Re: [PSES] CB Philosophy Questions

[Brian Ceresney]

Subject: [PSES] CB Philosophy Questions

Hello All,
Thanks to everyone who responded, especially for the sage advice.
Of the various facets of the Regulatory Compliance field, I find  that 
international approvals seem to be the most difficult.
Best Regards,
Brian Ceresney
Regulatory Lead
Delta-Q Technologies Corp.

Phone: +1.604.566.8827
Note: The comments here represent my opinions, not those of Delta-Q 
Technologies.
.


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This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 


All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
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Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
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Re: [PSES] Warning Label: Disconnect from Mains

[Brian Gregory]

 Hello again, Brian;  It sure does sound to me like you've done your basic 
diligence;  are the ANSI compliant symbols any different from the JIT compliant 
symbols?  Even when I was with an NRTL/NB organization, I was often irked by 
standards requirements that were not requested or considered useful by actual 
customers. That being said, I've got the feeling that an informed answer would 
require a fairly detailed account of "getting dinged in Europe"  Regards, Brian 
Gregory[Colorado] 
720-450-4933

-- Original Message --
From: "Kunde, Brian" 
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Warning Label: Disconnect from Mains
Date: Fri, 1 May 2015 18:15:40 +


Thanks Doug and Colorado Brian. We liked the look of the new ANSI labels so we 
switch over all the warning labels on our products to this style a few years 
ago. But now we are getting dinged in Europe and have to replace the labels 
with symbols only or with the text in the language of the country we sold in. 
This is difficult to do because sometime we ship instruments to our sales 
offices in Europe but we don’t know what country it might be sold in 
until it is purchased. 
 
Why don’t the EU just decide on one language like the Chinese did? (Those 
are fighting words). 
 
We do explain the meaning of our warning symbols in the User’s Manual and 
the manuals are translated into different languages depending on the country it 
is sold and what our customers want. The users of our type of instruments are 
generally well educated (scientists, chemists, engineers, technicians, etc.) 
and most of the time they are happy with English only. But when other languages 
are requested we try to provide them translated copies fairly quickly. 
It’s very costly , too.
 
Most of our customers send their Users for training at our facility in the US. 
Classes are in English Only. 

 The other Brian
 
From: dougp01 [mailto:doug...@gmail.com] 
 Sent: Friday, May 01, 2015 1:48 PM
 To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
 Subject: Re: [PSES] Warning Label: Disconnect from Mains
 
I agree with Colorado Brian. It seems that more and more, IEC-based standards 
are requiring a full explanation of symbols and warnings in the user 
documentation. As it turns out, many clients of mine leave the user manuals to 
the very last and they are usually very lacking. Where possible using symbols 
only is an economical option. 
 
One exception to using just symbols might be in certain industries where using 
an ANSI/IEC compliant labeling system is required.  ‎In this case some 
verbiage is required. The text should simply describe the problem and how to 
avoid it. Nothing more. Proper use of the keywords Danger, Warning, and Caution 
are also essential.  Since overstating the hazard is not advisable.
 
All the best, Doug

 
 

 
 
From: Brian Gregory
Sent: Friday, May 1, 2015 11:31 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Reply To: Brian Gregory
Subject: Re: [PSES] Warning Label: Disconnect from Mains
 
 
 
-- Original Message --
 From: "Kunde, Brian" 
 Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2015 18:54:17 +
Brian, thanks for your input. Can the potential hazard be addresses without 
English Text which may be misunderstood by those unfamiliar with the language? 
Wouldn’t Symbols Only be better? 
 
[Colorado Brian here]  Symbols ON the equipment are sufficient, and often 
preferred.  John's answer is also correct, that the symbols (even fully 
JIT-compliant ones) need explained, in all the appropriate languages (as 
defined by ND's), in the supplied documentation.  Any additional needed 
information can be added at this point by the manufacturer.  
 
 
So if AHJs, NRTLs, etc. like to see some kind of warning on the outside of 
electrical equipment, then won’t the Hazardous Voltage Warning symbol 
alone meet this requirement WITHOUT any Text?  
 
As the Machinery Directive states, “Information and warnings on the 
machinery should preferably be provided in the form of readily understandable 
symbols or pictograms.”
 
Bingo;  warnings on the machinery 
 
And in the case given in the 61010-1 standards, it doesn’t say that you 
have to use Text, but what the warning marking should state. A symbol or 
symbols can “state” or have the same meaning as text without the 
concern of the User needing to be able to understand the language of the text.  
 
I advise being verbose as possible in the documentation;  this can be in 
digital format, so needn't incur much additional expense.  You, as the 
manufacturer, are now officially on record as directing the end user:  DO this, 
NOT that... etc.   Wordy labels can be expensive, and possibly confusing (esp. 
when many languages get involved);  I was always perfectly happy with symbols.
 
CYA, baby 
 
The Colorado Brian
 

  
 
From: Nyffenegger, Dave [mailto:dave.nyffeneg...@bhemail.com] 
 Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2015 10:39 AM
 To: Kunde, Brian
 Cc:  EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
 Subject: RE: Warning Label: Disconnect from Mains