Re: [PSES] Power line noise expert?

[Ken Wyatt]

Thanks everyone, I believe I’ve found the right person to help. I believe the 
question was all about monitoring/understanding power distribution systems in 
large buildings.

Cheers, Ken

___

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help!

Kenneth Wyatt
Wyatt Technical Services LLC
56 Aspen Dr.
Woodland Park, CO 80863

Phone: (719) 310-5418

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> On Jun 28, 2020, at 7:23 PM, Curt McNamara  wrote:
> 
> Noise in the ground? With respect to what? :-)
> 
> The ground should be protective earth and carry no energy. The neutral will 
> carry some energy in most systems, and a system with multiple neutral / 
> ground connections could also have ground 'loops'. I dislike that term ...
> 
> Anyway a good power line monitor will have an isolated power supply and be 
> able to characterize ground 'noise' (i.e. common mode?). 
> 
> Ground 'noise' should be common mode, and a few hours with Henry Ott's text 
> should help them think through that.
> 
> Assuming there is ground noise, an isolated supply may be their answer ...
> 
> Curt
> 
> http://www.hottconsultants.com/ 
> 
> 
> On Sat, Jun 27, 2020, 8:36 PM Ken Wyatt  > wrote:
> Sorry I may not have been clear enough, but I got the idea they were looking 
> for someone to advise them on power line noise in buildings - like using a 
> power line monitor, or similar, in the ground wiring.
> 
> Ken
> 
> ___
> 
> I'm here to help you succeed! Feel free to call or email with any questions 
> related to EMC or EMI troubleshooting - at no obligation. I'm always happy to 
> help!
> 
> Kenneth Wyatt
> Wyatt Technical Services LLC
> 56 Aspen Dr.
> Woodland Park, CO 80863
> 
> Phone: (719) 310-5418
> 
> Web Site  | Blog 
> The EMC Blog (EDN) 
> 
> Subscribe to Newsletter 
> 
> Connect with me on LinkedIn 
> 
>> On Jun 27, 2020, at 6:13 PM, Ken Javor > > wrote:
>> 
>> Replying to all here because the first time I just did a list reply and was 
>> rejected by the list server.
>> 
>>  Seems as if we need answers to more questions before making a 
>> recommendation, technical or personnel.
>> 
>> Why are they interested in this? For any device meeting FCC/CISPR-type EMI 
>> requirements the individual load steady-state contribution can be bound by 
>> considering the conducted emission limit to be all common mode. And then 
>> there is some sort of rss summation, in the frequency and time domains.  
>> There may be some heavy loads switching below 150 kHz, but they should be in 
>> a minority. 
>> 
>> Current? Voltage?  If voltage, at what point: outlet or breaker box or... ?
>> 
>> Knowing what their concern is would go a long ways towards defining what the 
>> problem solution is, and who might be the best at solving it.  
>> 
>> 
>> Ken Javor
>> Phone: (256) 650-5261
>> 
>> From: Ken Wyatt >
>> Reply-To: Ken Wyatt >
>> Date: Sat, 27 Jun 2020 15:01:31 -0600
>> To: >
>> Subject: [PSES] Power line noise expert?
>> 
>> Hi All,
>> 
>> I had an inquiry from someone who would like some help with power line noise 
>> specifically in buildings. This is really outside my specialties, so was 
>> wondering who on the list I could recommend to them?
>> 
>> Here’s the original question:
>> 
>> I have interest in better understanding of a building's power distribution 
>> network and more specifically with quantifying the EMI that is observed on 
>> the AC power safety ground. The frequency range is DC to 1MHz, low-frequency 
>> range.
>> 
>> Who could help with this?
>> 
>> Thanks, Ken
>> ___
>> 
>> I'm here to help you succeed! Feel free to call or email with any questions 
>> related to EMC or EMI troubleshooting - at no obligation. I'm always happy 
>> to help!
>> 
>> Kenneth Wyatt
>> Wyatt Technical Services LLC
>> 56 Aspen Dr.
>> Woodland Park, CO 80863
>> 
>> Phone: (719) 310-5418
>> 
>> Web Site >  | 
>> Blog > 
>> The EMC Blog (EDN) 
>> > > 
>> Subscribe to Newsletter 
>> > 

Re: [PSES] Conducted emission - AC line filters makes it worse

[Cortland Richmond]

It's three phase -- and you'll need a three-phase filter sharing one return 
winding rather than three single phase filters.

IMHO.


Cortland Richmond


-Original Message-
>From: Amund Westin 
>Sent: Jun 28, 2020 4:58 AM
>To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
>Subject: [PSES] Conducted emission - AC line filters makes it worse
>
>A 3-phase product has three internal AC driven devices.
>The product fails on Conducted emission. When connecting AC filters to 
>each internal AC driven devices, the emission gets even worse.
>
>Any clue about this phenomena? Is it some kind of impedance mismatch 
>which derate the filters performance?
>
>BR
>Amund
>
>-
>
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Re: [PSES] Conducted emission - AC line filters makes it worse

[Patrick]

Hi Amund

This sounds like a very interesting problem.  Likely many people will have
advice.  Maybe get lucky and someone will have had this exact same problem.

I'd like to help if I can.  Do you have more information on the failure?
What test standard and test method did you use?  How much over the limit?
What filters were used and how were they connected?

It could be an installation of good filters, but not wired for the emission
type.  Also could be wrong filter type for problem?

Very interesting.

On Sun, Jun 28, 2020, 2:58 AM Amund Westin  wrote:

> A 3-phase product has three internal AC driven devices.
> The product fails on Conducted emission. When connecting AC filters to
> each internal AC driven devices, the emission gets even worse.
>
> Any clue about this phenomena? Is it some kind of impedance mismatch
> which derate the filters performance?
>
> BR
> Amund
>
> -
> 
> This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc
> discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <
> emc-p...@ieee.org>
>
> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
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>
> Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at
> http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in
> well-used formats), large files, etc.
>
> Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
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> Mike Cantwell 
>
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[PSES] Conducted emission - AC line filters makes it worse

[Amund Westin]

A 3-phase product has three internal AC driven devices.
The product fails on Conducted emission. When connecting AC filters to 
each internal AC driven devices, the emission gets even worse.


Any clue about this phenomena? Is it some kind of impedance mismatch 
which derate the filters performance?


BR
Amund

-

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list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 

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