Re: [PSES] safety under single fault

[Ralph McDiarmid]

" This incident serves to remind us that in our field of product safety, we
require the product to be safe even in the event of a failure of any single
component. "

Maybe better to claim "product safety compliant under any single-fault".
It's quite a reach and perhaps not appropriate to claim something is safe,
unless you accompany that claim with your definition of safe, which may
differ from mine.  

Ralph

-Original Message-
From: Richard Nute  
Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2023 12:41 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] safety under single fault

Hello from Bend, Oregon:

On September 4, 2022, a plane carrying 10 people crashed into Puget Sound's
Mutiny Bay near Whidbey Island.  The National Transportation Safety Board,
which investigated the crash, said Thursday that a single component of a
critical flight control system failed, causing an unrecoverable,
near-vertical descent.  

"The Mutiny Bay accident is an incredibly painful reminder that a single
point of failure can lead to catastrophe in our skies," NTSB Chair Jennifer
Homendy said in a news release.

Nate Bingham, who is representing the Ludwigs' families, said the plane
crashed because of "an antiquated design with a single point of failure."

Details:
https://apnews.com/article/seaplane-crash-puget-sound-san-juan-island-10-kil
led-531d4e5a2dfed65370294243b1a07157

This incident serves to remind us that in our field of product safety, we
require the product to be safe even in the event of a failure of any single
component.  

Best regards,
Rich

 

Boats from the U.S. Coast Guard and Kitsap County Sheriff's Office search
the area off Whidbey Island north of Seattle on Sept. 5, 2022, where a
chartered floatplane crashed the day before, killing 10 people. Stephen
Brashear/AP file






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Re: [PSES] safety under single fault

[Ralph McDiarmid]

I suppose same can be said for any Google search done on the job site.

-Original Message-
From: Mark Gandler  
Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2023 2:28 PM
To: rmm.priv...@gmail.com; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: RE: [PSES] safety under single fault

Just a simple reminder, especially if anyone uses their employer or private
business devices to use AI tools: the information used for questions
immediately and forever becomes public property.

-Original Message-
From: Ralph McDiarmid 
Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2023 2:08 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] safety under single fault

Here's what ChatGPT 3.5 says about fault-tolerance and general aviation
aircraft:

Fault-tolerance systems in general aviation aircraft can enhance safety, but
their inclusion is not mandatory for all such aircraft.  The need for
fault-tolerance systems depends on several factors, including the type of
aircraft, its complexity, and its intended use.

General aviation aircraft range from small, simple, single-engine planes to
larger, more complex, and technologically advanced aircraft. The level of
fault tolerance required often correlates with the complexity and mission
profile of the aircraft.  Here are some considerations:

Simple Aircraft: Small, single-engine general aviation aircraft often have
basic systems and controls. While they are not required to have elaborate
fault-tolerance systems, safety measures such as redundant flight
instruments and simple backup systems might be included.

Advanced Aircraft: More complex general aviation aircraft, such as
multi-engine planes or those equipped with advanced avionics, might
incorporate redundant systems or fail-safe features to improve safety. For
example, they might have redundant power sources, dual avionics systems, or
backup instruments.

Mission Profile: The intended use of the aircraft can also influence the
need for fault-tolerance systems. Aircraft used for critical missions, like
air ambulance or search and rescue, might have more robust safety features
to ensure that they can operate in adverse conditions.

Regulations: Aviation authorities like the FAA in the United States set
safety standards for various aircraft categories. These standards may
dictate the inclusion of certain safety features, depending on the
aircraft's size and use. For example, Part 23 of the Federal Aviation
Regulations (FAR) in the U.S. specifies the airworthiness standards for
general aviation aircraft.

In summary, while fault-tolerance systems can enhance the safety of general
aviation aircraft, their inclusion is not a blanket requirement for all such
aircraft. It depends on factors such as the aircraft's complexity, mission
profile, and regulatory standards. Pilots and aircraft operators should
adhere to relevant safety regulations and guidelines, which may vary from
one country to another.


Ralph

-Original Message-
From: Richard Nute 
Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2023 12:41 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] safety under single fault

Hello from Bend, Oregon:

On September 4, 2022, a plane carrying 10 people crashed into Puget Sound's
Mutiny Bay near Whidbey Island.  The National Transportation Safety Board,
which investigated the crash, said Thursday that a single component of a
critical flight control system failed, causing an unrecoverable,
near-vertical descent.

"The Mutiny Bay accident is an incredibly painful reminder that a single
point of failure can lead to catastrophe in our skies," NTSB Chair Jennifer
Homendy said in a news release.

Nate Bingham, who is representing the Ludwigs' families, said the plane
crashed because of "an antiquated design with a single point of failure."

Details:
https://apnews.com/article/seaplane-crash-puget-sound-san-juan-island-10-kil
led-531d4e5a2dfed65370294243b1a07157

This incident serves to remind us that in our field of product safety, we
require the product to be safe even in the event of a failure of any single
component.

