Re: [PSES] AW: [PSES] SV: [PSES] User manual by accompanying documents or via affixed QR

[Scott Xe]

Dear Bernd,

Although LVD and RED are modern directives, they are considered old
compared with MR issued in 2023.  Could the view on instructions in
electronic format be aligned all together one day?

Thanks and regards,

Scott


On Tue, 15 Aug 2023 at 13:27, Scott Xe  wrote:

> Dear Bernd,
>
> Thanks for your good references!  The LVD and RED do not decline the
> instructions in electronic format.  What about those instructions embedded
> in the ROM as the memory is not expensive as before?  For example, mobile
> phones, TVs, etc.
>
> Regards,
>
> Scott
>
>
>
> On Mon, 14 Aug 2023 at 15:14, Dürrer Bernd  wrote:
>
>> Hi Amund,
>>
>>
>>
>> In the European Union, it depends on the Directive that is applicable for
>> your product. Both the Low Voltage Directive 2014/35/EU 
>> (L_2014096EN.01035701.xml
>> (europa.eu)
>> ,
>> Article 6, Point 7, Article 8, Point 4, and Article 9, Point 2) and the
>> Radio Directive 2014/53/EU (Consolidated TEXT: 32014L0053 — EN —
>> 27.12.2022 (europa.eu)
>> ,
>> Article 10, Point 8, Article 12, Point 4, and Article 13, Point 2) require
>> that manufacturers, importers, and distributors ensure that the product is
>> accompanied by instructions and safety information. Only new regulation
>> (EU) 2023/1230 that will replace Machinery Directive in January 2027 allows
>> to provide instructions in digital format (L_2023165EN.01000101.xml
>> (europa.eu)
>> ,
>> Article 10, Point 7).
>>
>>
>>
>> Kind regards,
>>
>>
>>
>> Bernd
>>
>>
>>
>> *Von:* John Woodgate 
>> *Gesendet:* Sonntag, 13. August 2023 19:14
>> *An:* EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
>> *Betreff:* Re: [PSES] SV: [PSES] User manual by accompanying documents
>> or via affixed QR
>>
>>
>>
>> [EXTERNAL E-MAIL] This email originated from outside of the organization.
>> Do not click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender.
>>
>> No. I don't see so many EU documents as others here do, and it is very
>> difficult, as you know, to find a document when you don't know a document
>> title to look for. I am remembering information posted here quite a long
>> time ago.
>>
>> On 2023-08-13 17:56, Amund Westin wrote:
>>
>> Yes, I was thinking that a short paper guide would help. URL link is
>> important as you say, and QR are actually for advanced mobile users.
>>
>>
>>
>> Have you seen this issue been discussed in “Blue Guide” or other EU
>> documents?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *Fra:* John Woodgate
>> *Sendt:* 13. august 2023 18:43
>> *Til:* EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
>> *Emne:* Re: [PSES] User manual by accompanying documents or via affixed
>> QR
>>
>>
>>
>> I believe that in Europe, it is not allowed. Current practice seems to be
>> to include with the product a short  'User Guide' or similar, which
>> includes the safety information required by the relevant safety standard,
>> and the DOC(s), together with a text link of the URL of the full User
>> Manual. You could include a QR code in addition, but not instead of the
>> text link, because about 15 % of people don't have a smart phone or don't
>> know much about using it for anything but calls, text messages and the
>> camera.
>>
>> On 2023-08-13 16:57, Amund Westin wrote:
>>
>> To avoid a lot of paper use, it is possible to leave a short instruction
>> with the product to enter a web site or use affixed QR code (on product) to
>> get access to the User manual and other relevant documentation?
>>
>> Should such a symbol Link https://www.iso.org/obp/ui#iso:grs:7000:3500
>>  also be attached when using QR code?
>>
>>
>>
>> Best regards
>>
>> Amund
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc
>> discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All
>> emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
>> https://www.mail-archive.com/emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org/
>> 
>>
>> Website: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/
>> Instructions: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/list.html (including how to
>> unsubscribe) 
>> List rules: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/listrules.html
>>
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>>
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>>
>> --
>>
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>> discussion list. To post a message to the li

Re: [PSES] AW: [PSES] SV: [PSES] User manual by accompanying documents or via affixed QR

[Charlie Blackham]

Scott

Requirements on instructions to be in printed format are often included/implied 
in safety standards – for example EN 62368-1:2014:

F.4 Instructions
When information with regard to safety is required according to this standard, 
this information
shall be given in an instruction for installation or instruction for initial 
use. This information
shall be available prior to installation and initial use of the equipment.

