Re: [PSES] Y2 capacitor in DC circuit

2014-11-10 Thread Brian Oconnell
Non-sequitur.  Either the cap is rated for the working voltage, or should not 
be used where the component required to provide basic protection from shock. 
There are several mfrs that make 300Vac X and Y-caps that are also specified 
for 1kVdc. The problem is that the IEC60384-14 cert will not indicate that the 
1kVdc is a rating.

Brian

From: Boštjan Glavič [mailto:bostjan.gla...@siq.si] 
Sent: Monday, November 10, 2014 11:04 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] Y2 capacitor in DC circuit

Dear experts,

I have one question. One of our clients is generating high voltage DC bus out 
of primary circuit without the insulation. This 800VDC circuit is therefore 
considered as part of primary circuit. They are using Y2 capacitor between this 
DC voltage and PE (accross basic insulation). Measured working voltage accross 
the capacitor was 800VDC (worse case). Y2 capacitor has only rating for AC 
voltage (250V). They could not find any Y capacitor with DC voltage. Do you see 
any issue with such construction?

Best regards,
Bostjan
SIQ

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Re: [PSES] Y2 capacitor in DC circuit

2014-11-10 Thread Richard Nute
 

 

Hi Boštjan:

 

 

A Y2 capacitor is rated 250 V a.c., 5 kV peak
impulse.  According to IEC 60384-14, rated voltage
is "either the r.m.s. operating voltage of rated
frequency, or the d.c. operating voltage, which
may be applied continuously to the terminations of
a capacitor."   Impulse voltage is "aperiodic
transient voltage of a defined waveform."

 

800 V d.c. exceeds the Y2 rating.  You can expect
failure of the capacitor - maybe not immediately -
with possibly explosive results.

 

I would look for a capacitor (you won't find a
suitable Y capacitor as Y-caps have a maximum
rating of 250 V) rated for the a.c. voltage, d.c.
voltage, and impulse voltage.  I would guess that
you could get such a cap from some Y-cap
suppliers.  Your client probably needs to ask them
to design and build the caps according to the use
specs.

 

 

Best regards,

Rich

 

 


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Re: [PSES] Y2 capacitor in DC circuit

2014-11-10 Thread John Woodgate
In message , 
dated Mon, 10 Nov 2014, =?iso-8859-2?Q?Bo=B9tjan_Glavi=E8?= 
 writes:


I have one question. One of our clients is generating high voltage DC 
bus out of primary circuit without the insulation. This 800VDC circuit 
is therefore considered as part of primary circuit. They are using Y2 
capacitor between this DC voltage and PE (accross basic insulation). 
Measured working voltage accross the capacitor was 800VDC (worse case). 
Y2 capacitor has only rating for AC voltage (250V). They could not find 
any Y capacitor with DC voltage. Do you see any issue with such construction?


Of course: the Y2 capacitor is being used a long way outside its 
ratings. It may stand 800 V DC for a while, but only for a while. It may 
burn up.


I think they should look very carefully to see if it is necessary to 
have a capacitor from the 800 V DC to PE.

--
OOO - Own Opinions Only. With best wishes. See www.jmwa.demon.co.uk
Quid faciamus nisi sit?
John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK

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[PSES] Y2 capacitor in DC circuit

2014-11-10 Thread Boštjan Glavič
Dear experts,

I have one question. One of our clients is generating high voltage DC bus out 
of primary circuit without the insulation. This 800VDC circuit is therefore 
considered as part of primary circuit. They are using Y2 capacitor between this 
DC voltage and PE (accross basic insulation). Measured working voltage accross 
the capacitor was 800VDC (worse case). Y2 capacitor has only rating for AC 
voltage (250V). They could not find any Y capacitor with DC voltage. Do you see 
any issue with such construction?

Best regards,
Bostjan
SIQ


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Re: [PSES] Open Protective Earth Conductor Fault

2014-11-10 Thread Joe Randolph
As I recall, touch current is effectively measured with the ground pin lifted.  
The rationale is that there should be no hazard even if the safety ground is 
left floating.

 

Joe Randolph

Telecom Design Consultant

Randolph Telecom, Inc.

781-721-2848 (USA)

  j...@randolph-telecom.com

  http://www.randolph-telecom.com

 

From: Scott Aldous [mailto:0220f70c299a-dmarc-requ...@ieee.org] 
Sent: Monday, November 10, 2014 11:40 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Open Protective Earth Conductor Fault

 

Standards typically apply touch or leakage current limits to plug-connected 
products. I believe that potential for an unreliable ground connection at the 
receptacle the product plugs into is at least as important a concern as the 
potential for faults inside the product itself. For example, in an old house in 
the USA with 2 prong outlets, it is common for the homeowner to simply use 
"cheater plug" adapters to avoid having to connect the ground pin at all. This 
could well be considered outside the intended use, but people will do it 
anyway, at least for a consumer product.

 

On Sun, Nov 9, 2014 at 11:00 PM, John Woodgate mailto:j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk> > wrote:

In message <01cffc76$850f8100$8f2e8300$@wellman.com  >, 
dated Sun, 9 Nov 2014, Ronald Wellman mailto:rwell...@wellman.com> > writes:


I would like to know if anyone has had an experience where a product actually 
experienced an open protective earth conductor fault after it left the factory. 
 If you have, what was the Root Cause?


Two cases:

- failure of weld of PE connection stud to metalwork;

- enclosure fixing screw severed PE connection in mains cable internal to the 
product.

Both products were small and no excessive touch current occurred.

I ask this because there are various standards that allow you to waive the 
touch current test because of the product connection means  to the building 
branch circuit. Because of this, I would like to know who has actually 
experienced a touch current hazard and under what conditions.


