[PSES] Fw: Re: [PSES] How to Measure Surface Conductivity?

2023-04-11 Thread Brian Gregory 
 Conductive epoxy bonding the probe to the surface?Calibrate with a current 
shunt. "Colorado" Brian 
720-450-4933

-- Forwarded Message --
From: Marko Radojicic <052300254e41-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ieee.org>
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] How to Measure Surface Conductivity?
Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2023 13:00:08 -0700


Try a conductive elastomer on the DMM probes. Intent is to not scratch the 
surface. 
 However from your description, new coating appears functionally equivalent 
especially if bonding mechanisms use any type of sharp edge (BeCu gasket, 
screw, etc)

Sent from my mobilePlease excuse brevity & grammar 
On Apr 11, 2023, at 12:45 PM, Brian Kunde  wrote:

I have been given two samples of metal plates; one plated in our current 
material and the other with a new plating material we want to switch to in 
production.  I have been tasked to compare the electrical surface conductivity. 
What is the best way to do this?  How is this done in the industry? I have 
tried the following methods;1. DMM (Ohm Meter) = inconclusive results2. Used 5 
volts from a current limited power supply and measured the current = 
inconclusive results3. Used our Ground Bond Tester set to 60 amps. One plate 
measured 3-4m, the other 1-3m I measured 1 inch apart and from 
corner to corner. Test #3 above is the only test that showed any difference.   
BTW, I use 3/4" squares of soft braid material between the probes and surface. 
The probes are zeroed out between tests.   So far, I can conclude that the new 
material is as good as, or slightly better than our current production plating 
material.   What more can I do, within reason? Thanks to all.The Other Brian-
 
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Re: [PSES] How to Measure Surface Conductivity?

2023-04-11 Thread Ken Javor 
I would measure ohms per square using a milliohm meter. Also, another
critical parameter is how hard the coating is. If the new coating is much
harder than the original, it will likely make for poorer conductivity at any
seams, resulting in lower shielding effectiveness even if the material
conductivity is similar.  A gasket might then be required where none was
previously.

Marko Radojicic¹s comment bears directly on this issue.  The connection
between probes and coatings should be identical, including applied pressure.
If more pressure needs to be applied to get good results, that is a measure
of the surface hardness.

Ken Javor
Phone: (256) 650-5261




From: Brian Kunde 
Reply-To: Brian Kunde 
Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2023 15:45:29 -0400
To: 
Subject: [PSES] How to Measure Surface Conductivity?

I have been given two samples of metal plates; one plated in our current
material and the other with a new plating material we want to switch to in
production.  I have been tasked to compare the electrical surface
conductivity.

What is the best way to do this?  How is this done in the industry?

I have tried the following methods;
1. DMM (Ohm Meter) = inconclusive results
2. Used 5 volts from a current limited power supply and measured the current
= inconclusive results
3. Used our Ground Bond Tester set to 60 amps. One plate measured 3-4m‡, the
other 1-3m‡

I measured 1 inch apart and from corner to corner. Test #3 above is the only
test that showed any difference.  

BTW, I use 3/4" squares of soft braid material between the probes and
surface. The probes are zeroed out between tests.  

So far, I can conclude that the new material is as good as, or slightly
better than our current production plating material.  

What more can I do, within reason?

Thanks to all.
The Other Brian
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Re: [PSES] How to Measure Surface Conductivity?

2023-04-11 Thread Marko Radojicic 
Try a conductive elastomer on the DMM probes. Intent is to not scratch the surface. However from your description, new coating appears functionally equivalent especially if bonding mechanisms use any type of sharp edge (BeCu gasket, screw, etc)Sent from my mobilePlease excuse brevity & grammar On Apr 11, 2023, at 12:45 PM, Brian Kunde  wrote:I have been given two samples of metal plates; one plated in our current material and the other with a new plating material we want to switch to in production.  I have been tasked to compare the electrical surface conductivity.What is the best way to do this?  How is this done in the industry?I have tried the following methods;1. DMM (Ohm Meter) = inconclusive results2. Used 5 volts from a current limited power supply and measured the current = inconclusive results3. Used our Ground Bond Tester set to 60 amps. One plate measured 3-4mΩ, the other 1-3mΩI measured 1 inch apart and from corner to corner. Test #3 above is the only test that showed any difference.  BTW, I use 3/4" squares of soft braid material between the probes and surface. The probes are zeroed out between tests.  So far, I can conclude that the new material is as good as, or slightly better than our current production plating material.  What more can I do, within reason?Thanks to all.The Other Brian
-

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[PSES] How to Measure Surface Conductivity?