Best regards,
Rich



Boats from the U.S. Coast Guard and Kitsap County Sheriff's Office search
the area off Whidbey Island north of Seattle on Sept. 5, 2022, where a
chartered floatplane crashed the day before, killing 10 people. Stephen
Brashear/AP file






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Re: [PSES] safety under single fault

[Ralph McDiarmid]

Obviously, even an "antiquated design with a single point of failure", gets
an air worthiness certificate by the FAA.   However, LFP batteries need a
fault-tolerant battery management system and tons of testing called out in
UL1973 3rd edition.  Not all aircraft need single-fault tolerance.

I suspect that a large majority of aircraft incident reports are a result of
pilot error, nothing to do with the aircraft its avionics.

Ralph

-Original Message-
From: Richard Nute  
Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2023 12:41 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] safety under single fault

Hello from Bend, Oregon:

On September 4, 2022, a plane carrying 10 people crashed into Puget Sound's
Mutiny Bay near Whidbey Island.  The National Transportation Safety Board,
which investigated the crash, said Thursday that a single component of a
critical flight control system failed, causing an unrecoverable,
near-vertical descent.  

"The Mutiny Bay accident is an incredibly painful reminder that a single
point of failure can lead to catastrophe in our skies," NTSB Chair Jennifer
Homendy said in a news release.

Nate Bingham, who is representing the Ludwigs' families, said the plane
crashed because of "an antiquated design with a single point of failure."

Details:
https://apnews.com/article/seaplane-crash-puget-sound-san-juan-island-10-kil
led-531d4e5a2dfed65370294243b1a07157

This incident serves to remind us that in our field of product safety, we
require the product to be safe even in the event of a failure of any single
component.  

Best regards,
Rich

 

Boats from the U.S. Coast Guard and Kitsap County Sheriff's Office search
the area off Whidbey Island north of Seattle on Sept. 5, 2022, where a
chartered floatplane crashed the day before, killing 10 people. Stephen
Brashear/AP file






-

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discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to


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Re: [PSES] safety under single fault

[Mark Gandler]

Just a simple reminder, especially if anyone uses their employer or private 
business devices to use AI tools: the information used for questions 
immediately and forever becomes public property.

-Original Message-
From: Ralph McDiarmid 
Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2023 2:08 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] safety under single fault

Here's what ChatGPT 3.5 says about fault-tolerance and general aviation
aircraft:

Fault-tolerance systems in general aviation aircraft can enhance safety, but 
their inclusion is not mandatory for all such aircraft.  The need for 
fault-tolerance systems depends on several factors, including the type of 
aircraft, its complexity, and its intended use.

General aviation aircraft range from small, simple, single-engine planes to 
larger, more complex, and technologically advanced aircraft. The level of fault 
tolerance required often correlates with the complexity and mission profile of 
the aircraft.  Here are some considerations:

Simple Aircraft: Small, single-engine general aviation aircraft often have 
basic systems and controls. While they are not required to have elaborate 
fault-tolerance systems, safety measures such as redundant flight instruments 
and simple backup systems might be included.

Advanced Aircraft: More complex general aviation aircraft, such as multi-engine 
planes or those equipped with advanced avionics, might incorporate redundant 
systems or fail-safe features to improve safety. For example, they might have 
redundant power sources, dual avionics systems, or backup instruments.

Mission Profile: The intended use of the aircraft can also influence the need 
for fault-tolerance systems. Aircraft used for critical missions, like air 
ambulance or search and rescue, might have more robust safety features to 
ensure that they can operate in adverse conditions.

Regulations: Aviation authorities like the FAA in the United States set safety 
standards for various aircraft categories. These standards may dictate the 
inclusion of certain safety features, depending on the aircraft's size and use. 
For example, Part 23 of the Federal Aviation Regulations (FAR) in the U.S. 
specifies the airworthiness standards for general aviation aircraft.

In summary, while fault-tolerance systems can enhance the safety of general 
aviation aircraft, their inclusion is not a blanket requirement for all such 
aircraft. It depends on factors such as the aircraft's complexity, mission 
profile, and regulatory standards. Pilots and aircraft operators should adhere 
to relevant safety regulations and guidelines, which may vary from one country 
to another.


Ralph

-Original Message-
From: Richard Nute 
Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2023 12:41 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] safety under single fault

Hello from Bend, Oregon:

On September 4, 2022, a plane carrying 10 people crashed into Puget Sound's 
Mutiny Bay near Whidbey Island.  The National Transportation Safety Board, 
which investigated the crash, said Thursday that a single component of a 
critical flight control system failed, causing an unrecoverable, near-vertical 
descent.

"The Mutiny Bay accident is an incredibly painful reminder that a single point 
of failure can lead to catastrophe in our skies," NTSB Chair Jennifer Homendy 
said in a news release.

Nate Bingham, who is representing the Ludwigs' families, said the plane crashed 
because of "an antiquated design with a single point of failure."