Regardless of what the standard allows, I would measure and minimise touch 
current, and as far as possible make the internal PE connection secure (i.e. 
screw or nut and bolt, no welded stud).
-- 
OOO - Own Opinions Only. With best wishes. See www.jmwa.demon.co.uk 
 
Quid faciamus nisi sit?
John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK

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-- 

Scott Aldous

Compliance Engineer

Google

650-253-1994

scottald...@google.com  

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ht

Re: [PSES] [External] Re: [PSES] Open Protective Earth Conductor Fault

2014-11-10 Thread Wiseman, Joshua E BIS
Years ago I worked for a company that produced an ITE product.  The power 
supply manufacturer had sent a batch of power supplies that the nut was not 
properly tightened on the PE conductor to chassis.  We actually found the 
problem during our production line ground bond testing.  After some testing we 
found an increased leakage current but still within the limits of the standard.

Not quite in the realm of the original question, but it shows that proper line 
testing can find errors that could result in issues in the field.

Josh

From: Scott Aldous [mailto:0220f70c299a-dmarc-requ...@ieee.org]
Sent: Monday, November 10, 2014 10:40 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [External] Re: [PSES] Open Protective Earth Conductor Fault

Standards typically apply touch or leakage current limits to plug-connected 
products. I believe that potential for an unreliable ground connection at the 
receptacle the product plugs into is at least as important a concern as the 
potential for faults inside the product itself. For example, in an old house in 
the USA with 2 prong outlets, it is common for the homeowner to simply use 
"cheater plug" adapters to avoid having to connect the ground pin at all. This 
could well be considered outside the intended use, but people will do it 
anyway, at least for a consumer product.

On Sun, Nov 9, 2014 at 11:00 PM, John Woodgate 
mailto:j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk>> wrote:
In message <01cffc76$850f8100$8f2e8300$@wellman.com>, 
dated Sun, 9 Nov 2014, Ronald Wellman 
mailto:rwell...@wellman.com>> writes:

I would like to know if anyone has had an experience where a product actually 
experienced an open protective earth conductor fault after it left the factory. 
 If you have, what was the Root Cause?

Two cases:

- failure of weld of PE connection stud to metalwork;

- enclosure fixing screw severed PE connection in mains cable internal to the 
product.

Both products were small and no excessive touch current occurred.
I ask this because there are various standards that allow you to waive the 
touch current test because of the product connection means  to the building 
branch circuit. Because of this, I would like to know who has actually 
experienced a touch current hazard and under what conditions.

Regardless of what the standard allows, I would measure and minimise touch 
current, and as far as possible make the internal PE connection secure (i.e. 
screw or nut and bolt, no welded stud).
--
OOO - Own Opinions Only. With best wishes. See 
www.jmwa.demon.co.uk
Quid faciamus nisi sit?
John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK

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David Heald: mailto:dhe...@gmail.com>>



--
Scott Aldous
Compliance Engineer
Google
650-253-1994
scottald...@google.com
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Re: [PSES] Open Protective Earth Conductor Fault

2014-11-10 Thread Scott Aldous
Standards typically apply touch or leakage current limits to plug-connected
products. I believe that potential for an unreliable ground connection at
the receptacle the product plugs into is at least as important a concern as
the potential for faults inside the product itself. For example, in an old
house in the USA with 2 prong outlets, it is common for the homeowner to
simply use "cheater plug" adapters to avoid having to connect the ground
pin at all. This could well be considered outside the intended use, but
people will do it anyway, at least for a consumer product.

On Sun, Nov 9, 2014 at 11:00 PM, John Woodgate  wrote:

> In message <01cffc76$850f8100$8f2e8300$@wellman.com>, dated Sun, 9
> Nov 2014, Ronald Wellman  writes:
>
>
>> I would like to know if anyone has had an experience where a product
>> actually experienced an open protective earth conductor fault after it left
>> the factory.  If you have, what was the Root Cause?
>>
>
> Two cases:
>
> - failure of weld of PE connection stud to metalwork;
>
> - enclosure fixing screw severed PE connection in mains cable internal to
> the product.
>
> Both products were small and no excessive touch current occurred.
>
>  I ask this because there are various standards that allow you to waive
>> the touch current test because of the product connection means  to the
>> building branch circuit. Because of this, I would like to know who has
>> actually experienced a touch current hazard and under what conditions.
>>
>
> Regardless of what the standard allows, I would measure and minimise touch
> current, and as far as possible make the internal PE connection secure
> (i.e. screw or nut and bolt, no welded stud).
> --
> OOO - Own Opinions Only. With best wishes. See www.jmwa.demon.co.uk
> Quid faciamus nisi sit?
> John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK
>
> -
> 
> This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc
> discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <
> emc-p...@ieee.org>
>
> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
> http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html
>
> Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at
> http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in
> well-used formats), large files, etc.
>
> Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
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> unsubscribe)
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>
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> Mike Cantwell 
>
> For policy questions, send mail to:
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> David Heald: 
>



-- 
Scott Aldous
Compliance Engineer
Google
650-253-1994
scottald...@google.com

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[PSES] JOB OPENING -- PerkinElmer, Shelton, CT USA

2014-11-10 Thread Bouse, John
Hello Group,



PerkinElmer has a job opening for a Compliance Engineer (safety and EMC) at its 
Shelton, CT  USA facility.



Please review the requirements at this web site:

https://perkinelmer.tms.hrdepartment.com/jobs/5708/Compliance-EngineerShelton-CT



If qualified and interested, then please select "I was referred by a 
PerkinElmer employee"

[JOHN BOUSE]   in the box next to "How did you hear about this job?" and press

"SUBMIT YOUR RESUME TO THIS JOB".





Regards,

John



www.perkinelmer.com







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