[PSES] ISM-use of a non-ISM frequency
Dear list members, Product in question is an ISM equipment. Classified according to EN 55011:2009/CISPR 11:2009 as class A, group 1 equipment. Using RF energy for a kind of skin treatment, with a probe at the end of a 1-1,5 m long cable. The EN 55011:2009/CISPR 11:2009 has increased radiation limits at the ISM frequencies, which are listed in table 1, but the product is using a frequency that is not in the table. Product is at stand by when the user is not pressing a button, emission being well under the limits. When the button is pressed, the frequency in use is about 5-15 dB above the limits (radiated/conducted). Also when all realistic means for reducing the emission have been introduced (including a good shielding of the cable, and reducing the power as much as possible). The button is pressed some seconds in periods. Using another frequency for the RF is unfortunately not possible. I think that asking a notified body and/or for a special permission/acceptance is a last chance for being able to CE-mark the product. Do you see others possibilities? Any experiance with such a permission, if at all possible? Regards, Niels Niels Hougaard Bolls ApS · Ved Gadekæret 11F, Slagslunde · DK-3660 Stenløse Tlf. +45 48 18 35 66 · Direkte +45 5379 6991 mailto:i...@bolls.dk i...@bolls.dk · http://www.bolls.dk/?utm_source=hjemmesideutm_medium=e-mail-signaturutm_c ampaign=hjemmeside www.bolls.dk - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.org Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] FCC and immunity
The immunity part goes something like This device must accept harmful interference -Dave -Original Message- From: Amund Westin [mailto:am...@westin-emission.no] Sent: Monday, January 19, 2015 7:22 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] FCC and immunity Still no EMC immunity requirements within FCC Part 15, right? Is immunity on the agenda or does it seems that only radiated and conducted emission will be the tests for the nearest future? Thanks. #Amund - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.org Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.org Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
[PSES] FCC and immunity
Still no EMC immunity requirements within FCC Part 15, right? Is immunity on the agenda or does it seems that only radiated and conducted emission will be the tests for the nearest future? Thanks. #Amund - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.org Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] FCC and immunity
That is correct. The FCC does not regulate immunity of equipment. The FCC's function is to regulate interstate and international communications and promote the effective and efficient use of the frequency spectrum in US territories (and of course enforce FCC regulations!). Bill Stumpf D.L.S. Electronic Systems, Inc. 166 South Carter Street Genoa City WI 53128 Ph: 262-279-0210 -Original Message- From: Paasche, Dieter [mailto:dieter.paas...@christiedigital.com] Sent: Monday, January 19, 2015 10:33 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] FCC and immunity It is my impression that FCC's would leave the immunity as a self-regulated requirement between manufacturer and user and just mentioned that the device must accept harmful interference. Sincerely, Dieter Paasche Advanced Product Developer, Electrical CHRISTIE 809 Wellington Street North Kitchener, Ontario N2G 4Y7 Phone: +1 519-744-8005 Ext 7211 www.christiedigital.com This e-mail message (including attachments, if any), is confidential. Any unauthorized use, distribution or disclosure is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail message in error, please notify the sender by reply e-mail or telephone and delete it and any attachments from your computer system and records. From: Amund Westin [mailto:am...@westin-emission.no] Sent: Monday, January 19, 2015 7:22 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] FCC and immunity Still no EMC immunity requirements within FCC Part 15, right? Is immunity on the agenda or does it seems that only radiated and conducted emission will be the tests for the nearest future? Thanks. #Amund - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.org Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.org Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.org Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)
[PSES] SV: [PSES] FCC and immunity
Many thanks for all inputs! #Amund -Opprinnelig melding- Fra: Bill Stumpf [mailto:bstu...@dlsemc.com] Sendt: 19. januar 2015 17:51 Til: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Emne: Re: [PSES] FCC and immunity That is correct. The FCC does not regulate immunity of equipment. The FCC's function is to regulate interstate and international communications and promote the effective and efficient use of the frequency spectrum in US territories (and of course enforce FCC regulations!). Bill Stumpf D.L.S. Electronic Systems, Inc. 166 South Carter Street Genoa City WI 53128 Ph: 262-279-0210 -Original Message- From: Paasche, Dieter [mailto:dieter.paas...@christiedigital.com] Sent: Monday, January 19, 2015 10:33 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] FCC and immunity It is my impression that FCC's would leave the immunity as a self-regulated requirement between manufacturer and user and just mentioned that the device must accept harmful interference. Sincerely, Dieter Paasche Advanced Product Developer, Electrical CHRISTIE 809 Wellington Street North Kitchener, Ontario N2G 4Y7 Phone: +1 519-744-8005 Ext 7211 www.christiedigital.com This e-mail message (including attachments, if any), is confidential. Any unauthorized use, distribution or disclosure is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail message in error, please notify the sender by reply e-mail or telephone and delete it and any attachments from your computer system and records. From: Amund Westin [mailto:am...@westin-emission.no] Sent: Monday, January 19, 2015 7:22 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] FCC and immunity Still no EMC immunity requirements within FCC Part 15, right? Is immunity on the agenda or does it seems that only radiated and conducted emission will be the tests for the nearest future? Thanks. #Amund - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.org Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.org Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.org Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can
