[PSES] Review of Signal Hound's new VSG25A vector signal generator

[Ken Wyatt]

Hi All,

I just posted a review of the new $495 VSG25A vector signal generator from 
Signal Hound.

http://www.edn.com/electronics-blogs/the-emc-blog/4439988/Review--Signal-Hound-VSG25A-vector-signal-generator
 


If you missed them, here are another couple recent articles:

GaN technology and the potential for EMI 


Review of the Aaronia BicoLOG 30100X and HyperLOG 7060 EMI antennas 


Cheers, Ken
___

I'm here to help you succeed! Feel free to call or email with any questions 
related to EMC or EMI troubleshooting - at no obligation. I'm always happy to 
help!

Kenneth Wyatt
Wyatt Technical Services LLC
56 Aspen Dr.
Woodland Park, CO 80863

Phone: (719) 310-5418

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Re: [PSES] GFCI Nuisance Tripping

[Brian Oconnell]

Understand what is being said, and it is valid for the input filter before the 
bridge, but some SMPS can have caps on the DC bus or DC return which are 
effected by both the PFC and main converter stuff. This is not always 100Hz 
sinusoidal stuff.

The other problems with many PFC controllers is that they cannot get as close 
to unity at 100V as they can at 240V. So 'noise' current through ground wire 
can be significantly different for same loading conditions at different input 
V. Capacitive coupling from h/s to ground can be significant, but the better 
designs mitigate this so not a dominant effect. Much of the 'ground' noise can 
be stuff that is radiated from the main converter's power loop directly into a 
primary trace or other component that is somehow coupled to ground.

When I become emperor, only flyback converters without PFC will be allowed. 
There will be much noise and we will like it...

Brian

-Original Message-
From: John Woodgate [mailto:j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk] 
Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 2:25 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] GFCI Nuisance Tripping

In message 
, dated Thu, 23 Jul 2015, Brian Oconnell  
writes:

>No. And is dependent on converter topology and operating conditions and 
>whims of the Klingon High Command.

Since the supply current is (nearly) sinusoidal, I suppose that the 
leakage current through the 'hot' Y-cap is sinusoidal, but the current 
due to the capacitance to ground of the switching device's heat sink 
(and maybe other parts) is not sinusoidal and may not be negligible.
-- 
OOO - Own Opinions Only. With best wishes. See www.jmwa.demon.co.uk
When I turn my back on the sun, it's to look for a rainbow
John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK

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Re: [PSES] GFCI Nuisance Tripping

[John Woodgate]

In message 
.com>, dated Thu, 23 Jul 2015, Brian Oconnell  
writes:


No. And is dependent on converter topology and operating conditions and 
whims of the Klingon High Command.


Since the supply current is (nearly) sinusoidal, I suppose that the 
leakage current through the 'hot' Y-cap is sinusoidal, but the current 
due to the capacitance to ground of the switching device's heat sink 
(and maybe other parts) is not sinusoidal and may not be negligible.

--
OOO - Own Opinions Only. With best wishes. See www.jmwa.demon.co.uk
When I turn my back on the sun, it's to look for a rainbow
John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK

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Re: [PSES] GFCI Nuisance Tripping

[Brian Oconnell]

After a little thought, should extend and be less obtuse.

The current through ground line will always have the significant 100Hz or 120Hz 
component as the haversine from the input bridge is what the PFC controller is 
using as the comparator's reference and is what resets the off timer. But 
response of an active PFC circuit is dependent on the dynamic characteristics 
of unit loading. This 'corrective' response can result in very high 
crest-factor waveforms that may not always affect the RMS value of the current, 
but can have peaks with an amplitude that are multiples of the 120Hz stuff. And 
for PFC and or the main converter, 120Hz is not the fundamental.

Most my experience is PFC in CCM, so there are many other facets to PFC not 
being talked about. Also note that each cycle starts when the core is reset, so 
if next cycle is not able to re-start then there is ringing at the PFC FET. 
This is considered acceptable for dynamic response, and should not be a 
dominant noise source for the typical test done at static load. 

Should be noted that much of the radiated noise actually results from the PFC 
diode, and that much of the conducted noise results from the main converter 
power loop.

