Re: [PSES] Big Boot from List Server

[Sundstrom, Mike]

I got this email for the first time last night. It says I’m unsubscribed now?
So my main question is, have I actually been unsubscribed or is this a bogus 
email?

Enquiring minds want to know.

Thanks,

Michael Sundstrom
Garmin Compliance Engineer
2-2605
(913) 440 1540
KB5UKT

"We call it theory when we know much about something but nothing works,
and practice when everything works but nobody knows why."  -- Albert 
Einstein

From: Nyffenegger, Dave 
Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2019 10:16 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Big Boot from List Server

CAUTION - EXTERNAL EMAIL: Do not click any links or open any attachments unless 
you trust the sender and know the content is safe.




I received the same systematic notification last night as everyone else and 
have not done anything with it.  I am receiving email today but I don’t think 
my post from earlier this morning went through.  So we’ll see if this reply 
goes through or not.

-Dave

From: Brian Kunde [mailto:bkundew...@gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2019 11:05 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] Big Boot from List Server

Since the first of the year, I have been having trouble maintaining my 
subscription to this List Server. According to those who administrate this, the 
problems are all at our end but our eMail Administrator looked into it and said 
the problem that is being reported is outside our control (Phishing).

So in early April, I switched to my Gmail account thinking that this move 
should resolve all the issues. Nope. Today I was booted again for 2 
undeliverable emails.

The problem is not my posts because I haven't posted since my last 
re-subscription.  I don't know what else to try.

Is anyone else having similar troubles? Any suggestions other than just 
re-subscribing every few weeks?

I appreciate your input.

The Other Brian
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[PSES] Marine Safety question

[Sundstrom, Mike]

Hello group,
I have a question about IEC/EN 60950-22 and if it applies to equipment mounted 
on non-SOLAS marine vessels?


Thanks,

Michael Sundstrom
Garmin Compliance Engineer
(913) 440 1540
KB5UKT

"Never give up on a dream just because of the time it will take to accomplish 
it.
The time will pass anyway."
Earl Nightingale




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Re: [PSES] Quasipeak definition

[Sundstrom, Mike]

Dieter,
Peak detection is like the barn door is wide open into the analyzer.
QP detection is like the small door in the barn door is the only part open.

Thanks,

Michael Sundstrom
Garmin Compliance Engineer
2-2606
(913) 440-1540
KB5UKT

"We call it theory when we know much about something but nothing works,
and practice when everything works but nobody knows why."  -- Albert 
Einstein

From: Paasche, Dieter [mailto:dieter.paas...@christiedigital.com]
Sent: Monday, July 31, 2017 9:35 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] Quasipeak definition

How would you define the Quasipeak detector to somebody that is not EMC 
knowledgeable.


Sincerely,

Dieter Paasche
Senior Product Developer, Electrical
CHRISTIE
809 Wellington Street North
Kitchener, ON N2G 4Y7
Phone: 519-744-8005 ext.7211
www.christiedigital.com

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>

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[PSES] EN 55020

[Sundstrom, Mike]

Hello everyone,
It has been suggested to me that EN 55020 is withdrawn.
I have searched the standards of these directives:
2014/53/EU  RE_D
2014/30/EU  EMC
2014/35/EU  LVD
and I cannot find it listed so does this mean it is gone?

Thanks for any and all help,

Michael Sundstrom
Garmin Compliance Engineer
2-2606
(913) 440-1540
KB5UKT

"Never give up on a dream just because of the time it will take to accomplish 
it.
The time will pass anyway."
Earl Nightingale




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[PSES] Marine Radar test labs for ETSI EN 302 248

[Sundstrom, Mike]

Hello everyone,
I'm looking for test labs which can test to the Marine Radar standard of EN 302 
248 (RE_D version).

Any leads greatly appreciated!

Thanks,

Michael Sundstrom
Garmin Compliance Engineer
2-2606
(913) 440-1540
KB5UKT

"Never give up on a dream just because of the time it will take to accomplish 
it.
The time will pass anyway."
Earl Nightingale




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[PSES] RE_D question Marine Product

[Sundstrom, Mike]

Hello everyone,
I've been asked if EN 60945 will be required for CE marking a RE_D Marine 
product?

I don't think so, I'm looking for guidance on this one.
I'm thinking if you meet all applicable standards listed under RE_D you are 
done.
Have I missed something?

Thanks,

Michael Sundstrom
Garmin Compliance Engineer
2-2606
(913) 440-1540
KB5UKT

"Never give up on a dream just because of the time it will take to accomplish 
it.
The time will pass anyway."
Earl Nightingale




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[PSES] EU Requirements question

[Sundstrom, Mike]

Hello everyone,
I have a question regarding the shipment of customer bought unit (old 
compliance before RE_D) back to the EU after RE_D.

If a customer ships in old compliant equipment for repair how do I get it back 
to them in the EU if it isn't compliant with the new standards now in effect 
(RE_D)?

What directive/standard allows this?

Thanks,

Michael Sundstrom
Garmin Compliance Engineer
2-2606
(913) 440-1540
KB5UKT

"Never give up on a dream just because of the time it will take to accomplish 
it.
The time will pass anyway."
Earl Nightingale




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Re: [PSES] EMC co-location distance question

[Sundstrom, Mike]

Regan,
In regards to the daisy chaining:
Hook up equipment (daisy chaining) until such a time as you don't get a 2 dB 
increase of any unwanted signals. I think this is in ANSI or CISPR?
Everyone,
What am I remembering partly here?


Thanks,

Michael Sundstrom
Garmin Compliance Engineer
2-2606
(913) 440-1540
KB5UKT

"We call it theory when we know much about something but nothing works,
and practice when everything works but nobody knows why."  -- Albert 
Einstein

From: Regan Arndt [mailto:re...@empowermicro.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2017 11:50 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] EMC co-location distance question

Hi Bill. Thanks for this great info! Much appreciated.