Re: [PSES] FCC and immunity
It is my impression that FCC's would leave the immunity as a self-regulated requirement between manufacturer and user and just mentioned that the device must accept harmful interference. Sincerely, Dieter Paasche Advanced Product Developer, Electrical CHRISTIE 809 Wellington Street North Kitchener, Ontario N2G 4Y7 Phone: +1 519-744-8005 Ext 7211 www.christiedigital.com This e-mail message (including attachments, if any), is confidential. Any unauthorized use, distribution or disclosure is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail message in error, please notify the sender by reply e-mail or telephone and delete it and any attachments from your computer system and records. From: Amund Westin [mailto:am...@westin-emission.no] Sent: Monday, January 19, 2015 7:22 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] FCC and immunity Still no EMC immunity requirements within FCC Part 15, right? Is immunity on the agenda or does it seems that only radiated and conducted emission will be the tests for the nearest future? Thanks. #Amund - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.org Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.org Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.org Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] FCC and immunity
The FCC is charged with protection of the spectrum and licensed services, primarily. They leave the issue of immunity 'to the market.' Mike Violette Washington Laboratories American Certification Body mi...@wll.com +1 240 401 1388 On Jan 19, 2015, at 7:21 AM, Amund Westin wrote: Still no EMC immunity requirements within FCC Part 15, right? Is immunity on the agenda or does it seems that only radiated and conducted emission will be the tests for the nearest future? Thanks. #Amund - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.org Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.org Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] FCC and immunity
Very broadly, the USA FCC regulates (both intentional and unintentionable) emitters and not receivers when it promotes that efficient use concept. That's the way that the underlying Communications Act is applied. OTOH, they sometimes do get into control of receivers when they specify technical content like blocked frequency bands, minimum signal-to-noise ratios and tuning requirements. If that type of regulation on receivers was acceptable, then I don't see any barrier to the FCC someday deciding to impose immunity regulations on communication receivers. However, it would be a philosophical reach to try to apply immunity to all electronic devices in general. Ed Price WB6WSN Chula Vista, CA USA -Original Message- From: Bill Stumpf [mailto:bstu...@dlsemc.com] Sent: Monday, January 19, 2015 8:51 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] FCC and immunity That is correct. The FCC does not regulate immunity of equipment. The FCC's function is to regulate interstate and international communications and promote the effective and efficient use of the frequency spectrum in US territories (and of course enforce FCC regulations!). Bill Stumpf D.L.S. Electronic Systems, Inc. 166 South Carter Street Genoa City WI 53128 Ph: 262-279-0210 -Original Message- From: Paasche, Dieter [ mailto:dieter.paas...@christiedigital.com mailto:dieter.paas...@christiedigital.com] Sent: Monday, January 19, 2015 10:33 AM To: mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] FCC and immunity It is my impression that FCC's would leave the immunity as a self-regulated requirement between manufacturer and user and just mentioned that the device must accept harmful interference. Sincerely, Dieter Paasche Advanced Product Developer, Electrical CHRISTIE 809 Wellington Street North Kitchener, Ontario N2G 4Y7 Phone: +1 519-744-8005 Ext 7211 http://www.christiedigital.com www.christiedigital.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.org Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] SELV rated power supplies
Hi Dave: EN60950-1 is not equal to SELV. Certifications and reports do not necessarily indicate outputs are SELV, although careful reading of the test results can conclude that the outputs are SELV or not. Not all outputs of EN60950-1 power supplies are SELV and need not be. The power supplies are nevertheless EN60950-1 power supplies. The requirement for SELV is whether or not the circuit is accessible. Accessible circuits must be SELV. To perform a single-fault test, one must understand how the circuits operate, and what faults could cause the output to possibly exceed SELV limits. In today's power supply topology, such circuit analysis is not necessarily straight-forward. Your statement Therefore my contention is it cannot be assumed that a power supply listed as EN 60950-1 compliant on a manufacturer's data sheet is also SELV compliant unless explicitly stated so or proven in the test report results. is correct. Best regards, Rich - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.org Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
