Re: [PSES] Do We Need Flame Retardants in Electronics?

2019-09-30 Thread Peter Tarver 
Not quite so long ago as high voltage vacuum tubes, I am aware of one incident 
where a small "fire" (more accurately, smoke escaped and the enclosure melted) 
occurred in in a TV. IIRC, this was a case where the production of the molded 
plastic yielded material too thin, but this was on the order of 25 years ago.

On another front, there is an area where flame retardants are the enemy of 
compliance: in "other spaces for environmental air." Flame retardants emit 
copious amounts of particulates as they resist ignition. This can cause the 
opacity and density of smoke in the test chamber to exceed proscribed limits. 
If a fire enclosure is not needed (e.g., LSP or LVLE or similar are all that's 
involved) and a metal enclosure is not a cost effective option the best 
approach is to use a lower flammability classified material with low doping 
load of flame retardant and possibly a high percentage of inorganic fill 
material (e.g., glass fibers, etc.).


Peter Tarver

From: Ted Eckert <07cf6ebeab9d-dmarc-requ...@ieee.org>
Sent: Monday, September 16, 2019 1:56 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Do We Need Flame Retardants in Electronics?

 I seem to recall that long ago, when televisions had vacuum tubes, high 
voltage and high power, fires were an issue. I'm not positive, but I thought 
that the requirements for flame retardants came from investigations of a number 
of fires of plastic enclosed televisions. I believe that the basis for the 
requirement is sound. It's been decades since flammable plastics were commonly 
used for IT and A/V products. The fact that there have been few issues may be 
due to the effectiveness of flame retardants.

Ted Eckert
Microsoft Corporation

The opinions experessed are my own and do not necessarily reflect those of my 
employer.

From: Pete Perkins 
<0061f3f32d0c-dmarc-requ...@ieee.org>
Sent: Monday, September 16, 2019 1:46 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Do We Need Flame Retardants in Electronics?

Rich, et al,   Like many issues we see raging around us this is one 
which got caught up in political correctness before it had a large public face. 
 I personally felt that the science of flame retardants is well understood and 
making a change involved adding in risks which were not well understood 
therefore bad practice.  Thanx for bring this around again.

:>) br,  Pete

Peter E Perkins, PE
Principal Product Safety & Regulatory Affairs Consultant
PO Box 1067
Albany, Ore  97321-0413

503/452-1201

IEEE Life Fellow
p.perk...@ieee.org

Entropy ain't what it used to be

From: Richard Nute mailto:ri...@bendbroadband.com>>
Sent: Monday, September 16, 2019 1:32 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] Do We Need Flame Retardants in Electronics?



https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/do-we-need-flame-retardants-in-electronics/

 "...there has never been any valid statistical demonstration that flame 
retardant chemicals of the types and concentrations used in consumer products 
have resulted in death or injury reduction," says Vytenis 
Babrauskas...

The article is more than 5 years old.  Nevertheless, thought-provoking.

Enjoy!

Rich
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Re: [PSES] fire enclosure requirements for small Lithium battery

2019-09-30 Thread John Allen 
Which is possibly why there a "few" phone fires, especially when charged
from the host of "cr*p"/dangerously poor 3rd-party chargers that are widely
available (I am very careful with both the phones and the chargers that -
occasionly, every 3-4 years - I buy).

John E Allen
W. London, UK

-Original Message-
From: Boštjan Glavič [mailto:bostjan.gla...@siq.si] 
Sent: 30 September 2019 20:06
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] fire enclosure requirements for small Lithium battery

Hi Rich,

All mobile phones constructed in such a way. Enclosure made of HB.

Best regards
Bostjan



On Mon, Sep 30, 2019 at 7:52 PM +0200, "Richard Nute"
mailto:ri...@bendbroadband.com>> wrote:


"Many manufacturers consider outer tape around battery, that's meet min.
V-1, as fire enclosure."

This construction may meet the letter of the standard, but is not effective
as a fire enclosure.

If the battery overheats, it will melt the tape and.

Best regards,
Rich



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Re: [PSES] fire enclosure requirements for small Lithium battery

2019-09-30 Thread Boštjan Glavič 
Hi Rich,

All mobile phones constructed in such a way. Enclosure made of HB.

Best regards
Bostjan



On Mon, Sep 30, 2019 at 7:52 PM +0200, "Richard Nute" 
mailto:ri...@bendbroadband.com>> wrote:


“Many manufacturers consider outer tape around battery, that's meet min. V-1, 
as fire enclosure.”

This construction may meet the letter of the standard, but is not effective as 
a fire enclosure.

If the battery overheats, it will melt the tape and…

Best regards,
Rich



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[PSES] fire enclosure requirements for small Lithium battery

2019-09-30 Thread Richard Nute 
 

"Many manufacturers consider outer tape around battery, that's meet min.
V-1, as fire enclosure."

 

This construction may meet the letter of the standard, but is not effective
as a fire enclosure.

 

If the battery overheats, it will melt the tape and.

 

Best regards,

Rich

 

 

 


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[PSES] Oct 2nd - TUV SUD Ottawa seminars and open house

2019-09-30 Thread S Drysdale 
Dear fellow IEEE EMC-PSTC members,

For those able to make it, TUV SUD Ottawa would like to invite you to our
open house on the afternoon of Wednesday Oct 2nd, where we are offering
multiple free technical seminars.

For further details and registration see below:
https://www.tuv-sud.ca/ca-en/news-and-events/events/2019-ottawa-open-house

Kind Regards / Cordialement,
Scott Drysdale, NCT
https://www.linkedin.com/in/scottdrysdale/
OOO - Own Opinions Only

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