Re: [PSES] Power Supply Safety approval

[Richard Nute]

> If it's not multimedia, why was 60065 applied?

Mr. McBurney "submitted a product for CB
certification to IEC/EN/UL 60065."


Rich

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Re: [PSES] Power Supply Safety approval

[John Woodgate]

If it's not multimedia, why was 60065 applied? 

With best wishes DESIGN IT IN! OOO - Own Opinions Only
www.jmwa.demon.co.uk J M Woodgate and Associates Rayleigh England


-Original Message-
From: Richard Nute [mailto:ri...@ieee.org] 
Sent: Wednesday, June 15, 2016 9:03 PM
To: 'John Woodgate' ; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: RE: [PSES] Power Supply Safety approval


> There are differences, but I suppose citing
Guide 112
> would deal with that.

I don't believe that Guide 112 applies as this equipment was not designated
"multimedia"
equipment.

If it was multimedia, Clause 3 of 60065 would apply, which references 4.2
and 4.3 of 60065 which is the meat of the standard.  The cert house would
test the power supply to many of the 60065 requirements.


Rich

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Re: [PSES] Power Supply Safety approval

[Richard Nute]

> There are differences, but I suppose citing
Guide 112
> would deal with that.

I don't believe that Guide 112 applies as this
equipment was not designated "multimedia"
equipment.

If it was multimedia, Clause 3 of 60065 would
apply, which references 4.2 and 4.3 of 60065 which
is the meat of the standard.  The cert house would
test the power supply to many of the 60065
requirements.


Rich

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Re: [PSES] Power Supply Safety approval

[Richard Nute]

I submitted the CB documentation for the power
supply along with the product to the safety
testing agency.

I am surprised that the testing agency decided to
dismantle the power supply and thoroughly evaluate
it even though it is already pre-approved.

 

While the power supply meets 60950 requirements,
the (agnostic) certification house doesn't know
that it also meets 60065 requirements, therefore
they tested it to 60065 requirements.  And, they
made money doing so.  

 

 

Rich 

 

 


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[PSES] Job opening: Senior Compliance Engineer based in Santa Cruz, California

[Charlie Blackham]

All

Job posting on behalf of a non-member.

Regards
Charlie

Plantronics is wishing to hire a Senior Compliance Engineer based in Santa 
Cruz, California.  A link to the job specification is below.

https://www.linkedin.com/jobs/view/132315429

https://career4.successfactors.com/career?career_ns=job_listing&company=Plantronics&navBarLevel=JOB_SEARCH&rcm_site_locale=en_US&career_job_req_id=28846&selected_lang=en_US&jobAlertController_jobAlertId=&jobAlertController_jobAlertName=&_s.crb=xsMjVaWK6ImvFfSVpWDXZt5kXWE%3D

Many thanks
Mark

Mark Lawson  BSc (Hons), BA (Hons)
Global Compliance Manager
Plantronics Ltd. Interface Business Park, Binknoll Lane,
Royal Wootton Bassett, Wiltshire. SN4 8QQ - United Kingdom
Tel:  +44 (0) 1793 842416
Email mark.law...@plantronics.com


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Re: [PSES] Power Supply Safety approval

[Brian O'Connell]

Responses to various thread posts below. Assumption is that the wall wart is 
not certified as a component, but as end-use item, and is Class II construction.

1. " A example: the 60950 power supply does not necessarily meet insulation 
requirements (among other requirements) of the 60065."

Class II construction per latest edition of IEC60950-1 meets  IEC60065 8th ed, 
but may be differences in di-electric withstand requirements. Clause 8 
indicates some special stuff for transformer testing of multi-layer sheet 
stuff, but is moot because both 60950-1 and 60065 both point to IEC61558-1, so 
test and construction requirements essentially same for both standards. For 
North America, these power supplies should have UL1310/CSA No.223 certification 
where LPS rating required, which meets or exceeds IEC60065 construction 
requirements. Class I construction is not typical for 'walwart' p/s, but 
UL60065, based on 8th ed, allow BI where ground bound properly tested and 
constructed.

2. "The 60950 compatible PSU normally relies on Basic Insulation and Protective 
Earthing of the secondary voltage, where your product may have a different 
configuration."

8th edition allows secondary reference to P.E. In any case, this construction 
concern would only be applicable to a component p/s that is built into the 
end-use equipment.

3. " CB documentation does not often list the insulation properties 
Basic/Double/Reinforced. This may have been a reason for further investigation."

Have never seen an IEC60950-1 power supply CBTR that did not define and 
describe the EIS and other isolative components. There are specific line items 
in TRF where this information is required.

4. "Presumably, they were not confident that what was in the sample was the 
same as what was in the CB-certificated sample. Unfortunately, that is very 
often the case."

