Re: [PSES] EU Regs on live work

[Nick Williams]

Doug,

This would be covered by employer occupational safety legislation which remains 
a Member State level competence (albeit with a minimum level of performance 
mandated by directives issued under article 153 of the TFEU). 

In the UK, the relevant Regulations are the Electricity at Work Regulations 
1989. It should be noted that these apply to operations on all electrical 
installations in the work place, not just those within the scope of the LVD. 
Live working is strongly discouraged although clearly it cannot be outlawed 
entirely. 

You can find good guidance on the Regulations on the HSE website 
www.hse.gov.uk. You can also expect all other member states to have similar 
requirements. 

More practically, it should be noted that the requirements for protection 
against direct and indirect contact with live parts contained within EN 60204-1 
are not really consistent with the accepted practice for working on energised 
cabinets which is why in reality finger protection of live components within 
cabinets is commonly required even though this is not an explicit part of the 
standard. 

Regards

Nick. 




> On 28 Sep 2015, at 16:20, Douglas Nix  wrote:
> 
> I’d like to verify the regulations relating to live work on electrical 
> control panels in the EU. Is it permitted? If yes, what are the limits? A 
> reference to the applicable regulations would be helpful. I’m expecting it’s 
> covered in the PUWER regs, but would like confirmation from someone who knows.
> 
> Doug Nix
> d...@ieee.org
> 

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Re: [PSES] EU Regs on live work

[John_e_allen]

Doug

Each country has its own regs - PUWER is just only for the UK.

John Allen
W.London, UK

Sent from my Xperia™ tablet

 Douglas Nix wrote 

>I’d like to verify the regulations relating to live work on electrical control 
>panels in the EU. Is it permitted? If yes, what are the limits? A reference to 
>the applicable regulations would be helpful. I’m expecting it’s covered in the 
>PUWER regs, but would like confirmation from someone who knows.
>
>Doug Nix
>d...@ieee.org
>
>-
>
>This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
>discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
>
>
>All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
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>
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>formats), large files, etc.
>
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>unsubscribe)
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>
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[PSES] Recycle mark on plastic bags/parts

[Scott Xe]

Most of plastic bags/parts have the recycle mark on them.  Do they require by 
any regulation?

Thanks and regards,

Scott

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[PSES] EU Regs on live work

[Douglas Nix]

I’d like to verify the regulations relating to live work on electrical control 
panels in the EU. Is it permitted? If yes, what are the limits? A reference to 
the applicable regulations would be helpful. I’m expecting it’s covered in the 
PUWER regs, but would like confirmation from someone who knows.

Doug Nix
d...@ieee.org

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Re: [PSES] EMC Chamber Filter Issue

[Robert Dunkerley]

Hi,

The interference is seen on the lcd monitors. The chamber lights are either 
halogen or sodium (they take a minute to ‘warm up’ so maybe sodium).

If I remove the RF cables connected to the Chamber, the interference 
disappears. These RF cables were connected to a receiver, which in turn, was 
connected to the computer.

So perhaps the filter is putting noise/interference onto the chamber walls, 
which is then going through the screen of the RF cable into the receiver, then 
onto the PE of the mains, which would be picked up by all the other computers 
running off the same mains cct?

The filter is 10+years old, so perhaps a cap has gone inside?

Thanks,

Rob.

From: Kunde, Brian [mailto:brian_ku...@lecotc.com]
Sent: 28 September 2015 15:07
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] EMC Chamber Filter Issue

Rob,

RF Filters used on power to a chamber are usually very broadband kick butt 
filters. These filters can have quite a bit of leakage current and controlling 
the path of this current is important.

RF Filters are passive, to just applying power to them should not generate any 
interference other than line frequency return currents.

BTW, what kind of lights do you use in your chamber?

What type of monitors are being interfered with? Are they old CRT types where 
they are seeing a magnetic field causing the display to move or are they more 
modern LCD monitors?  What does the “interference” look like or has revealed 
itself?

The Other Brian

From: Robert Dunkerley [mailto:robert.dunker...@s-a-m.com]
Sent: Monday, September 28, 2015 8:46 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] EMC Chamber Filter Issue

Hi,

Has anyone ever had problems with EMI filters supplying EMC chambers before?

When mains is applied to the filter for the chamber lights, there is 
interference seen on the computer monitors outside the chamber. This happens 
even if the lights are turned off in the chamber, but power supplied to the 
filter. Looks like the noise is going down the mains cable into the 
computers/monitors.

The filter may have degraded, but I though they tend to just go completely?

Thanks,

Rob.







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Re: [PSES] EMC Chamber Filter Issue

[Kunde, Brian]

Rob,

RF Filters used on power to a chamber are usually very broadband kick butt 
filters. These filters can have quite a bit of leakage current and controlling 
the path of this current is important.

