to find out. In practice? We on this list work or have worked for firms who could afford to buy copies of their own. But imagine one day finding that one has been convicted in absentia of speeding through a town without speed limit signs, limits available only by subscription. Cortland Richmond On 10/7/2013 1135, Peter Tarver wrote: There is occasionally much haranguing regarding how "standards should be free." The NFPA has joined ASHRAE and ASTM to claim otherwise. Regards, Peter L. Tarver - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com
[PSES] EMC Directive Test Plan
All, I have been told that the EMC directive requires a test plan to be created before testing begins, especially when using a third party lab. I flipped through the directive and guide to 2004/108/EC, and was unable to find this requirement. Did I miss something? Is it just that the manufacturer is supposed to do an EMC assessment? Thanks, David - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