The second part of my original email was merely philosophical discussion 
points. Let me clarify. I would love to hear what people think:


1. How many different types of ancillary equipment shall you test with your 
main EUT? i.e. PCs or laptops with HDMI & USB ports..the sky's the limit as 
to the myriad of devices that now can be connected. Where does one 'stop'?

a. Also, not all devices (that claim to be Class B) are noise free. I've 
personally experienced extremely noisy devices using a reputable brand name 
(yes, FCC logo on the device), but had to exchange it for their competitor to 
ensure no unintentional emissions, so my main EUT passes. (Moral of the 
storydon't believe everything you read on the label - lol)


2. Another related question: what about identical devices that can be daisy 
chained? i.e. some devices allow a daisy chain of up to 12 or more. (i.e. 
telecom trunk card). Does one use the chamber table as the determination for 
the quantity of daisy chained samples to test? Or does one compile all the max 
# of daisy chained devices on the table despite the congestion of I/O & power 
cables (not recommended)? Or is there a rule of thumb that one shall prove that 
there will not be an increase in emissions past a certain number of devices? 
(The latter is my preference).

Thoughts?

From: Bill Stumpf [mailto:bstu...@dlsemc.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2017 6:54 AM
To: Regan Arndt >; 
EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: RE: EMC co-location distance question

Regan,
I'm not sure I understand your question correctly, but I will try to provide an 
answer.  ANSI C63.4 is used when testing for FCC part 15 subpart B compliance 
for unintentional radiators. When testing a table-top system, the collocated 
equipment should be spaced at 10cm, unless this is not typical of normal 
operation. If so, then the EUT and its accessories/peripheral devices should be 
placed as they would be in typical applications.  It is important to read the 
text of the ANSI standard, as it goes into great detail on how to set up and 
select accessories for testing.  The drawings are for general reference only 
and the text always takes precedence. As for EN/CISPR standards, they mostly 
accept similar setup conditions to ANSI C63.4, but you will have to verify the 
specific requirements in each standard.   The <20cm you refer to was at one 
time unofficially (FCC) considered the distance for collocation of transmitter 
antennas, but this is no longer the case.  The FCC considers that two 
transmitters/antennas are collocated if they are in the same product / 
enclosure.  I hope this helps.

Bill

From: Regan Arndt [mailto:re...@empowermicro.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2017 1:50 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] EMC co-location distance question

Greetings members,

Can anyone shed any light on what ANSI defines as the max distance/limit of a 
'co-located' piece of ancillary equipment or other support equipment (on the 
table) to the main EUT being tested for FCC Part 15 class B for 'unintentional 
radiators'. I seem to recall 20 cm but I think this was referring to 
'intentional' radiators.

Is there a similar requirement in the EMC directive and/or EN/CISPR standards? 
Or is this really dictated on your recommended set-up? Shall that device be 
removed from the test bed if typical installation indicates that it will be 
greater than 20cm from the main EUT?

I believe that the set-up in ANSI only showed the PC, printer, mouse, keyboard 
& monitor but that's it. There are so many other/different electronic devices 
that connect to a laptop/PC/other, etc. (i.e. smart phone) these days, it is 
not viable for anyone to test all devices/configurations. I understand that one 
must use good judgment and exercise due diligence but there must be a limit. 
Agree? Some of these electronic devices state compliance to Class B, it may 
still have interference with another closely co-located device because they did 
not test it fully to the myriad of other electronic devices out there that it 
could be connected to. There is no guarantee per se.

Can anyone comment? Thanks 

Re: [PSES] Conformity assessment under RED

[Sundstrom, Mike]

Everyone,
I would opinion that the TV is a broadcast receiver and therefor it falls under 
RE-D.

Thanks,

Michael Sundstrom
Garmin Compliance Engineer
2-2606
(913) 440-1540
KB5UKT

"We call it theory when we know much about something but nothing works,
and practice when everything works but nobody knows why."  -- Albert 
Einstein

From: Mike Sherman - Original Message - [mailto:msherma...@comcast.net]
Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2017 9:52 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Conformity assessment under RED

Seems to me that IR does not communicate in the radio frequency range, but BT 
and RF do, so I would say IR is out of RED scope but BT and RF are within scope.

What opinions do others have?

Mike Sherman
Graco Inc.


From: "Scott Xe" >
To: "EMC-PSTC" >
Sent: Wednesday, March 1, 2017 8:21:14 AM
Subject: Re: [PSES] Conformity assessment under RED

For the traditional TV that comes with an infrared remote controller and latest 
TV that comes with BT or RF remote controller, does it fall into RED scope?

Thanks,

Scott




From: Scott Xe >
Date: Tuesday, 21 February 2017 at 12:25 AM
To: Michael Derby >, 
>
Subject: Re: [PSES] Conformity assessment under RED

Hi Michael,

Thanks for your kind reminder!  The NB also suggests to use the draft EN 303 
345 (best available) for Radio Receivers.

One query about TV, as most of digital TVs still have analogue part (although 
the transmission had been switched off in lots of areas).  Is there any 
additional standard for this part?

Regards,

Scott




From: Michael Derby >
Date: Tuesday, 21 February 2017 at 12:05 AM
To: 'Scott Xe' >, 
>
Subject: RE: [PSES] Conformity assessment under RED

Hi Scott,

Please don’t forget that for FM Radio Receivers, the Article 3.2 standard (EN 
303 345) is not expected to be cited on the RED OJ until September 2017; so 
those broadcast sound receivers could not be assessed without the use of a 
Notified Body.

For TV, it could be different because some of the standards (such as EN 303 
340) are already listed on the RED OJ.

Thanks,

Michael.



From: Scott Xe [mailto:scott...@gmail.com]
Sent: 19 February 2017 23:00
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Conformity assessment under RED

For TV/Radio receivers and BT/Wifi enabled units, it can use the HSs in 
RED/LVD/EMC of OJEU without the use of NB as per the interpretation of below.

Thanks,

Scott



On Wed, Jan 4, 2017 at 6:00 AM, Michael Derby 
> wrote:
Hi Nick,

You are completely correct.

Actually, this approach (NB is only needed for deviations in testing to 
Articles 3.2 and 3.3; but not needed for deviations in testing for 3.1) was 
apparently the original intention with 1999/5/EC, but it was not correctly or 
clearly written.   2014/53/EU corrects that.

Thanks,

Michael.