The final sentence precludes safety instructions being embedded on the device

Article 10(8) of the RED states:

Manufacturers shall ensure that the radio equipment is accompanied by 
instructions and safety information in a language which can be easily 
understood by consumers and other end-users, as determined by the Member State 
concerned.

Section 2.6(j) of the RED Guide states:

The Blue Guide, in Chapter 3.1.4, provides more details on how the instructions 
and safety information need to be provided. According to the Blue Guide, whilst 
the safety information needs to be provided on paper, it is not required that 
all the set of instructions is also provided on paper but they can also be on 
electronic or other data storage format, however a paper version should always 
be available free of charge for the consumers who request it. It is noted that 
the information in Article 10.8 (second sub-paragraph) and Article 10.10, as is 
specifically required by the RED and not directly related with the general 
instructions of use, shall be provided in paper.

The practical application of this is a short printed guide shipped with the 
product.

Best regards
Charlie

Charlie Blackham
Sulis Consultants Ltd
Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317
Web: https://sulisconsultants.com/
Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247

From: Scott Xe 
Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2023 6:27 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] AW: [PSES] SV: [PSES] User manual by accompanying documents 
or via affixed QR

Dear Bernd,

Thanks for your good references!  The LVD and RED do not decline the 
instructions in electronic format.  What about those instructions embedded in 
the ROM as the memory is not expensive as before?  For example, mobile phones, 
TVs, etc.

Regards,

Scott



On Mon, 14 Aug 2023 at 15:14, Dürrer Bernd 
mailto:bernd.duer...@wilo.com>> wrote:
Hi Amund,

In the European Union, it depends on the Directive that is applicable for your 
product. Both the Low Voltage Directive 2014/35/EU (L_2014096EN.01035701.xml 
(europa.eu),
 Article 6, Point 7, Article 8, Point 4, and Article 9, Point 2) and the Radio 
Directive 2014/53/EU (Consolidated TEXT: 32014L0053 — EN — 27.12.2022 
(europa.eu),
 Article 10, Point 8, Article 12, Point 4, and Article 13, Point 2) require 
that manufacturers, importers, and distributors ensure that the product is 
accompanied by instructions and safety information. Only new regulation (EU) 
2023/1230 that will replace Machinery Directive in January 2027 allows to 
provide instructions in digital format (L_2023165EN.01000101.xml 
(europa.eu),
 Article 10, Point 7).

Kind regards,

Bernd

Von: John Woodgate mailto:j...@woodjohn.uk>>
Gesendet: Sonntag, 13. August 2023 19:14
An: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Betreff: Re: [PSES] SV: [PSES] User manual by accompanying documents or via 
affixed QR

[EXTERNAL E-MAIL] This email originated from outside of the organization. Do 
not click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender.

No. I don't see so many EU documents as others here do, and it is very 
difficult, as you know, to find a document when you don't know a document title 
to look for. I am remembering information posted here quite a long time ago.
On 2023-08-13 17:56, Amund Westin wrote:
Yes, I was thinking that a short paper guide would help. URL link is important 
as you say, and QR are actually for advanced mobile users.

Have you seen this issue been discussed in “Blue Guide” or other EU documents?




Fra: John Woodgate
Sendt: 13. august 2023 18:43
Til: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Emne: Re: [PSES] User manual by accompanying documents or via affixed QR


I believe that in Europe, it is not allowed. Current practice seems to be to 
include with the product a short  'User Guide' or similar, which includes the 
safety information required by the relevant safety standard, and the DOC(s), 
together with a text link of the URL of the full User Manual. You could include 
a QR code in addition, but not instead of the text link, because about 15 % of 
people don't have a smart phone or don't know much about using it for anything 
but calls, text messages and the camera.
On 2023-08-13 16:57, Amund Westin wrote:
To a

Re: [PSES] AW: [PSES] SV: [PSES] User manual by accompanying documents or via affixed QR

[Scott Xe]

Dear Bernd,

Thanks for your good references!  The LVD and RED do not decline the
instructions in electronic format.  What about those instructions embedded
in the ROM as the memory is not expensive as before?  For example, mobile
phones, TVs, etc.

