Re: NEC Question
Manufacturers of capital equipment for the semiconductor industry have been wrestling with these complicated listing problems for a while. We sponsored an all-day meeting on the topic last summer, and the 207 pages of handouts from that meeting can be found at http://www.semi.org/web/winitiatives.nsf/url/ehsW01NRTLpresent which is on the web site of SEMI, our trade organization. Mike Sherman FSI International --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
Re: Product Safety: A Matter of Law or Litigation?
Folks -- I've seen a lot of assertions in this email chain, some of which I'd like to challenge on a factual basis. Note that I am not disagreeing with what a prudent business decision might be, but am rather challenging the assertions of what the laws state. 1. The General Product Safety Directive contains language right up front describing it as applying to consumer as opposed to other (commercial or industrial, I believe) products. It seems to me that this directive, then, does not apply by default, as asserted by some, if your product is for commercial or industrial use only. 2. I believe that it's very clear that the Low Voltage Directive does not require use of EN standards. 3. I believe that the concept of strict liability i.e., that one only has to prove that a product is defective, as opposed to proving negligence, is well-established in the USA. Mike Sherman FSI International --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall,
Re: Label Symbols?
In a message dated 1/31/2001 8:07:50 PM Central Standard Time, ggars...@us.tuv.com writes: According to EN 61010-1 (test equipment), which uses it, exclamation point in a triangle is symbol B.3.1, Caution (refer to accompanying documents), from ISO 3864: SAFETY COLOUR AND SAFETY SIGNS. Be aware of a small distinction here: the interpretation of Caution (refer to accompanying documents) comes from 61010-1, not ISO 3864, which merely calls the symbol General warning, caution, risk of danger. That is, the official meaning assigned to the symbol in 3864 does NOT include the concept of refering to separate documents. Mike Sherman FSI International --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
Re: Risk assessment
Deep within a very interesting paper on EMC and Functional Safety by the IEE at http://www.iee.org.uk/PAB/EMC/core.htm in section 13.5 (page 49 on my copy) are pretty classic descriptions of probability and severity. These probably are descendents of MILSTD1442, and are probably also treated in EN1050. By the way, I ran across this when it was mentioned at www.conformity.com, a quite useful site, and one at which you can sign up for a weekly email of conformity issues. Mike Sherman FSI International --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
Re: Rechargeable Batteries
In a message dated 11/23/2000 5:50:28 PM Central Standard Time, cdup...@cs.com writes: The short circuit thing is interesting. My son has a radio controlled car with a 7.2V NiCad battery pack. The short circuit current was enough to melt the PVC insulation on the battery wires, 1.5mm^2, and I measured it subsequently at 82Amps. You could probably start a European car with one of those! A local store had a fire 5 years ago that they say was traced to a rechargeable hand drill battery in a bin for recycled batteries. I believe that 12V batteries were commone then; now I understand how it could have started a fire! Mike Sherman FSI International --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
Re: Concrete as an insulator???
Properly poured and cured concrete can still pass water. This is why the Uniform Building Code requires pressure-treated wood for wood in contact with basement floors, unless a separate barrier (i.e., in addition to the concrete) has been installed. Mike Sherman FSI International - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, jim_bac...@monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators).
Re: White neutrals in Europe
The referenced NFPA 70 section 400-22c seems to apply only to appliances with jacketed cords. What about industrial equipment? Mike Sherman FSI International In a message dated 4/19/1999 1:32:11 PM Central Daylight Time, robe...@ma.ultranet.com writes: About twenty years ago, the a group in the cable and computer industries gathered together all the colors used worldwide for conductor identification and tried to come up with a worldwide compromise. The light blue(neutral), brown (phase), and green/yellow (earth) were the best choice to avoid miswiring somewhere in the world. The US NEC was changed specifically to clarify this compromise (ref. NFPA 70 clause 400-22c), taking light blue as close to white or gray. You can probably get away with sending the US customary colors (white, black, green) to some countries, but you will have to specifically check codes in each case. Don't think an answer from one European country will answer for all of Europe. Note: NFPA is a US originated organization working to promote itself internationally, but does not apply to Europe except in some specific cases of harmonization. The absence of a European Norm does not mean no laws apply. National or local laws would be applicable. Since we have a well researched solution, why fight it? Misunderstandings when it comes to wiring power cords can be lethal, a terrible price to pay for getting away with something less. Bob Johnson Crane, Lauren wrote: Is it acceptable to ship equipment to Europe with neutral conductors (hook up wire) that is white, particularly if the ends are marked with the letter 'N' ? It seems to me that this would be acceptable to both the Machinery Directive and the Low Voltage Directive. Neither of these directives have a requirement for wire color in their Essential Requirements. Marking neutrals in this manner conforms to NFPA-79, an appropriate, though US National, design standard for large semiconductor manufacturing equipment. Conforming to NFPA-79, I think, demonstrates adequately addressing electrical hazards to the extent of the concern of the Machinery Directive and Low Voltage Directive EN 60204 requires that neutrals be colored light blue ONLY IF COLOR IS USED TO IDENTIFY THEM. Quoting section 15.2.3 Where a circuit includes a neutral conductor identified by colour, the colour shall be light blue Note that the definitions section of EN 60204 (3.38) says that the neutral conductor is assigned the symbol 'N'. This is echoed in EN60439 Specification for Low voltage switch gear and control gear assemblies Part 1. Specification for type-tested and partially type-tested assemblies. section 7.6.5.2 which says in part Any neutral conductor of the main circuit should be readily distinguishable by shape, location, marking or colour... I would be interested to know if anyone has experiences with this issue. Thanks in advance. Lauren Crane Eaton Corporation lcr...@bev.etn.com - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, j...@gwmail.monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators).