-Original Message-
From: Nick Williams 
[mailto:nick.willi...@conformance.co.uk]
Sent: 04 January 2017 12:18
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] Conformity assessment under RED

Happy New Year, EMC-PSTC listers!

2014/15/EU article 17 separates the conformity assessment procedures for 
essential requirement 3.1 (safety and EMC) from those which are applied for 
essential requirements 3.2 and 3.3 (spectrum efficiency and special 
provisions). Notified Body intervention is required for ER’s 3.2 and 3.3 if the 
manufacturer has not applied harmonised standards, but no such requirement is 
applied for ER 3.1.

My reading of this is that the manufacturer has complete freedom of approach 
under RED for safety and EMC compliance in exactly the same way that they do 
under the LVD and EMC Directive, and can self-certifiy even if they do not 
apply harmonised standards, irrespective of whether or not they are required to 
involve a NoBo for compliance with ER’s 3.2 & 3.3.

This is not how things worked under 1999/5/EC.

Is my interpretation correct, and if not, why not?

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Re: [PSES] CORRECTION (wrong page) Passive Loop Emissions [General Use]

[Sundstrom, Mike]

Not much different from any other in situ testing I've ever done. Guess I 
looked like a mad scientist and didn't know it.

Thanks,

Michael Sundstrom
Garmin Compliance Engineer
2-2606
(913) 440-1540
KB5UKT

"We call it theory when we know much about something but nothing works,
and practice when everything works but nobody knows why."  -- Albert 
Einstein

-Original Message-
From: Cortland Richmond [mailto:k...@earthlink.net]
Sent: Monday, February 27, 2017 8:14 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] CORRECTION (wrong page) Passive Loop Emissions [General Use]

On 2/27/2017 7:53 PM, Brent DeWitt wrote:
> I think Ken's rational makes sense to me, since the 51.5 is derived from 
> 20*log(377).
>
>
Sure, but now we're back to how close we are -- wavelengths -- to the emitter. 
20*log(??)

Low frequencies can be tricky,  and I once had to double-check a test lab (not 
yours) results at a vendor, dragging the EUT out to their parking lot then 
wheeling a cart with a 6510 loop antenna, battery, AOR
AR5000 receiver and RMS voltmeter [all mine] away to see  how fast the signal 
dropped with distance compared to 3m.

A fun time was NOT had, but I probably came across as a mad scientist.
Again. At least no one ran out of a chamber...


Cortland Richmond KA5S

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[PSES] Job openings

[Sundstrom, Mike]

Hello group,
I have been told we have two compliance opening here at Garmin in Olathe, 
Kansas.

Contact:
Mr. Douglas Kealey
Title: Manager Environmental & Regulatory Affairs
Extension: +19134405210 x5210
Email: doug.kea...@garmin.com



Thanks,

Michael Sundstrom
Garmin Compliance Engineer
2-2606
(913) 440-1540
KB5UKT

"Never give up on a dream just because of the time it will take to accomplish 
it.
The time will pass anyway."
Earl Nightingale




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[PSES] EN 55020

[Sundstrom, Mike]

Esteemed enlightened colleagues,
Has EN 55020 been given a date of withdrawal?  I ask in relation to RED 
(2014-53-EU) for a radio product with AM/FM/Bluetooth(r) ???

Thanks,

Michael Sundstrom
Garmin Compliance Engineer
(913) 440-1540
KB5UKT

"Never give up on a dream just because of the time it will take to accomplish 
it.
The time will pass anyway."
Earl Nightingale




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Re: [PSES] Fwd: ESD, part of our training Enjoy!

[Sundstrom, Mike]

Courtland,
Or like when my boss said he had never seen anything effected by the VCP in an 
ESD test and I showed him how it knocked out my USB mouse at 8KV contact to VCP 
every 5th hit or so. From over 10 feet away. My laptop didn't last much longer 
either, I'm wondering if it is connected to all my ESD exposure err testing?

Thanks,

Michael Sundstrom
Garmin Compliance Engineer
2-2606
(913) 440-1540
KB5UKT

"We call it theory when we know much about something but nothing works,
and practice when everything works but nobody knows why."  -- Albert 
Einstein

-Original Message-
From: Cortland Richmond [mailto:k...@earthlink.net]
Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2016 2:00 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Fwd: ESD, part of our training Enjoy!

On 11/1/2016 8:53 AM, N. Shani wrote:
> Well, I don't know if he's an idiot or a fool:

About 30 years ago, we got a brand-new ESD test gun at Wang Laboratories in 
Massachusetts, and I found it necessary to prove that the simulator delivered a 
similar waveform as a human.

I got to be the human.

My technique was to discharge the tip of the gun to a Pellegrini target feeding 
a 1 GHz delayed sweep 'scope.  These were the days when one needed a Polaroid 
camera (with 3000 speed film) whose shutter was triggered from the sweep.

We had a linoleum floor with no attention paid to ESD discharge, so it was 
pretty easy to charge myself up to 5 kV and discharge the potential from my 
outstretched finger to the target.  None of us will be surprised that it was a 
very close resemblance to the waveform the simulator produced.

However… A lot of us got into this line of work by playing.  Yes even as I 
dictate this, I can hear people thinking "Oh, that's what he's going
to do!"   We'll see.

I put the sharp-pointed contact discharge tip on the simulator, and set up the 
gun at 25 KV continuous, aiming it to the mechanical doors some 5 m away and 
locking down the trigger.

When high-ranking visitors decided to drop by and interrupt every kind of test, 
some of them classified, they would perforce have to walk through the area 
iwhere ions were most plentiful, and the accumulated charge would make them 
jump.  This had the desired effect.

The number of visitors dropped precipitously.

Did you get it right?


Cortland Richmond

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Re: [PSES] Fire ants

[Sundstrom, Mike]

What is Terro?

Thanks,

Michael Sundstrom
Garmin Compliance Engineer
2-2606
(913) 440-1540
KB5UKT

"We call it theory when we know much about something but nothing works,
and practice when everything works but nobody knows why."  -- Albert 
Einstein

-Original Message-
From: John Woodgate [mailto:jmw1...@btinternet.com]
Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2016 10:40 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Fire ants

Two to three years to evolve a resistant strain. Then what? Plutonium?