Regards,

Scott



On Mon, 14 Aug 2023 at 15:14, Dürrer Bernd  wrote:

> Hi Amund,
>
>
>
> In the European Union, it depends on the Directive that is applicable for
> your product. Both the Low Voltage Directive 2014/35/EU 
> (L_2014096EN.01035701.xml
> (europa.eu)
> ,
> Article 6, Point 7, Article 8, Point 4, and Article 9, Point 2) and the
> Radio Directive 2014/53/EU (Consolidated TEXT: 32014L0053 — EN —
> 27.12.2022 (europa.eu)
> ,
> Article 10, Point 8, Article 12, Point 4, and Article 13, Point 2) require
> that manufacturers, importers, and distributors ensure that the product is
> accompanied by instructions and safety information. Only new regulation
> (EU) 2023/1230 that will replace Machinery Directive in January 2027 allows
> to provide instructions in digital format (L_2023165EN.01000101.xml
> (europa.eu)
> ,
> Article 10, Point 7).
>
>
>
> Kind regards,
>
>
>
> Bernd
>
>
>
> *Von:* John Woodgate 
> *Gesendet:* Sonntag, 13. August 2023 19:14
> *An:* EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
> *Betreff:* Re: [PSES] SV: [PSES] User manual by accompanying documents or
> via affixed QR
>
>
>
> [EXTERNAL E-MAIL] This email originated from outside of the organization.
> Do not click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender.
>
> No. I don't see so many EU documents as others here do, and it is very
> difficult, as you know, to find a document when you don't know a document
> title to look for. I am remembering information posted here quite a long
> time ago.
>
> On 2023-08-13 17:56, Amund Westin wrote:
>
> Yes, I was thinking that a short paper guide would help. URL link is
> important as you say, and QR are actually for advanced mobile users.
>
>
>
> Have you seen this issue been discussed in “Blue Guide” or other EU
> documents?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *Fra:* John Woodgate
> *Sendt:* 13. august 2023 18:43
> *Til:* EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
> *Emne:* Re: [PSES] User manual by accompanying documents or via affixed QR
>
>
>
> I believe that in Europe, it is not allowed. Current practice seems to be
> to include with the product a short  'User Guide' or similar, which
> includes the safety information required by the relevant safety standard,
> and the DOC(s), together with a text link of the URL of the full User
> Manual. You could include a QR code in addition, but not instead of the
> text link, because about 15 % of people don't have a smart phone or don't
> know much about using it for anything but calls, text messages and the
> camera.
>
> On 2023-08-13 16:57, Amund Westin wrote:
>
> To avoid a lot of paper use, it is possible to leave a short instruction
> with the product to enter a web site or use affixed QR code (on product) to
> get access to the User manual and other relevant documentation?
>
> Should such a symbol Link https://www.iso.org/obp/ui#iso:grs:7000:3500
>  also be attached when using QR code?
>
>
>
> Best regards
>
> Amund
>
>
> --
>
> This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc
> discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All
> emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
> https://www.mail-archive.com/emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org/
> 
>
> Website: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/
> Instructions: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/list.html (including how to
> unsubscribe) 
> List rules: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/listrules.html
>
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> Mike Sherman at: msherma...@comcast.net
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>
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> --
>
> To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link:
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>
> --
>
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> discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All
> emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
> https://www.mail-archive.com/emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org/
> 
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> unsubscribe) 
> List rules: https://ewh.ieee.org/soc/ps

[PSES] 2022 IEEE EMC SIPI Symposium proceedings

[David Schaefer]

I attended the 2022 Symposium, and have a copy of the proceedings – but somehow 
the index file got deleted. Can anyone share that file with me? I am 
specifically trying to find a presentation on 5G immunity, I think from someone 
at IBM.

Thanks,




[cid:image931841.jpg@69E5E534.76AC205E]
David Schaefer​
Technical Manager
Element Materials Technology
9349 W Broadway Ave
Brooklyn Park
,
MN
55445
,
United States
O +1 612 638 5136
ext. 10461
david.schae...@element.com
www.element.com
[cid:image268009.png@47F51D8B.35489B2D]
[cid:image620071.png@BFA7A157.3D0DF050]
[cid:image347472.png@D1E4DAF7.C307346F]
[cid:image759628.png@555FD318.8DD20CB2]
[cid:image362165.jpg@AFB7F040.409789D4]

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[PSES] AW: [PSES] Friday Question - Line Cords in China

[Dürrer Bernd]

Hi Doug,

please be aware that line cords and plugs are subject to mandatory CCC 
certification in the People’s Republic of China (cf. CHINA QUALITY 
CERTIFICATION CENTRE-Notice and Bulletin 
(cqc.com.cn)). 
This means even if your product is exempt from mandatory CCC certification 
(i.e. is not included in the product catalogue cited in the web page), but has 
a cord and plug, these have to be CCC certified. Details on certification rules 
can be found at CHINA QUALITY CERTIFICATION CENTRE-Certification Scope and 
Rules 
(cqc.com.cn) and 
康捷 
(cqc.com.cn),
 that references Chinese standard GB 15934 which is the Chinese adoption of IEC 
60799.