Brian

-Original Message-
From: Brian Oconnell [mailto:oconne...@tamuracorp.com] 
Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 1:52 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] GFCI Nuisance Tripping

No. And is dependent on converter topology and operating conditions and whims 
of the Klingon High Command.

Brian

-Original Message-
From: Richard Nute [mailto:ri...@ieee.org] 
Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 1:43 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] GFCI Nuisance Tripping

When a PFC (power factor correction) circuit is
used ahead of a SMPS, is the protective conductor
(leakage) current sinusoidal?


Rich

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Re: [PSES] GFCI Nuisance Tripping

[Brian Oconnell]

No. And is dependent on converter topology and operating conditions and whims 
of the Klingon High Command.

Brian

-Original Message-
From: Richard Nute [mailto:ri...@ieee.org] 
Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 1:43 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] GFCI Nuisance Tripping

When a PFC (power factor correction) circuit is
used ahead of a SMPS, is the protective conductor
(leakage) current sinusoidal?


Rich

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Re: [PSES] GFCI Nuisance Tripping

[Richard Nute]

When a PFC (power factor correction) circuit is
used ahead of a SMPS, is the protective conductor
(leakage) current sinusoidal?


Rich

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Re: [PSES] R&TTE OJ listing vs conflicting Reference Standards in EN 301 489-1 v1.9.2

[Dave Heald]

Thanks, all, for the good discussion on this.  I considered everything here
& think I've got a good path forward.

Best Regards,
-David

On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 3:24 AM, John Woodgate  wrote:

> In message <54573abb74734ea78f208b754d51b...@thhste15d1be4.hs20.net>,
> dated Tue, 21 Jul 2015, Charlie Blackham 
> writes:
>
>  That standard it is referencing a standard that is no longer "state of
>> the art" with regard to several sets of limits or frequency ranges. The
>> chair of the ETSI committee is aware of that problem, and proposed I
>> described. The discussion also considered that the purpose of standards is
>> to support Declaration to a Directive, and not certification to the
>> standard itself.
>>
>
> In such a case, where it's the OJ list that is out-of-date, manufacturers
> should indeed consider the latest edition of the referenced standard in the
> EMC assessment, but not put it on the DoC.
>
>>
>> Manufacturers also, of course, have to deal with reality of market
>> surveillance which seems to operate a slightly simplistic "current
>> Harmonised Standard = good / non-current HS = bad" approach.
>>
>
> It's not 'simplistic', it's a legal matter. Your equations do represent
> the *legal* position.
> --
> OOO - Own Opinions Only. With best wishes. See www.jmwa.demon.co.uk
> When I turn my back on the sun, it's to look for a rainbow
> John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK
>
> -
> 
> This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc
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> emc-p...@ieee.org>
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>
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> well-used formats), large files, etc.
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Re: [PSES] Dimmable LEDs

[Richard Nute]

 

http://powerelectronics.com/lighting-systems/dimmi
ng-techniques-led-drivers

 

http://www.ledsmagazine.com/articles/print/volume-
8/issue-6/features/led-lighting-must-work-with-leg
acy-dimming-technologies-magazine.html

 

http://www.st.com/web/en/resource/technical/docume
nt/application_note/CD00043387.pdf

 

http://apps1.eere.energy.gov/buildings/publication
s/pdfs/ssl/2013_gateway_dimming.pdf

 

http://www.nxp.com/documents/leaflet/939775017450.
pdf

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


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Re: [PSES] Dimmable LEDs

[John Woodgate]

In message <00fa01d0c514$9385ed70$ba91c850$@cox.net>, dated Wed, 22 Jul 
2015, Ed Price  writes:


I'm curious how the Cree SMPS manages this, so does anyone have a link 
to an explanation of how a dimmable LED SMPS works or even what the 
circuit looks like?


The technology isn't mature yet. There are many different circuits in 
use, some very poor, e.g. 30 A inrush current pulses. Most circuits are 
not published.

--
OOO - Own Opinions Only. With best wishes. See www.jmwa.demon.co.uk
When I turn my back on the sun, it's to look for a rainbow
John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK

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