Re: [PSES] Current measurement

[Brian O'Connell]

Following opinions are mine alone, and were heavily influenced by my lunch-time 
burrito.

Looked at one about 10 years past and decided the design was, in my opinion, 
'marginal' per scoped safety standards; but have not looked at any recent 
product versions. Not accurate for high crest-factor stuff, and some inductive 
loads gave it temporary insanity. Readings were usable and reasonable over a  
limited temperature range (probably because of the current shunt's tempco) and 
for specific load types.

Many comments floating around the internet on this product, so there is 
probably a decent technical write-up available.

Brian


From: alfred1520list [mailto:alfred1520l...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 2:34 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Current measurement

While on the subject, any one familiar with the Kill A Watt meter? This listing 
sells for US$26 and free shipping: 

https://www.amazon.com/P3-International-P4460-Electricity-Monitor/dp/B000RGF29Q 

I swapped out the 2 mOhm current sensing resistor with a 0.2 ohm resistor (and 
of course greatly limiting the current capability) so I can measure standby 
power down to 10 mW. I did test with a 7 W incandescent light bulb and it 
reported reasonable readings. I tested are few phone chargers with nothing 
plugged and they idle at less than 50 mW. (But I don't know if I trust the 
figure down to decimal point:) 

It could be a really inexpensive way to get a reasonable (but not certification 
grade) power measurements. 

Best Regards, 
Alfred 



On February 12, 2018 1:36:10 PM PST, Brian O'Connell  
wrote:
Will admit to having done this stuff with using microcontrollers and discrete 
sequential data channels and of sufficient sampling speed, but am subject to 
frequent bouts of idiocy. And this was for process control, and thus not a Type 
Test. Also, note that there is a difference in technique and equipment between 
power loggers and an analytical instrument.

Best done with an instrument intended for this measurement; that is 'power 
analyzers'. Typically found on shelves at Keysite, Tektronix (nee Voltech), 
Ametek, Chroma,  etc. And many Tek and keysite DSOs have a 'plug-in' for doing 
power measurements. All of this instrument-grade stuff can easily handle 
external sensors.


Brian

-Original Message-
From: Amund Westin [mailto:am...@westin-emission.no] 
Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 1:05 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] Current measurement

If you want to calculate t!
 he
consumed power (W) in a 1-phase AC circuit, you
can use a current clamp-on device to measure the current in one lead/wire
and multiply with the applied voltage.
But with such a current clamp on device, to we measure the apparent power
(VA) or the real power (W)?

Best regards
Amund

Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

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Re: [PSES] Current measurement

[Jon Keeble]

Shameless plug follows: check out the "Auditor": DIN rail, 6 channels,
three phases, real-time over WiFi or 3G, highly configurable, Class 1,
UL61010, etc. around US$200 includes CTs.

Jon Keeble
wattwatchers.com.au

On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 8:36 AM, Brian O'Connell
 wrote:
> Will admit to having done this stuff with using microcontrollers and discrete 
> sequential data channels and of sufficient sampling speed, but am subject to 
> frequent bouts of idiocy. And this was for process control, and thus not a 
> Type Test. Also, note that there is a difference in technique and equipment 
> between power loggers and an analytical instrument.
>
> Best done with an instrument intended for this measurement; that is 'power 
> analyzers'. Typically found on shelves at Keysite, Tektronix (nee Voltech), 
> Ametek, Chroma,  etc. And many Tek and keysite DSOs have a 'plug-in' for 
> doing power measurements. All of this instrument-grade stuff can easily 
> handle external sensors.
>
>
> Brian
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Amund Westin [mailto:am...@westin-emission.no]
> Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 1:05 PM
> To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
> Subject: [PSES] Current measurement
>
> If you want to calculate the consumed power (W) in a 1-phase AC circuit, you
> can use a current clamp-on device to measure the current in one lead/wire
> and multiply with the applied voltage.
> But with such a current clamp on device, to we measure the apparent power
> (VA) or the real power (W)?
>
> Best regards
> Amund
>
> -
> 
> This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
> discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
> 
>
> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
> http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html
>
> Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
> http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
> formats), large files, etc.
>
> Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
> Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to 
> unsubscribe)
> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html
>
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> Mike Cantwell 
>
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-- 
Jon Keeble
CTO

m: 0407 842 840
e:  j...@wattwatchers.com.au
skype:  jkeeble

wattwatchers.com.au

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Re: [PSES] FCC 433 MHz

[Schmidt, Mark]

Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone
 Original message 
From: Michael Derby 
Date: 02/09/2018 4:54 PM (GMT-05:00)
To: "Schmidt, Mark" , EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: RE: [PSES] FCC 433 MHz

 Original message 
From: Michael Derby 
Date: 02/09/2018 4:54 PM (GMT-05:00)
To: "Schmidt, Mark" , EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: RE: [PSES] FCC 433 MHz

It really depends on those “commercial devices” you mean.

The most common use of 433 MHz that I see, is simple little remote control 
devices; certified for momentary operation under FCC 15.231.

Michael.


From: Schmidt, Mark [mailto:markschm...@xrite.com]
Sent: 09 February 2018 14:36
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] FCC 433 MHz

Hello Group,

Can anyone tell me if 433 MHz is a restricted operating frequency for 
commercial devices per the FCC? Thank you.