RF Filters are passive, to just applying power to them should not generate any 
interference other than line frequency return currents.

BTW, what kind of lights do you use in your chamber?

What type of monitors are being interfered with? Are they old CRT types where 
they are seeing a magnetic field causing the display to move or are they more 
modern LCD monitors?  What does the “interference” look like or has revealed 
itself?

The Other Brian

From: Robert Dunkerley [mailto:robert.dunker...@s-a-m.com]
Sent: Monday, September 28, 2015 8:46 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] EMC Chamber Filter Issue

Hi,

Has anyone ever had problems with EMI filters supplying EMC chambers before?

When mains is applied to the filter for the chamber lights, there is 
interference seen on the computer monitors outside the chamber. This happens 
even if the lights are turned off in the chamber, but power supplied to the 
filter. Looks like the noise is going down the mains cable into the 
computers/monitors.

The filter may have degraded, but I though they tend to just go completely?

Thanks,

Rob.







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Re: [PSES] EMC Chamber Filter Issue

[Ken Wyatt]

Sounds more like a “ground loop” issue to me. Ideally, shielded rooms should be 
isolated from earth and then single-point grounded to earth using a ground rod. 
It sounds to me as if there may be multiple grounds, possibly via multiple AC 
line circuits. Are the AC line circuits to the monitors different from the 
circuit supplying the chamber, but using the same earth connection to the 
chamber wall? I suspect there’s appreciable current running through the chamber 
walls (common-impedance coupling).

Ken

___

I'm here to help you succeed! Feel free to call or email with any questions 
related to EMC or EMI troubleshooting - at no obligation. I'm always happy to 
help!

Kenneth Wyatt
Wyatt Technical Services LLC
56 Aspen Dr.
Woodland Park, CO 80863

Phone: (719) 310-5418

Email Me!  | Web Site 
 | Blog 
The EMC Blog (EDN) 
Subscribe to Newsletter 
Connect with me on LinkedIn 
> On Sep 28, 2015, at 6:45 AM, Robert Dunkerley  
> wrote:
> 
> Hi,
>  
> Has anyone ever had problems with EMI filters supplying EMC chambers before?
>  
> When mains is applied to the filter for the chamber lights, there is 
> interference seen on the computer monitors outside the chamber. This happens 
> even if the lights are turned off in the chamber, but power supplied to the 
> filter. Looks like the noise is going down the mains cable into the 
> computers/monitors.
>  
> The filter may have degraded, but I though they tend to just go completely?
>  
> Thanks,
>  
> Rob.
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
> 
> 
> This email has been scanned for email related threats and delivered safely by 
> Mimecast.
> For more information please visit http://www.mimecast.com 
> 
> -
> 
> This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
> discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
> mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>>
> 
> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: 
> http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html 
> 
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> http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ 
>  can be used for graphics (in 
> well-used formats), large files, etc.
> 
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> unsubscribe) 
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> 
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> 
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> David Heald mailto:dhe...@gmail.com>>
> 


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[PSES] EMC Chamber Filter Issue

[Robert Dunkerley]

Hi,

Has anyone ever had problems with EMI filters supplying EMC chambers before?

When mains is applied to the filter for the chamber lights, there is 
interference seen on the computer monitors outside the chamber. This happens 
even if the lights are turned off in the chamber, but power supplied to the 
filter. Looks like the noise is going down the mains cable into the 
computers/monitors.

The filter may have degraded, but I though they tend to just go completely?

Thanks,

Rob.
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Re: [PSES] Low Power exemption for ATEX / IECEx

[Helge Knudsen]

Maybe a clarification sheet for IEC 60079-15 is needed.

 

Best regards

 

Helge Knudsen

Denmark

 

From: John Cochran [mailto:jcoch...@strongarm.com] 
Sent: 28. september 2015 03:31
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] Low Power exemption for ATEX / IECEx

 

In IEC 60079-15 Clause 13, Low power device or components are exempt from
evaluation of creepage and clearance, as defined in Clause 6.4 of the
standard.  I designed a computer system which uses an i7 quad-core CPU
module (COMe).  The problem is the module draws 37W of power, and Note 1 in
Clause 13 states Low power is typically considered 20W or less.  The word
typically bothers me, but also the fact some competitors have gotten their
systems certified with a 45W i7 quad-core CPU.  The notified body we are
using is insisting that our CPU cannot be approved.  Does anyone in the
group have experience with certifying a higher wattage CPU module for
international hazardous locations?

 

Thanks,

John Cochran

STRONGARM Designs

 

Ingen virus fundet i denne meddelelse.
Kontrolleret af AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2015.0.6140 / Virusdatabase: 4419/10713 - Udgivelsesdato:
27-09-2015

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