With best wishes DESIGN IT IN! OOO – Own Opinions Only www.jmwa.demon.co.uk J M 
Woodgate and Associates Rayleigh England

Sylvae in aeternum manent.


-Original Message-
From: Nyffenegger, Dave [mailto:dave.nyffeneg...@bhemail.com]
Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2016 1:44 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Fire ants

Just keep some Terro inside the electrical boxes.  Can't imagine the wildlife 
peoples having  an issue with that, not they would ever know.

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Re: [PSES] outdoor EMC testing - questions

[Sundstrom, Mike]

Ralph,
Back in a previous lifetime (at a test lab) I had a similar EUT to test. You 
need to setup your antenna every 20 degrees or 30 degrees or 45 degrees around 
the outside of the EUT at a 3 meter or 10 meters measurement distance. You need 
to tailor the setup to the space you have. You need to stay between any 
external metal and the EUT mass. You need to discuss this with whomever is 
signing off on these measurements. They may want more or less test data.

You also need to raise and lower the antenna from 1 to 4 m at each azimuth and 
each polarity of the scan antenna. You should also scan from 30MHz to 1GHz 
minimum, this would also need to be discussed with the sign off group. The best 
scan you could do is 30MHz to 18GHz with the Bi-con (30-300MHz) and a log 
periodic (300 - 1000MHz) and a double ridge horn antenna (1 - 18GHz) . That 
would give you a good understanding of just what you might see radiating in the 
real world installation.

I wouldn't worry about the ground plane because it wouldn't be done that way if 
you did it in situ (on site after installation).

Are you not going to do any in situ testing on some of the sites after 
installation?

Thanks,

Michael Sundstrom
Garmin Compliance Engineer
2-2606
(913) 440-1540
KB5UKT

"We call it theory when we know much about something but nothing works,
and practice when everything works but nobody knows why."  -- Albert 
Einstein

-Original Message-
From: Ralph McDiarmid [mailto:ralph.mcdiar...@schneider-electric.com]
Sent: Tuesday, July 19, 2016 12:01 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] outdoor EMC testing - questions

Dear group,

We are planning to do radiated emissions on a large EUT (a large power 
converter) and use a portion of our outdoor, asphalt parking lot as an open 
area test site.
We plan to walk an antenna around the EUT, since the EUT and its cabling are 
too large to rotate on a platform.   It will be installed in a way very similar 
to actual use in the field, so I think this is quite close to in-situ testing.

1. has anyone tried this?
2. apart from a site attenuation test, and perhaps a ground plane metal mesh, 
what else would be needed?

We have facility filters for AC and for DC and voltage probe, current probe, 
one "BiConilog" antenna and a nice new SA.  We are working with a US EMC 
company, and they are a Notified Body under the MRA.

Thanks,

Ralph McDiarmid
Product Compliance
Engineering
Solar Business
Schneider Electric





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Re: [PSES] Power Supply Safety approval

[Sundstrom, Mike]

ghe''or bet pagh jIH

Thanks,

Michael Sundstrom
Garmin Compliance Engineer
2-2606
(913) 440-1540
KB5UKT

"We call it theory when we know much about something but nothing works,
and practice when everything works but nobody knows why."  -- Albert 
Einstein

-Original Message-
From: Brian O'Connell [mailto:oconne...@tamuracorp.com]
Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2016 12:45 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Power Supply Safety approval

If your end-use box is considered Class III construction, and an EPS is Class 
II and LPS, then the C/C table in the CBTR could (if the CBTL is in agreement) 
specify EPS by rating only, but would not fly for the EMC report. And some 
CBTLs will still want to specify EPS by mfr/model and the rating which is not 
unreasonable if they provide rationale. The premise is that a Class II EPS 
where output has been assessed for Class 2/LPS is not considered a shock or a 
fire hazard. That said, would be within reasonable 'due diligence' by the CBTL 
to repeat heating/OL/SC for the EPS. And, as Mr.Woodgate said, would nice to 
verify that they are making the unit per the report.

Also should be noted that the IECEE has, for some time now, been making 
disparaging comments about C/C tables that list stuff 'generically' rather than 
the specific mfr/model. There are some interesting reads for the assessment of 
component certification in the CTL decision sheets and UL PAGs for clause 1.5 .

Still want to know if TC108 will be considering any Klingon national 
differences for 62368-1.

Brian

-Original Message-
From: McBurney, Ian [mailto:ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com]
Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2016 1:01 AM
To: Brian O'Connell; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: RE: Power Supply Safety approval

Hello Brian.

The wall wart psu is class II construction and is LPS/LCC.
The CB report for the power supply was issued under the responsibility of UL 
and specifically lists the power supply.
The report details the construction of transformer which is class B.
The report also has photos of the internal construction of the power supply.
Although the product it powers is a digital product I would say it is 
multimedia as its primary function is audio.
My understanding of 60065 is that if a supply meets the requirements of 60950 
and is used in accordance with its technical specification then no internal 
examination of the supply is required.
Is this correct?

Many thanks in advance.

Ian McBurney
Design & Compliance Engineer.

Allen & Heath Ltd.
Kernick Industrial Estate,
Penryn, Cornwall. TR10 9LU. UK
T: 01326 372070
E: ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com


-Original Message-
From: Brian O'Connell [mailto:oconne...@tamuracorp.com]
Sent: 15 June 2016 18:25
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Power Supply Safety approval

Responses to various thread posts below. Assumption is that the wall wart is 
not certified as a component, but as end-use item, and is Class II construction.

1. " A example: the 60950 power supply does not necessarily meet insulation 
requirements (among other requirements) of the 60065."

Class II construction per latest edition of IEC60950-1 meets  IEC60065 8th ed, 
but may be differences in di-electric withstand requirements. Clause 8 
indicates some special stuff for transformer testing of multi-layer sheet 
stuff, but is moot because both 60950-1 and 60065 both point to IEC61558-1, so 
test and construction requirements essentially same for both standards. For 
North America, these power supplies should have UL1310/CSA No.223 certification 
where LPS rating required, which meets or exceeds IEC60065 construction 
requirements. Class I construction is not typical for 'walwart' p/s, but 
UL60065, based on 8th ed, allow BI where ground bound properly tested and 
constructed.