2023-04-11 Thread Brian Kunde 
I have been given two samples of metal plates; one plated in our current
material and the other with a new plating material we want to switch to in
production.  I have been tasked to compare the electrical surface
conductivity.

What is the best way to do this?  How is this done in the industry?

I have tried the following methods;
1. DMM (Ohm Meter) = inconclusive results
2. Used 5 volts from a current limited power supply and measured the
current = inconclusive results
3. Used our Ground Bond Tester set to 60 amps. One plate measured 3-4mΩ,
the other 1-3mΩ

I measured 1 inch apart and from corner to corner. Test #3 above is the
only test that showed any difference.

BTW, I use 3/4" squares of soft braid material between the probes and
surface. The probes are zeroed out between tests.

So far, I can conclude that the new material is as good as, or slightly
better than our current production plating material.

What more can I do, within reason?

Thanks to all.
The Other Brian

-

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Re: [PSES] Multiple electrical power sources

2023-04-11 Thread James Pawson (U3C) 
Hello Steve,

 

Following up on Kevin’s message about IEC 62368-1, there are some requirements 
in Annex L (Disconnect Devices)

 

L.8 Multiple power sources

Where a unit receives power from more than one source (for example, different 
voltages/frequencies or as redundant power), there shall be a prominent 
instructional safeguard in accordance with Clause F.5 at each disconnect device 
giving adequate instructions for the removal of all power from the unit.

 

The elements of the instructional safeguard shall be as follows:

– element 1a: IEC 60417-6042 (2010-11); and IEC 60417-6172 (2012-09)

– element 2: “Caution” or equivalent word or text, and “Shock hazard” or 
equivalent text

– element 3: optional

– element 4: “Disconnect all power sources” or equivalent text

 

If more than one such disconnect device is provided on a unit, all these 
devices shall be grouped together. It is not necessary that the devices be 
mechanically linked.

 

 

All the best

James

 

James Pawson

Managing Director & EMC Problem Solver

 

Office hours:

My mornings are reserved for full attention on consultancy, testing, and 
troubleshooting activities for our customers’ projects. I am otherwise 
contactable between 1300h to 1730h from Monday to Friday.

For inquiries, bookings, and testing updates please send us an email on  
 he...@unit3compliance.co.uk or call 01274 
911747. Our lead times for testing and consultancy are typically 4-5 weeks.

 

Unit 3 Compliance Ltd

EMC : Environmental & Vibration : Electrical Safety : CE & UKCA : Consultancy

 

  www.unit3compliance.co.uk |  
 ja...@unit3compliance.co.uk 

+44(0)1274 911747  |  +44(0)7811 139957

2 Wellington Business Park, New Lane, Bradford, BD4 8AL

Registered in England and Wales # 10574298

 

From: Douglas Powell  
Sent: Friday, April 7, 2023 6:14 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Multiple electrical power sources

 

Although related to the installation of products and not necessarily the 
product desgins themselves, you might review NFPA 70, National Electric Code.  
They do have requirements when using multiple sources.

 

-Doug

 

 

Douglas E Powell

Laporte, Colorado USA

  doug...@gmail.com

  LinkedIn

 

(UTC -06:00, US-MDT)

 

 

 

 

On Thu, Apr 6, 2023 at 2:41 PM Steve Brody mailto:sgbr...@comcast.net> > wrote:

A new question. 

 

A client's product is using two independent AC power sources on a product, but 
I can't find anything in 61010-1 60204-1 that provide any guidance on 
compliance. 

 

The obvious is that the sections of the product that are fed from source A or B 
are not interrelated in any way that would create a hazard for for the other 
section, that there be a warning label adjacent to each input that says there 
are multiple AC sources, and that each section has it's own circuit protection 
and disconnect, even if a facility disconnect is used for both. 

 

What am I missing? 

 

Thanks, 

 

 

Steve Brody 

  sgbr...@comcast.net 

C - 603 617 9116 

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