Kind regards,

Bernd

Von: Douglas Powell 
Gesendet: Freitag, 11. August 2023 16:00
An: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Betreff: [PSES] Friday Question - Line Cords in China

[EXTERNAL E-MAIL] This email originated from outside of the organization. Do 
not click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender.
All,

I was talking with a client recently about shipping line cords to various 
countries around the world and how some do not allow the incorrect cords within 
a shipment while others do. Brazil, as far as I know, does not permit incorrect 
cordage. Argentina, Australia, and China (PRC) are all mutually exclusive. 
South Africa and India are mutually exclusive. Japan, Taiwan, and the United 
States are all mutually exclusive. If not prohibited, it is frequently cheaper 
to include multiple cords rather than create multiple regional SKUs when 
products are in low-volume production.

That said, apparently the China market often likes to use US-style receptacles 
(types A or B), even though they use 220 V (😬). The US-style plug has better 
density (twice as many receptacles in the same space as the China receptacle 
(Type C, or I ?), and with the US receptacles, there are many more aftermarket 
cable options available.  So I suppose that's my question: "Is this usage 
typical in China?"

Of course, the big issue is that the US plug is not rated for the higher 
voltages, even though historically some people may say it works.  I even fouind 
a website that shows this, 
https://www.travelchinaguide.com/essential/electricity.htm

I believe it is critical for manufacturers to not condone the use of the US 
plug in this manner, which appears to be common practice. And I usually advise 
that this type of usage should never be described, recommended, or mentioned in 
any manuals, brochures, or other written material produced by a company, either 
externally or internally. If anyone is injured and an investigation reveals 
agreement with this usage, the company may be held liable.

Thoughts??

-Doug


Douglas E Powell
Laporte, Colorado, USA
doug...@gmail.com
LinkedIn

(UTC-06:00, US-MDT)




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[PSES] AW: [PSES] SV: [PSES] User manual by accompanying documents or via affixed QR

[Dürrer Bernd]

Hi Amund,

In the European Union, it depends on the Directive that is applicable for your 
product. Both the Low Voltage Directive 2014/35/EU (L_2014096EN.01035701.xml 
(europa.eu),
 Article 6, Point 7, Article 8, Point 4, and Article 9, Point 2) and the Radio 
Directive 2014/53/EU (Consolidated TEXT: 32014L0053 - EN - 27.12.2022 
(europa.eu),
 Article 10, Point 8, Article 12, Point 4, and Article 13, Point 2) require 
that manufacturers, importers, and distributors ensure that the product is 
accompanied by instructions and safety information. Only new regulation (EU) 
2023/1230 that will replace Machinery Directive in January 2027 allows to 
provide instructions in digital format (L_2023165EN.01000101.xml 
(europa.eu),
 Article 10, Point 7).

Kind regards,

Bernd

Von: John Woodgate 
Gesendet: Sonntag, 13. August 2023 19:14
An: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Betreff: Re: [PSES] SV: [PSES] User manual by accompanying documents or via 
affixed QR

[EXTERNAL E-MAIL] This email originated from outside of the organization. Do 
not click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender.

No. I don't see so many EU documents as others here do, and it is very 
difficult, as you know, to find a document when you don't know a document title 
to look for. I am remembering information posted here quite a long time ago.
On 2023-08-13 17:56, Amund Westin wrote:
Yes, I was thinking that a short paper guide would help. URL link is important 
as you say, and QR are actually for advanced mobile users.

Have you seen this issue been discussed in "Blue Guide" or other EU documents?




Fra: John Woodgate
Sendt: 13. august 2023 18:43
Til: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Emne: Re: [PSES] User manual by accompanying documents or via affixed QR


I believe that in Europe, it is not allowed. Current practice seems to be to 
include with the product a short  'User Guide' or similar, which includes the 
safety information required by the relevant safety standard, and the DOC(s), 
together with a text link of the URL of the full User Manual. You could include 
a QR code in addition, but not instead of the text link, because about 15 % of 
people don't have a smart phone or don't know much about using it for anything 
but calls, text messages and the camera.
On 2023-08-13 16:57, Amund Westin wrote:
To avoid a lot of paper use, it is possible to leave a short instruction with 
the product to enter a web site or use affixed QR code (on product) to get 
access to the User manual and other relevant documentation?
Should such a symbol Link https://www.iso.org/obp/ui#iso:grs:7000:3500  also be 
attached when using QR code?

Best regards
Amund



This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All 
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