2. "The 60950 compatible PSU normally relies on Basic Insulation and Protective 
Earthing of the secondary voltage, where your product may have a different 
configuration."

8th edition allows secondary reference to P.E. In any case, this construction 
concern would only be applicable to a component p/s that is built into the 
end-use equipment.

3. " CB documentation does not often list the insulation properties 
Basic/Double/Reinforced. This may have been a reason for further investigation."

Have never seen an IEC60950-1 power supply CBTR that did not define and 
describe the EIS and other isolative components. There are specific line items 
in TRF where this information is required.

4. "Presumably, they were not confident that what was in the sample was the 
same as what was in the CB-certificated sample. Unfortunately, that is very 
often the case."

Inexorably correct. Ya know, due diligence and all of that rot. Would be loath 
to do business with a CBTL that did not require a sample to fondle and gaze at.

5. ".. submitted to IEC 62368-1 instead, pointing to the section in 4.1.1 that 
states that components that comply with IEC 60950-1 or IEC 60065 

Re: [PSES] Marine Equipment for CE

[Sundstrom, Mike]

John,
EN60945 is your go to standard for marine EU.

Thanks,

Michael Sundstrom
Garmin Compliance Engineer
2-2606
(913) 440-1540
KB5UKT

"Never give up on a dream just because of the time it will take to accomplish 
it.
The time will pass anyway."
Earl Nightingale

From: John Allen [mailto:jral...@productsafetyinc.com]
Sent: Monday, February 01, 2016 6:12 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] Marine Equipment for CE


Hi,



I found the Marine Equipment Directive 2014/90/EU.



For Standards it refers to IMO Standards.  In searching through the IMO 
Standards, they seem to be more guidelines for how to use equipment vs 
evaluating the equipment for safety, etc.



Any guidance in finding Standards for Marine Equipment would be appreciated.



Best Regards,



John Allen
-


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Re: [PSES] Highest clock frequency in a device.

[Sundstrom, Mike]

Gary,
Look at 47CFR15.33.

Here I cut a piece out for you:
investigation. (b) For unintentional radiators: (1) Except as otherwise 
indicated in paragraphs (b)(2) or (b)(3) of this section, for an unintentional 
radiator, including a digital device, the spectrum shall be investigated from 
the lowest radio frequency signal generated or used in the device, without 
going below the lowest frequency for which a radiated emission limit is 
specified, up to the frequency shown in the following table: Highest frequency 
generated or used in the device or on which the device operates or tunes (MHz) 
Upper frequency of measurement range (MHz) Below 1.705 
... 30. 1.705-108 .. 1000. 
108-500 . 2000. 500-1000 
... 5000. Above 1000 ... 
5th harmonic of the highest frequency or 40 GHz, whichever is lower.

Thanks,

Michael Sundstrom
Garmin Compliance Engineer
2-2606
(913) 440-1540
KB5UKT

"Never give up on a dream just because of the time it will take to accomplish 
it.
The time will pass anyway."
Earl Nightingale

From: Gary McInturff [mailto:gary.mcintu...@esterline.com]
Sent: Thursday, January 28, 2016 1:16 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] Highest clock frequency in a device.

I was looking through standards I have but can't find an absolute description 
of highest clock frequency.

The overall device has clocks well below 105MHz, the point at which the 
spectrum above 1 GHZ must be investigated during radiated emissions.
However one of the IC's has an internal frequency well above that.

My understanding of highest clock would include this IC internal, contained 
within the chip and not provided to any I/O pins.  Others disagree, but I can't 
find any explicit documentation that defines this.
Can anyone pin point a textual definition?

Thank you

-


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Re: [PSES] Preselector requirement in ANSIC63.4 -low PRF

[Sundstrom, Mike]

So the SA is not in overload, which could give a wrong amplitude otherwise.

Thanks,

Michael Sundstrom
Garmin Compliance Engineer
2-2606
(913) 440-1540
KB5UKT

"Never give up on a dream just because of the time it will take to accomplish 
it.
The time will pass anyway."
Earl Nightingale

From: Grasso, Charles [mailto:charles.gra...@echostar.com]
Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2015 1:53 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] Preselector requirement in ANSIC63.4 -low PRF

Hell all,

ANSI C63 *requires* the use of a preselector on an SA when making QP 
measurements
of a signal with a low repetition rate (lower than 20Hz or less).  Does anyone 
know why?

Best Regards
Charles Grasso
Compliance Engineer
Echostar Communications
(w) 303-706-5467
(c) 303-204-2974
(t) 3032042...@vtext.com
(e) charles.gra...@echostar.com
(e2) chasgra...@gmail.com

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Re: [PSES] SV: [PSES] Stricter limits than legal (CISPR11, IEC, etc,) Where?

[Sundstrom, Mike]

Ed,
Some of the lamps have a warning to not use at USCG radio sites.

Thanks,

Michael Sundstrom
Garmin Compliance Engineer
2-2606
(913) 440-1540
KB5UKT

“Never give up on a dream just because of the time it will take to accomplish 
it.
The time will pass anyway.”
Earl Nightingale

From: Ed Price [mailto:edpr...@cox.net]
Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2015 10:21 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] SV: [PSES] Stricter limits than legal (CISPR11, IEC, etc,) 
Where?

The ARRL (American Radio Relay League, the US national ham radio club) has its 
own shielded enclosure  and EMI lab. They have recently tested agricultural 
"grow lights" and have found almost every sample exceeds CE limits (some by 
almost 60 dB). After no success in solving this condition with the 
manufacturers, the ARRL has submitted their data to the FCC and asked for 
recalls of the offending models. Hams also report problems with the switching 
power supplies associated with commercial LED light bulbs.

It will be interesting to see how the FCC reacts to a request to recall large 
volumes of consumer products; as far as I know, the last time the FCC was faced 
with controlling a large and uncaring market was back in the CB radio era of 
the 1970’s, and that didn’t work out very well at all.


Ed Price
WB6WSN
Chula Vista, CA USA


-Original Message-
From: CR [mailto:k...@earthlink.net]
Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2015 6:27 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] SV: [PSES] Stricter limits than legal (CISPR11, IEC, etc,) 
Where?