Inexorably correct. Ya know, due diligence and all of that rot. Would be loath 
to do business with a CBTL that did not require a sample to fondle and gaze at.

5. ".. submitted to IEC 62368-1 instead, pointing to the section in 4.1.1 that 
states that components that comply with IEC 60950-1 or IEC 60065 are 
acceptable.."

Applicable to component p/s that is built into your box. N/A for wal-wart 
without further test unless output rated LPS and/or Class 2.

6. The Klingon national version (K60065-0.1) disallows other than functional 
insulation.

Brian

From: McBurney, Ian [mailto:ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, June 15, 2016 4:29 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] Power Supply Safety approval

Dear colleagues.

I have submitted a product for CB certification to IEC/EN/UL 60065.
The product is powered from a 12V dc wall wart purchased from an external 
supplier. The power supply is fully CB approved to IEC/EN/UL 60950 and operated 
well within its ratings.
I submitted the CB documentation for the power supply along with the product to 
the safety testing agency.
I am surprised that the testing agency decided to dismantle the power supply 
and thoroughly evaluate it even though it is already pre-approved.
Is this usual and if so why bother with a pre-approved power supply if you are 
going to be paying for it to be tested along with your product?

Your knowledge and experience would be appreciated.

Many thanks in advance.

Ian McBurney
Design & Compliance Engineer.

Allen & Heath Ltd.
Kernick Industrial Estate,
Penryn, Cornwall. TR10 9LU. UK
T: 01326 372070
E: ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com

-

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Re: [PSES] Power Supply Safety approval

[Scott Aldous]

It may be too late for this now, but you could have submitted to IEC
62368-1 instead, pointing to the section in 4.1.1 that states that
components that comply with IEC 60950-1 or IEC 60065 are acceptable without
further evaluation other than to give consideration to the appropriate use
of the component or sub-assembly in the end-product.

On Wed, Jun 15, 2016 at 5:30 AM, John Woodgate 
wrote:

> There are differences, but I suppose citing Guide 112 would deal with that.
>
> With best wishes DESIGN IT IN! OOO – Own Opinions Only
> www.jmwa.demon.co.uk J M Woodgate and Associates Rayleigh England
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: ce-test, qualified testing bv - Gert Gremmen
> [mailto:g.grem...@cetest.nl]
> Sent: Wednesday, June 15, 2016 12:47 PM
> To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
> Subject: Re: [PSES] Power Supply Safety approval
>
> I think the answer to your question is the difference in product standards
> between your product and the power supply.
> A example: the 60950 power supply does not necessarily meet insulation
> requirements (among other requirements) of the 60065.
> The 60950 compatible PSU normally relies on Basic Insulation and Protective
> Earthing of the secondary voltage, where your product may have a different
> configuration.
> CB documentation does not often list the insulation properties
> Basic/Double/Reinforced. This may have been a reason for further
> investigation.
>
> If all this information seems available, ask them for the exact reason of
> investigation, if other than boosting turnover.
>
> Regards,
>
> Ing. Gert Gremmen
> Approvals manager
>
> 
> 
>
>
> + ce marking of electrical/electronic equipment Independent Consultancy
> + Services Compliance Testing and Design for CE marking
>  according to EC-directives:
> - Electro Magnetic Compatibility 2004/108/EC
> - Electrical Safety 2006/95/EC
> - Medical Devices 93/42/EC
> - Radio & Telecommunication Terminal Equipment 99/5/EC
> + Improvement of Product Quality and Reliability testing Education
>
> Web:www.cetest.nl (English)
> Phone :  +31 10 415 24 26
> ---
> This e-mail and any attachments thereto may contain information that is
> confidential and/or protected by intellectual property rights and are
> intended for the sole use of the recipient(s) named above.
> Any use of the information contained herein (including, but not limited to,
> total or partial reproduction, communication or distribution in any form)
> by
> persons other than the designated
> recipient(s) is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error,
> please notify the sender either by telephone or by e-mail and delete the
> material from any computer.
> Thank you for your co-operation.
>
> From: McBurney, Ian [mailto:ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com]
> Sent: Wednesday 15 June 2016 13:29
> To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
> Subject: [PSES] Power Supply Safety approval
>
> Dear colleagues.
>
> I have submitted a product for CB certification to IEC/EN/UL 60065.
> The product is powered from a 12V dc wall wart purchased from an external
> supplier. The power supply is fully CB approved to IEC/EN/UL 60950 and
> operated well within its ratings.
> I submitted the CB documentation for the power supply along with the
> product
> to the safety testing agency.
> I am surprised that the testing agency decided to dismantle the power
> supply
> and thoroughly evaluate it even though it is already pre-approved.
> Is this usual and if so why bother with a pre-approved power supply if you
> are going to be paying for it to be tested along with your product?
>
> Your knowledge and experience would be appreciated.
>
> Many thanks in advance.
>
> Ian McBurney
> Design & Compliance Engineer.
>
> Allen & Heath Ltd.
> Kernick Industrial Estate,
> Penryn, Cornwall. TR10 9LU. UK
> T: 01326 372070
> E: ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com
>
>
> Allen & Heath Ltd is a registered business in England and Wales, Company
> number: 4163451. Any views expressed in this email are those of the
> individual and not necessarily those of the company.
> -
> 
> This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc
> discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to
>  All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on
> the
> web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html
> Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at
> http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in
> well-used formats), large files, etc.
> Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/
> Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to
> unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html
> For help, send mail to the list administrators:
> Scott Douglas 
> Mike Cantwell 
> For