Re: General Product Safety Directive
Try looking for Directive 85/374. As I recall, it applies to consumer products. Mike Sherman FSI International msher...@fsi-intl.com - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, j...@gwmail.monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators).
Title for ENV 50204?
Quick question: what's the title/subject matter of ENV 50204? thanks! Mike Sherman FSI International miksher...@aol.com or msher...@fsi-intl.com
CBEMA Curve and IEEE 446 Orange Book
Quick quiz time: What does CBEMA stand for on the voltage sag and drop-out curves, such as in the IEEE 446 orange book and other places? Someone here at work asked me, and I'm stumped! thanks! Mike Sherman FSI International miksher...@aol.com
Re: transportation environmental condition
In a message dated 98-03-09 15:13:04 EST, dmck...@paragon-networks.com writes: Ok, this is rather old but the atmosphere is still pretty much the same. Assuming your standing at sea level with 1 atmosphere pressure and +15C temp and you start to rise in altitude, you'll have roughly dependent upon alot of other factors ... AltitudeTemperature Pressure Approx Ratio of (feet) F Clb/ft^2 Altitude to sea level 0 + 59+ 15 2.12 x 10^3 0 20,000 - 12- 24 9.73 x 10^2 1/2 40,000 - 70- 57 3.93 x 10^2 1/5 60,000 - 70- 57 1.51 x 10^2 1/10 80,000 - 70- 57 5.81 x 10 1/50 100,000 - 41- 41 2.31 x 10 1/100 Assuming that you won't be shipping anything in an unpressurized cabin much above 60,000 ft, then testing for temp = -70C, pressure = (14.7 lb/sq.in.)/10 = 1.47 lb/sq.in. should do it. Speaking of humidity at temperatures near or below freezing doesn't really mean anything. -- From: regr...@esaote.com To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: transportation environmental condition Date: Monday, March 09, 1998 8:43 AM Hello all! Does anybody know the foreseeable environmental condition (temperature, humidity, pressure) you have during transportation of a device on a plane? Of course they depend on flight heigth, but is it possible to get rough, common-sense data for the design of packaging? Many thanks Massimo --- ESAOTE S.p.A. Massimo Polignano Research Product Development Regulatory Affairs Via di Caciolle,15 tel:+39.55.4229402 I- 50127 Florencefax:+39.55.4223305 e-mail: regr...@esaote.com If you're speaking of CARGO compartment conditions, I believe that those are pressurized and heated to about 50 degrees F on passenger planes (otherwise, I suspect, passengers would get upset about their freeze-dried pets and luggage). Does anyone know of any standard conditions for cargo compartments? Mike Sherman FSI International msher...@fsi-intl.com [miksher...@aol.com]
Re: Do you need a license
In a message dated 98-01-06 04:09:12 EST, phil_f...@uk.xyratex.com writes: Paul Rampelbergh wrote: Is there a need to have a license to posses and operate EMC measurement tools? In the UK... none that I know of. -- Regards, Phil Ford phil_f...@uk.xyratex.com tel +44 (0)1705 443255fax +44 (0)1705 499315 Xyratex, Langstone Road, Havant, PO9 1SA, United Kingdom http://www.xyratex.com/ Be careful here if you're doing in situ RF immunity tests, i.e., outside of an anechoic chamber or other Faraday cage. In the USA, at least, this can get you into frequencies and powers that technically require licenses. Mike Sherman FSI International miksher...@aol.com (612) 361-8140