On 10/14/2015 10:25 PM, Ted Eckert wrote:

>

> It is fairly common to run into issues where one product causes

> interference where it shouldn’t.

>

> http://www.compliance-club.com/archive/old_archive/Bananaskins.htm

>



Do note that the archive only covers up to 2004.  I've had occasion to cite 
entry 3.



I suspect the relative scarcity of reported problems may be ascribed to 
proactive standards that are revised when the need becomes evident; one reason 
I got a contract in 2004 -- and why it was extended.



Those of us who are Amateur Radio operators will have perhaps gotten involved 
in the myriad issues of new technology versus existing. I filed comments in the 
FCC's rulemaking on  BPL (UK:PLT/PLC), which agency in the past has acted as if 
it had gotten orders to ignore some kinds of complaints -- a non-technical 
issue, eh?



Some complaints answer the "why margin?" question, if possibly for a different 
reason than why we sometimes want it.



About 15 years ago, residents of a New Jersey neighborhood started complaining 
about hearing a local AM station (really local: 10KW in the middle of the 
development) on their answering machines and telephones.The odd thing was that 
this  apparently coincided with its switch from  an "Easy Listening" music 
format to Korean language evangelism (I suspect a power increase as well).  In 
any case, when the customer ordered equipment for that neighborhood he could 
(and IMO

should) have considered proximity of pole-mounted power and other wiring to a 
high power RF source not anticipated by standards-writers.



Cortland Richmond



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Re: [PSES] Getting 2 emails for many posts on the forum - is it just me?

[Sundstrom, Mike]

And twice.

Thanks,

Michael Sundstrom
Garmin Compliance Engineer
2-2606
(913) 440-1540
KB5UKT

"Never give up on a dream just because of the time it will take to accomplish 
it.
The time will pass anyway."
Earl Nightingale

-Original Message-
From: John Woodgate [mailto:j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk]
Sent: Monday, September 14, 2015 1:50 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Getting 2 emails for many posts on the forum - is it just 
me?

In message
, dated Mon, 14 Sep 2015, John Allen 
 writes:

>I started noticing this happening a few days ago, and it has been
>consistent all today for posts from US contributors, but there seems to
>be about a 2 minute gap between the 1st post and the 2nd post  - but
>that does not seem to be happening from UK/European contributors, where
>I am getting only 1 post.
>
>Anyone have any idea why?

US posts are being monitored and relayed by aliens on an asteroid
111,160,000 miles away. You read it here first.
--
OOO - Own Opinions Only. With best wishes. See www.jmwa.demon.co.uk When I turn 
my back on the sun, it's to look for a rainbow John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and 
Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK

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[PSES] DAB Receiver

[Sundstrom, Mike]

Hello group,
I'm being ask what is the certification process for a DAB receiver?
I need to know the proper steps one must take to certify a DAB receiver?
Looking to go to EU / AS/NZ / Canada.
I've run across EN 50248:2001 anything more up to date I need to know about?



Thanks,

Michael Sundstrom
Garmin Compliance Engineer
2-2606
(913) 440-1540
KB5UKT

It's not what you look at that matters, it's what you see.
Henry David Thoreau




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[PSES] DAB RX

[Sundstrom, Mike]

Looking for a list of any EU standards on DAB receivers?

Thanks,

Michael Sundstrom
Garmin Compliance Engineer
KB5UKT




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Re: [PSES] EMC on Industrial Cut-Off Saws

[Sundstrom, Mike]

Yes well, I’m a compliance engineer and a Ham radio operator also! That goes 
far in my public standings I can tell you!

Thanks,

Michael Sundstrom
Garmin Compliance Engineer
2-2606
(913) 440-1540
KB5UKT

It's not what you look at that matters, it's what you see.
Henry David Thoreau

From: Michael Derby [mailto:micha...@acbcert.com]
Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2015 7:48 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] EMC on Industrial Cut-Off Saws

Ha ha ha.

You know you’re in a boring job when you pretend to be a drug dealer to enhance 
your social acceptability.   ☺



Michael Derby
Senior Regulatory Engineer
Director
ACB Europe

From: Kunde, Brian [mailto:brian_ku...@lecotc.com]
Sent: 04 February 2015 13:38
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORGmailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] EMC on Industrial Cut-Off Saws

I know what you mean. I just tell people I’m a drug dealer. That they 
understand. ☺

The Other Brian

From: Michael Derby [mailto:micha...@acbcert.com]
Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2015 4:45 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORGmailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] EMC on Industrial Cut-Off Saws

It would be disappointing if emissions from household items were ever fully 
eliminated because it’s the only way I can explain to people what I do for a 
living.

“What do you do…..”

“Well, you know that crackling noise you get from the radio when someone is 
using a hair dryer…..”

If they fix that, I’ll have to start talking about SAR levels and then I won’t 
get invited to dinner any more.


Michael.


Michael Derby
Senior Regulatory Engineer
Director
ACB Europe

From: Doug Powell [mailto:doug...@gmail.com]
Sent: 03 February 2015 15:22
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORGmailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] EMC on Industrial Cut-Off Saws

Same is true of other power tools, drills, vacuum cleaners, etc.  I believe 
‎the thinking is these are only intermittent use.


 - doug

Douglas Powell
http://www.linkedin.com/in/dougp01
From: Bill Stumpf
Sent: Tuesday, February 3, 2015 8:14 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORGmailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Reply To: Bill Stumpf
Subject: Re: [PSES] EMC on Industrial Cut-Off Saws


Based on inquiries I've made to the FCC  IC regarding digitally controlled 
power tools, the FCC currently exempts these devices from Part 15 technical 
regulations.  Industry Canada compliance testing should be done to ICES-001 
requirements.


Bill

From: Nyffenegger, Dave [mailto:dave.nyffeneg...@bhemail.com]
Sent: Monday, February 02, 2015 10:51 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORGmailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] EMC on Industrial Cut-Off Saws

Code of Federal Regulations (CFR) Title 47 Telecommunication Chapter 1 
Subchapter A Part 15
15.103 Exempted devices.
(c) A digital device used exclusively as industrial, commercial, or medical 
test equipment.