Re: [PSES] Power Supply Safety approval

[John Woodgate]

There are differences, but I suppose citing Guide 112 would deal with that.

With best wishes DESIGN IT IN! OOO – Own Opinions Only
www.jmwa.demon.co.uk J M Woodgate and Associates Rayleigh England


-Original Message-
From: ce-test, qualified testing bv - Gert Gremmen
[mailto:g.grem...@cetest.nl] 
Sent: Wednesday, June 15, 2016 12:47 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Power Supply Safety approval

I think the answer to your question is the difference in product standards
between your product and the power supply. 
A example: the 60950 power supply does not necessarily meet insulation
requirements (among other requirements) of the 60065.
The 60950 compatible PSU normally relies on Basic Insulation and Protective
Earthing of the secondary voltage, where your product may have a different
configuration.
CB documentation does not often list the insulation properties
Basic/Double/Reinforced. This may have been a reason for further
investigation.

If all this information seems available, ask them for the exact reason of
investigation, if other than boosting turnover.

Regards,

Ing. Gert Gremmen
Approvals manager




+ ce marking of electrical/electronic equipment Independent Consultancy 
+ Services Compliance Testing and Design for CE marking
 according to EC-directives:
    - Electro Magnetic Compatibility 2004/108/EC
    - Electrical Safety 2006/95/EC
    - Medical Devices 93/42/EC
    - Radio & Telecommunication Terminal Equipment 99/5/EC
+ Improvement of Product Quality and Reliability testing Education

Web:    www.cetest.nl (English) 
Phone :  +31 10 415 24 26
---
This e-mail and any attachments thereto may contain information that is
confidential and/or protected by intellectual property rights and are
intended for the sole use of the recipient(s) named above. 
Any use of the information contained herein (including, but not limited to,
total or partial reproduction, communication or distribution in any form) by
persons other than the designated
recipient(s) is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error,
please notify the sender either by telephone or by e-mail and delete the
material from any computer. 
Thank you for your co-operation.

From: McBurney, Ian [mailto:ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com]
Sent: Wednesday 15 June 2016 13:29
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] Power Supply Safety approval

Dear colleagues.

I have submitted a product for CB certification to IEC/EN/UL 60065.
The product is powered from a 12V dc wall wart purchased from an external
supplier. The power supply is fully CB approved to IEC/EN/UL 60950 and
operated well within its ratings.
I submitted the CB documentation for the power supply along with the product
to the safety testing agency.
I am surprised that the testing agency decided to dismantle the power supply
and thoroughly evaluate it even though it is already pre-approved.
Is this usual and if so why bother with a pre-approved power supply if you
are going to be paying for it to be tested along with your product?

Your knowledge and experience would be appreciated.

Many thanks in advance.

Ian McBurney
Design & Compliance Engineer.

Allen & Heath Ltd.
Kernick Industrial Estate,
Penryn, Cornwall. TR10 9LU. UK
T: 01326 372070
E: ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com


Allen & Heath Ltd is a registered business in England and Wales, Company
number: 4163451. Any views expressed in this email are those of the
individual and not necessarily those of the company. 
-

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discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to
 All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the
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Instr

Re: [PSES] Power Supply Safety approval

[John Woodgate]

Did you ask why they did that? Presumably, they were not confident that what
was in the sample was the same as what was in the CB-certificated sample.
Unfortunately, that is very often the case.
 
With best wishes DESIGN IT IN! OOO - Own Opinions Only
  www.jmwa.demon.co.uk J M Woodgate and
Associates Rayleigh England
 
From: McBurney, Ian [mailto:ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, June 15, 2016 12:29 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] Power Supply Safety approval
 
Dear colleagues.
 
I have submitted a product for CB certification to IEC/EN/UL 60065.
The product is powered from a 12V dc wall wart purchased from an external
supplier. The power supply is fully CB approved to IEC/EN/UL 60950 and
operated well within its ratings.
I submitted the CB documentation for the power supply along with the product
to the safety testing agency.
I am surprised that the testing agency decided to dismantle the power supply
and thoroughly evaluate it even though it is already pre-approved.
Is this usual and if so why bother with a pre-approved power supply if you
are going to be paying for it to be tested along with your product?
 
