Re: [PSES] PSES Symposium 2016 - Compliance 101 Track demo

[Pete Perkins]

Dan et al,

A flamboyant demonstration; not sure that a person needs to
shock his tongue - an organ with lots of sensors built-in.  Seems like
something left over from a horror movie (or real life experience in some
cultures since the introduction of electricity 100 years ago or so).  

There is a lot of good technical information available on
electric shock - starting from the 1930s (Whittaker) thru the 1950s
(especially Dalziel) and more recently (e.g. 1983 & 1986 ES symposiums).
This technical material is summarized in IEC 60479 series of Basic Safety
standards which are to be used by equipment committees.  I have given a
number of electric shock presentations at the IEEE PSES/ISPCE meetings since
the first meeting of this group.  

I have been involved in electric shock demonstrations both
as a subject (see my PSES08 presentation on body impedance calculations) and
as a demonstrator with hundreds of participants over the years.   The demo
allows the participant to feel the startle-reaction current (0.5mArms) and
just short of the letgo-immobilization current (3.5mArms demo) as defined in
the technical standards we commonly deal with; the distributions of current
between these two levels is widespread, as shown in my papers.  

Nute & I have sought permission from the IEEE to give a demo
at the meetings and it was refused because of the liability issues.  The
PSES management committee is familiar with the effort.  

Watching a video is interesting (and, as has been pointed
out, you can watch it on YouTube).  Watching a person get a live shock is
more interesting (hopefully not some prurient interest here).  Participating
in a safe electric shock demo is revealing and qualitative, leaving a
lasting impression on most participants.  

My compliance 101 demo has not used a  video or a demo;
there is a lot more important technical information to present in the short
time allotted.  

If folks want to watch YouTube videos we could set up a
table in the exhibit hall and let them run non-stop.  

C'mon down and I'll give the scoop on electric shock (jra
consenting) including dealing with modern switching supplies and the issues
introduced at the product level which must be measured and remain in
compliance to the long-standing requirements.  

There's more here than meets the eye.  

:>) br, Pete
 
Peter E Perkins, PE
Principal Product Safety Engineer
PO Box 23427
Tigard, ORe  97281-3427

503/452-1201 fone/fax
p.perk...@ieee.org

_ _ _ _ _

Thanks Dan,

Pretty funny guy!!  Not sure if PSES would allow live demos.

Best Regards,

John

John Allen
President
Product Safety Consulting, Inc.
http://www.productsafetyinc.com
630-238-0188

-

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Re: [PSES] PSES Symposium 2016 - Compliance 101 Track demo

[John Allen]

When he was at HP many (about 40 IIRC) years ago, Al Kanode ran some demos
(participated myself, and it was "interesting!) like that - anyone have any
film (before the days of home videos!) of one of those ?

On my side, I helped to design and install the electrical side of an exhibit
at the London Science Museum in 2004/2005 to demonstrate that you can't see
electrical energy but it really does exist. It consisted (briefly!) of a
tall metal column connected to a shock source (a low-power electric fence
energiser with external ballasting to reduce the shock current to a much
lower level than the max in most standards) - people touched it with the
fingers, and when they did they got a slight shock and there was a loud
noise from the associated sound system.

See this video of it for a laugh https://vimeo.com/31445076.

The critical part of the design that I added was the shock circuit was only
between the inner core of the centre section and the fairly closely packed
metal rods surrounding it -  and you could only insert a couple of fingers
at a time, and thus you would get the shock between the fingers on one hand.
OTOH, in the original design (before I got involved!), you got the shock
between the cylinder - which had no centre section at that time - and the
floor, and that, coupled with the use of a much more powerful fence
energizer, meant a MUCH bigger "belt" which no-body in their right mind
would want in a public place like that.

Literally thousands of people (including lots of kids!) played with this
thing - sometimes for protracted periods - and, AFAIK, no-one got even
mildly hurt!

Surely something like that could be demonstrated, with the well-publicised
warning that that the higher the shock current then the "bigger" the effect
would be?

John Allen
W.London, UK

-Original Message-
From: Pete Perkins [mailto:0061f3f32d0c-dmarc-requ...@ieee.org] 
Sent: 02 September 2015 17:12
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] PSES Symposium 2016 - Compliance 101 Track demo

Dan et al,

A flamboyant demonstration; not sure that a person needs to
shock his tongue - an organ with lots of sensors built-in.  Seems like
something left over from a horror movie (or real life experience in some
cultures since the introduction of electricity 100 years ago or so).  

There is a lot of good technical information available on
electric shock - starting from the 1930s (Whittaker) thru the 1950s
(especially Dalziel) and more recently (e.g. 1983 & 1986 ES symposiums).
This technical material is summarized in IEC 60479 series of Basic Safety
standards which are to be used by equipment committees.  I have given a
number of electric shock presentations at the IEEE PSES/ISPCE meetings since
the first meeting of this group.  

I have been involved in electric shock demonstrations both
as a subject (see my PSES08 presentation on body impedance calculations) and
as a demonstrator with hundreds of participants over the years.   The demo
allows the participant to feel the startle-reaction current (0.5mArms) and
just short of the letgo-immobilization current (3.5mArms demo) as defined in
the technical standards we commonly deal with; the distributions of current
between these two levels is widespread, as shown in my papers.  

Nute & I have sought permission from the IEEE to give a demo
at the meetings and it was refused because of the liability issues.  The
PSES management committee is familiar with the effort.  

Watching a video is interesting (and, as has been pointed
out, you can watch it on YouTube).  Watching a person get a live shock is
more interesting (hopefully not some prurient interest here).  Participating
in a safe electric shock demo is revealing and qualitative, leaving a
lasting impression on most participants.  

My compliance 101 demo has not used a  video or a demo;
there is a lot more important technical information to present in the short
time allotted.  

If folks want to watch YouTube videos we could set up a
table in the exhibit hall and let them run non-stop.  

C'mon down and I'll give the scoop on electric shock (jra
consenting) including dealing with modern switching supplies and the issues
introduced at the product level which must be measured and remain in
compliance to the long-standing requirements.  

There's more here than meets the eye.  

:>) br, Pete
 
Peter E Perkins, PE
Principal Product Safety Engineer
PO Box 23427
Tigard, ORe  97281-3427

503/452-1201 fone/fax
p.perk...@ieee.org

_ _ _ _ _

Thanks Dan,

Pretty funny guy!!  Not sure if PSES would allow live demos.

Best Regards,

John

John Allen
President
Product Safety Consulting, Inc.
http://www.productsafetyinc.com
630-238-0188

-

This message is from the IEEE