Sounds like it would be FCC part 15 exempt providing the user stops operating 
the device upon a finding by the Commission or its representative that the 
device is causing harmful interference.

Don’t know about Canada yet but they usually follow the US.

-Dave


From: Kunde, Brian [mailto:brian_ku...@lecotc.com]
Sent: Monday, February 02, 2015 5:12 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORGmailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] EMC on Industrial Cut-Off Saws

I am not at all familiar with this category of products so please excuse my 
ignorance which is an industrial cut-off saw with a 5hp electric motor for 
cutting steel rods, and such.

Most of these basic model saws have no high frequency devices and brushless AC 
motors so they do not generate EMI. However, the more expensive models have 
Inverters (Frequency Drives) to slow start/stop the motor and act as a break.

We evaluated a saw from a company who says they do not require EMC testing on 
their saws even when they use the Inverter, as long as they follow the 
installation instructions from the inverter manufacturer (yea, I just about 
fell out of my chair). We tested one of these saws and failed CISPR 11 Class A 
Conducted Emissions by 50db (if was a prototype saw not on the market).  How do 
these people sleep at night?

So here is my question. Does the US and Canada require Emissions testing on 
Industrial Saws?  Same question for Europe. I assume EN 55011 Class A is 
mandatory in Europe on such a devices.

Please confirm (sanity check).

Thanks,
The Other Brian



LECO Corporation Notice: This communication may contain confidential 
information intended for the named recipient(s) only. If you received this by 
mistake, please destroy it and notify us of the error. Thank you.
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Re: [PSES] air activated finger probes

[Sundstrom, Mike]

Lego's

www.lego.comhttp://www.lego.com

While at a previous job I had a fellow engineer who became the Lego Engineer. 
His main job was to support the reliability team do one off jobs like what 
you're talking about.

Michael Sundstrom
Garmin Compliance Engineer
2-2606
(913) 440-1540

It's not what you look at that matters, it's what you see.
Henry David Thoreau

From: Julian Jones [mailto:ju...@hursley-emc.co.uk]
Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2014 9:36 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] air activated finger probes

I am looking to make up a simple  pneumatic system to press a couple of keys on 
a keyboard and move a mouse.

Has anyone made up such a kit ?

Some years ago I looked at this and there seemed to be lots around, now 
searching on Google I can't find any,  or my search parameters are wrong.

Any input gratefully received.

Rgds

Julian




Julian Jones
Hursley EMC Services
Tel:   023 8027 
ddi:   023 8024 0851
Mob: 07787 523 607
julian.jo...@hursley-emc.co.ukmailto:julian.jo...@hursley-emc.co.uk
Trafalgar House, Trafalgar Close, Chandlers Ford
EASTLEIGH, Hampshire, SO53 4BW
Company Registration 3301279

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Re: [PSES] Human fingertip capacitance.

[Sundstrom, Mike]

In a long ago job I learned the two 480K Ohm resistors in the ESD gun ground 
lead was to simulate the human body (whole body). Something about shaping the 
current pulse or flow to ground?



Michael Sundstrom
Garmin Compliance Engineer
2-2606
(913) 440-1540

It's not what you look at that matters, it's what you see.
Henry David Thoreau

-Original Message-
From: Brian Oconnell [mailto:oconne...@tamuracorp.com]
Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2014 11:41 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Human fingertip capacitance.

Do not believe that it is the 'capacitance' of the human appendage per se, but 
the interference with the screen's field. Suspect that the Emperor's search 
engine would reveal much more, but an ap note used in a past project is here:

www.ti.com/lit/an/slaa363a/slaa363a.pdf

Brian

From: Gary McInturff [mailto:gary.mcintu...@esterline.com]
Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2014 9:14 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] Human fingertip capacitance.

Trying to set up a jig to test some capacitive touch-panels. It's an automated 
probe that disturbs the capacitive field of the sensor - but I'm clueless what 
kind of value to shoot for. I thought about the ESD gun capacitance but I don't 
know if that actually matches a human fingertip - or it's the whole body, or 
that the capacitance of the body of the ESD gun itself is used to calibrate to 
some human figure tip capacitance.

I've got some research to do but does anybody have a starting point and a 
reference for the capacitance of an average human fingertip. I have the EE 
working the design to go back to the component supplier but haven't heard back 
from them yet.
Thanks

Gary McInturff
Reliability/Compliance Engineer

Esterline Interface Technologies
Featuring
ADVANCED INPUT, GAMESMAN,
and LRE MEDICAL  products
600 W. Wilbur Avenue
Coeur d'Alene, ID  83815-9496
Toll Free: 800-444-5923 X1XXX
Tel:  (208) 635-8
Fax: (208) 635-8

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Re: [PSES] Buying Standards

[Sundstrom, Mike]

Marty McFly notes?


Michael Sundstrom
Garmin Compliance Engineer
2-2606
(913) 440-1540

It's not what you look at that matters, it's what you see.
Henery David Thoreau

From: ce-test, qualified testing bv - Gert Gremmen [mailto:g.grem...@cetest.nl]
Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2014 11:32 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Buying Standards

You found that in what standard   ;)
Gert

Van: Anthony Thomson [mailto:ton...@europe.com]
Verzonden: woensdag 24 september 2014 16:44
Aan: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORGmailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Onderwerp: Re: [PSES] Buying Standards

Hi Gert,

You did ask for the most economical source for standards and received a valid 
answer. EVS are used and trusted by thousands of standards purchasers, 
including me.

If however you are so concerned by monitoring and surveillance, then perhaps 
pay the extra and purchase paper copies by mail from BSI. As a precaution while 
using standards in this format, be sure to apply an aluminum foil, cranial 
neural oscillation attenuator to prevent remote electroencephalographic 
detection of any confidential information.
;-)

Tony

Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2014 at 2:16 PM
From: ce-test, qualified testing bv - Gert Gremmen 
g.grem...@cetest.nlmailto:g.grem...@cetest.nl
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORGmailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Buying Standards
Well there is Adobe and Fileopen in that chain, as the license basically
works with Adobe reader only.
Adobe is a well-known track everything internet operator.