Your knowledge and experience would be appreciated.
 
Many thanks in advance.
 
Ian McBurney
Design & Compliance Engineer.
 
Allen & Heath Ltd.
Kernick Industrial Estate,
Penryn, Cornwall. TR10 9LU. UK
T: 01326 372070
E: ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com  
 
 
Allen & Heath Ltd is a registered business in England and Wales, Company
number: 4163451. Any views expressed in this email are those of the
individual and not necessarily those of the company. 
-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc
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mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org> >
All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html
Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in
well-used formats), large files, etc.
Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to
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List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html 
For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas mailto:sdoug...@ieee.org> >
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All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
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David Heald: 

Re: [PSES] Power Supply Safety approval

[ce-test, qualified testing bv - Gert Gremmen]

I think the answer to your question is the difference in product standards
between your product and the power supply. 
A example: the 60950 power supply does not necessarily meet
insulation requirements (among other requirements) of the 60065.
The 60950 compatible PSU normally relies on Basic Insulation and Protective 
Earthing of the secondary voltage, where your product may have a different 
configuration.
CB documentation does not often list the insulation properties 
Basic/Double/Reinforced. This may have been a reason for further investigation.

If all this information seems available, ask them for the exact reason of 
investigation, if other than boosting turnover.

Regards,

Ing. Gert Gremmen
Approvals manager



+ ce marking of electrical/electronic equipment
+ Independent Consultancy Services
+ Compliance Testing and Design for CE marking
 according to EC-directives:
    - Electro Magnetic Compatibility 2004/108/EC
    - Electrical Safety 2006/95/EC
    - Medical Devices 93/42/EC
    - Radio & Telecommunication Terminal Equipment 99/5/EC
+ Improvement of Product Quality and Reliability testing
+ Education

Web:    www.cetest.nl (English) 
Phone :  +31 10 415 24 26
---
This e-mail and any attachments thereto may contain information 
that is confidential and/or protected by intellectual property rights 
and are intended for the sole use of the recipient(s) named above. 
Any use of the information contained herein (including, but not 
limited to, total or partial reproduction, communication or 
distribution in any form) by persons other than the designated 
recipient(s) is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, 
please notify the sender either by telephone or by e-mail and 
delete the material from any computer. 
Thank you for your co-operation.

From: McBurney, Ian [mailto:ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com] 
Sent: Wednesday 15 June 2016 13:29
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] Power Supply Safety approval

Dear colleagues.

I have submitted a product for CB certification to IEC/EN/UL 60065.
The product is powered from a 12V dc wall wart purchased from an external 
supplier. The power supply is fully CB approved to IEC/EN/UL 60950 and operated 
well within its ratings.
I submitted the CB documentation for the power supply along with the product to 
the safety testing agency.
I am surprised that the testing agency decided to dismantle the power supply 
and thoroughly evaluate it even though it is already pre-approved.
Is this usual and if so why bother with a pre-approved power supply if you are 
going to be paying for it to be tested along with your product?

Your knowledge and experience would be appreciated.

Many thanks in advance.

Ian McBurney
Design & Compliance Engineer.

Allen & Heath Ltd.
Kernick Industrial Estate,
Penryn, Cornwall. TR10 9LU. UK
T: 01326 372070
E: ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com


Allen & Heath Ltd is a registered business in England and Wales, Company 
number: 4163451. Any views expressed in this email are those of the individual 
and not necessarily those of the company. 
-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 

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This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 


All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
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Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
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Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
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List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
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For policy questions, send mail to:
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David Heald: 

[PSES] Power Supply Safety approval

[McBurney, Ian]

Dear colleagues.

I have submitted a product for CB certification to IEC/EN/UL 60065.
The product is powered from a 12V dc wall wart purchased from an external 
supplier. The power supply is fully CB approved to IEC/EN/UL 60950 and operated 
well within its ratings.
I submitted the CB documentation for the power supply along with the product to 
the safety testing agency.
I am surprised that the testing agency decided to dismantle the power supply 
and thoroughly evaluate it even though it is already pre-approved.
Is this usual and if so why bother with a pre-approved power supply if you are 
going to be paying for it to be tested along with your product?

Your knowledge and experience would be appreciated.

Many thanks in advance.

Ian McBurney
Design & Compliance Engineer.

Allen & Heath Ltd.
Kernick Industrial Estate,
Penryn, Cornwall. TR10 9LU. UK
T: 01326 372070
E: ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com


Allen & Heath Ltd is a registered business in England and Wales, Company 
number: 4163451. Any views expressed in this email are those of the individual 
and not necessarily those of the company.

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This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
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formats), large files, etc.

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