Details:
https://apnews.com/article/seaplane-crash-puget-sound-san-juan-island-10-kil
led-531d4e5a2dfed65370294243b1a07157

This incident serves to remind us that in our field of product safety, we 
require the product to be safe even in the event of a failure of any single 
component.

Best regards,
Rich



Boats from the U.S. Coast Guard and Kitsap County Sheriff's Office search the 
area off Whidbey Island north of Seattle on Sept. 5, 2022, where a chartered 
floatplane crashed the day before, killing 10 people. Stephen Brashear/AP file






-

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To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link:
https://listse

Re: [PSES] safety under single fault

[Ralph McDiarmid]

Here's what ChatGPT 3.5 says about fault-tolerance and general aviation
aircraft:

Fault-tolerance systems in general aviation aircraft can enhance safety, but
their inclusion is not mandatory for all such aircraft.  The need for
fault-tolerance systems depends on several factors, including the type of
aircraft, its complexity, and its intended use.

General aviation aircraft range from small, simple, single-engine planes to
larger, more complex, and technologically advanced aircraft. The level of
fault tolerance required often correlates with the complexity and mission
profile of the aircraft.  Here are some considerations:

Simple Aircraft: Small, single-engine general aviation aircraft often have
basic systems and controls. While they are not required to have elaborate
fault-tolerance systems, safety measures such as redundant flight
instruments and simple backup systems might be included.

Advanced Aircraft: More complex general aviation aircraft, such as
multi-engine planes or those equipped with advanced avionics, might
incorporate redundant systems or fail-safe features to improve safety. For
example, they might have redundant power sources, dual avionics systems, or
backup instruments.

Mission Profile: The intended use of the aircraft can also influence the
need for fault-tolerance systems. Aircraft used for critical missions, like
air ambulance or search and rescue, might have more robust safety features
to ensure that they can operate in adverse conditions.

Regulations: Aviation authorities like the FAA in the United States set
safety standards for various aircraft categories. These standards may
dictate the inclusion of certain safety features, depending on the
aircraft's size and use. For example, Part 23 of the Federal Aviation
Regulations (FAR) in the U.S. specifies the airworthiness standards for
general aviation aircraft.

In summary, while fault-tolerance systems can enhance the safety of general
aviation aircraft, their inclusion is not a blanket requirement for all such
aircraft. It depends on factors such as the aircraft's complexity, mission
profile, and regulatory standards. Pilots and aircraft operators should
adhere to relevant safety regulations and guidelines, which may vary from
one country to another.


Ralph

-Original Message-
From: Richard Nute  
Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2023 12:41 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] safety under single fault

Hello from Bend, Oregon:

On September 4, 2022, a plane carrying 10 people crashed into Puget Sound's
Mutiny Bay near Whidbey Island.  The National Transportation Safety Board,
which investigated the crash, said Thursday that a single component of a
critical flight control system failed, causing an unrecoverable,
near-vertical descent.  

"The Mutiny Bay accident is an incredibly painful reminder that a single
point of failure can lead to catastrophe in our skies," NTSB Chair Jennifer
Homendy said in a news release.

Nate Bingham, who is representing the Ludwigs' families, said the plane
crashed because of "an antiquated design with a single point of failure."

Details:
https://apnews.com/article/seaplane-crash-puget-sound-san-juan-island-10-kil
led-531d4e5a2dfed65370294243b1a07157

This incident serves to remind us that in our field of product safety, we
require the product to be safe even in the event of a failure of any single
component.  

Best regards,
Rich

 

Boats from the U.S. Coast Guard and Kitsap County Sheriff's Office search
the area off Whidbey Island north of Seattle on Sept. 5, 2022, where a
chartered floatplane crashed the day before, killing 10 people. Stephen
Brashear/AP file






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Website:  https://

[PSES] safety under single fault

[Richard Nute]

Hello from Bend, Oregon:

On September 4, 2022, a plane carrying 10 people crashed into Puget Sound's
Mutiny Bay near Whidbey Island.  The National Transportation Safety Board,
which investigated the crash, said Thursday that a single component of a
critical flight control system failed, causing an unrecoverable,
near-vertical descent.  

"The Mutiny Bay accident is an incredibly painful reminder that a single
point of failure can lead to catastrophe in our skies," NTSB Chair Jennifer
Homendy said in a news release.

Nate Bingham, who is representing the Ludwigs' families, said the plane
crashed because of "an antiquated design with a single point of failure."

Details:
https://apnews.com/article/seaplane-crash-puget-sound-san-juan-island-10-kil
led-531d4e5a2dfed65370294243b1a07157

This incident serves to remind us that in our field of product safety, we
require the product to be safe even in the event of a failure of any single
component.  

Best regards,
Rich

 

Boats from the U.S. Coast Guard and Kitsap County Sheriff's Office search
the area off Whidbey Island north of Seattle on Sept. 5, 2022, where a
chartered floatplane crashed the day before, killing 10 people. Stephen
Brashear/AP file






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discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 


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