Best Regards,
Mark Schmidt
Please be advised that this email may contain confidential information. If you 
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provided that the foregoing does not invalidate the binding effect of any 
digital or other electronic reproduction of a manual signature that is included 
in any attachment.
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For policy 

Re: [PSES] Current measurement

[alfred1520list]

While on the subject, any one familiar with the Kill A Watt meter? This listing 
sells for US$26 and free shipping:

https://www.amazon.com/P3-International-P4460-Electricity-Monitor/dp/B000RGF29Q

I swapped out the 2 mOhm current sensing resistor with a 0.2 ohm resistor (and 
of course greatly limiting the current capability) so I can measure standby 
power down to 10 mW. I did test with a 7 W incandescent light bulb and it 
reported reasonable readings. I tested are few phone chargers with nothing 
plugged and they idle at less than 50 mW. (But I don't know if I trust the 
figure down to decimal point:)

It could be a really inexpensive way to get a reasonable (but not certification 
grade) power measurements.

Best Regards,
Alfred




On February 12, 2018 1:36:10 PM PST, Brian O'Connell  
wrote:
>Will admit to having done this stuff with using microcontrollers and
>discrete sequential data channels and of sufficient sampling speed, but
>am subject to frequent bouts of idiocy. And this was for process
>control, and thus not a Type Test. Also, note that there is a
>difference in technique and equipment between power loggers and an
>analytical instrument.
>
>Best done with an instrument intended for this measurement; that is
>'power analyzers'. Typically found on shelves at Keysite, Tektronix
>(nee Voltech), Ametek, Chroma,  etc. And many Tek and keysite DSOs have
>a 'plug-in' for doing power measurements. All of this instrument-grade
>stuff can easily handle external sensors.
>
>
>Brian
>
>-Original Message-
>From: Amund Westin [mailto:am...@westin-emission.no] 
>Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 1:05 PM
>To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
>Subject: [PSES] Current measurement
>
>If you want to calculate the consumed power (W) in a 1-phase AC
>circuit, you
>can use a current clamp-on device to measure the current in one
>lead/wire
>and multiply with the applied voltage.
>But with such a current clamp on device, to we measure the apparent
>power
>(VA) or the real power (W)?
>
>Best regards
>Amund
>
>-
>
>This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society
>emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your
>e-mail to 
>
>All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
>http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html
>
>Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site
>at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in
>well-used formats), large files, etc.
>
>Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
>Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to
>unsubscribe)
>List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html
>
>For help, send mail to the list administrators:
>Scott Douglas 
>Mike Cantwell 
>
>For policy questions, send mail to:
>Jim Bacher:  
>David Heald: 

-- 
Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

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Re: [PSES] Current measurement

[Brian O'Connell]

Will admit to having done this stuff with using microcontrollers and discrete 
sequential data channels and of sufficient sampling speed, but am subject to 
frequent bouts of idiocy. And this was for process control, and thus not a Type 
Test. Also, note that there is a difference in technique and equipment between 
power loggers and an analytical instrument.

Best done with an instrument intended for this measurement; that is 'power 
analyzers'. Typically found on shelves at Keysite, Tektronix (nee Voltech), 
Ametek, Chroma,  etc. And many Tek and keysite DSOs have a 'plug-in' for doing 
power measurements. All of this instrument-grade stuff can easily handle 
external sensors.


Brian

-Original Message-
From: Amund Westin [mailto:am...@westin-emission.no] 
Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 1:05 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] Current measurement

If you want to calculate the consumed power (W) in a 1-phase AC circuit, you
can use a current clamp-on device to measure the current in one lead/wire
and multiply with the applied voltage.
But with such a current clamp on device, to we measure the apparent power
(VA) or the real power (W)?

Best regards
Amund

-

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Re: [PSES] Current measurement

[Ghery Pettit]

VA.  You don't have any phase information when the two variables are
measured separately.

Ghery

-Original Message-
From: Amund Westin [mailto:am...@westin-emission.no] 
Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 1:05 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] Current measurement

If you want to calculate the consumed power (W) in a 1-phase AC circuit, you
can use a current clamp-on device to measure the current in one lead/wire
and multiply with the applied voltage.
But with such a current clamp on device, to we measure the apparent power
(VA) or the real power (W)?

Best regards
Amund

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Re: [PSES] Current measurement

[Ken Javor]

Unless you can look at both voltage and current on an o'scope and compute
phase angle between them, you are only measuring apparent power.

Ken Javor
Phone: (256) 650-5261



> From: Amund Westin 
> Reply-To: Amund Westin 
> Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2018 22:04:44 +0100
> To: 
> Subject: [PSES] Current measurement
> 
> If you want to calculate the consumed power (W) in a 1-phase AC circuit, you
> can use a current clamp-on device to measure the current in one lead/wire
> and multiply with the applied voltage.
> But with such a current clamp on device, to we measure the apparent power
> (VA) or the real power (W)?
> 
> Best regards
> Amund
> 
> -
> 
> This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc
> discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to
> 
> 
> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
> http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html
> 
> Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at
> http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used
> formats), large files, etc.
> 
> Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
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> unsubscribe)
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> Mike Cantwell 
> 
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[PSES] Current measurement

[Amund Westin]

If you want to calculate the consumed power (W) in a 1-phase AC circuit, you
can use a current clamp-on device to measure the current in one lead/wire
and multiply with the applied voltage.
But with such a current clamp on device, to we measure the apparent power
(VA) or the real power (W)?

Best regards
Amund

-

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