And for those bodies. they act like commercial companies
Who looks over their shoulders BTW.?

Gert


-Original Message-
From: John Woodgate [mailto:j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk]
Sent: woensdag 24 september 2014 14:57
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORGmailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Buying Standards

In message 
FCA549BE3ECF9D4CB8CB8576837EA48920AA0D@ZEUS.cetest.localmailto:FCA549BE3ECF9D4CB8CB8576837EA48920AA0D@ZEUS.cetest.local,
dated Wed, 24 Sep 2014, ce-test, qualified testing bv - Gert Gremmen
g.grem...@cetest.nlmailto:g.grem...@cetest.nl writes:

 The single user version is not usable in a commercial environment, as
it phones home and might transfer information that is confidential to

my business operations.

Do you think a National Standards Body would have anything to do with
such malpractice?
--
OOO - Own Opinions Only. With best wishes. See 
www.jmwa.demon.co.ukhttp://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Quid
faciamus nisi sit?
John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK

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Re: [PSES] Failure of Radiated emission

[Sundstrom, Mike]

Are not forgetting site variations also?
I think the site attenuation has leeway also. I remember something like +8-0 
dB???


Michael Sundstrom
Garmin Compliance Engineer
2-2606
(913) 440-1540

Whatever your discipline, become a student of excellence in all things. Take 
every opportunity to observe people who manifest the qualities of mastery. 
These models of excellence will inspire you and guide you toward the 
fulfillment of your highest potential.
-- Tony Buzan and Michael Gelb,
authors

-Original Message-
From: dward [mailto:dw...@pctestlab.com]
Sent: Friday, September 05, 2014 11:16 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Failure of Radiated emission

One of the reasons, many years ago, that a 'standard' setup was determined in 
both CISPR and ANSI standards was to relieve the never ending always present 
constant manipulation of cables and equipment.  While the EUT is to be 
operating in a typical use scenario, the setup should be as depicted in the 
standard.  This includes cables being bundled correctly, draped correctly and 
arranged on the test table correctly.  Variation of this setup goes back to the 
1980s when the constant equipment variations.  Let's not go back there.


Dennis Ward
This communication and its attachements contain information from PCTEST 
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-Original Message-
From: Carpentier Kristiaan [mailto:kristiaan.carpent...@technicolor.com]
Sent: Friday, September 5, 2014 7:36 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] Failure of Radiated emission

Hi group,

A ITE product is tested to EN55022 Radiated emission with a well defined setup 
(cables, traffic, etc...) trying to find the worst case emissions and it passes.
I think finding the real worst case emission for all frequencies with one and 
the same set-up is in practice not possible in practice.

That same product is retested by a customer or in case of market surveillance 
campaigns, then it is most likely not tested with the same set-up and results 
may fail.
Would this be an issue or is it acceptable that it is retested with the same 
set-up as the initial testing? I refer to CISPR22, clause 8.4 that states that 
the operational conditions of the EUT shall be determined acc. to typical 
use.The operat mode and rationale shall be stated in the report.

So to me it looks sufficient to test a typical set-up, do your best to not make 
it best case and describe everything in the report.

Any other thoughts?

Best regards,
Kris Carpentier

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CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: 

[PSES] IEC/EN/UL/CSA 60950-1 (ed. 2) A2

[Sundstrom, Mike]

List members,
I'm having a hard time understanding how this safety standard can require 'all 
symbols' used on a product to be explained in the operators manual?
The non-safety symbols especially.
Anyone know of any IEC TC108 members I can email? I have a call into my 
overseas safety lab tonight.

Thanks,

Michael Sundstrom
Garmin Compliance Engineer
2-2606
(913) 440-1540

Whatever your discipline, become a student of excellence in all things. Take 
every opportunity to observe people who manifest the qualities of mastery. 
These models of excellence will inspire you and guide you toward the 
fulfillment of your highest potential.
-- Tony Buzan and Michael Gelb,
authors




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[PSES] IEC 60950-1 A2:2013 clause 1.7.1.3

[Sundstrom, Mike]

Thanks everyone for your replies.

The consensus is that every symbol needs to be explained in the owner's manual.


Thanks,

Michael Sundstrom
Garmin Compliance Engineer
2-2606
(913) 440-1540

Whatever your discipline, become a student of excellence in all things. Take 
every opportunity to observe people who manifest the qualities of mastery. 
These models of excellence will inspire you and guide you toward the 
fulfillment of your highest potential.
-- Tony Buzan and Michael Gelb,
authors




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[PSES] IEC 60950-1 A2:2013 clause 1.7.1.3

[Sundstrom, Mike]

I have a question about interpretation of this clause:

1.7.1.3 Use of graphical symbols
Graphical symbols placed on the equipment, whether required by this standard or 
not, shall
be in accordance with IEC 60417 or ISO 3864-2 or ISO 7000, if available. In the 
absence of
suitable symbols, the manufacturer may design specific graphical symbols.

Symbols placed on the equipment shall be explained in the user manual.

This clause can be interpreted two ways (maybe more):

All symbols need to be explained in the Owner's Manual.
Or
Only made up symbols need to be explained in the Owner's Manual.

I'd really like input on this, what was the intent of this added statement?

Thanks,

Michael Sundstrom
Garmin Compliance Engineer
2-2606
(913) 440-1540

Whatever your discipline, become a student of excellence in all things. Take 
every opportunity to observe people who manifest the qualities of mastery. 
These models of excellence will inspire you and guide you toward the 
fulfillment of your highest potential.
-- Tony Buzan and Michael Gelb,
authors




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[PSES] 802.11a (5GHz WiFi)

[Sundstrom, Mike]

Hello all,
My question is where can I find more information about the restrictions of only 
using 802.11a inside in the EU?
What document is that stated in?

Thanks,


Michael Sundstrom
Garmin Compliance Engineer
2-2606
(913) 440-1540

Whatever your discipline, become a student of excellence in all things. Take 
every opportunity to observe people who manifest the qualities of mastery. 
These models of excellence will inspire you and guide you toward the 
fulfillment of your highest potential.
-- Tony Buzan and Michael Gelb,
authors




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the intended recipient(s) and contain information that may be confidential 
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Re: [PSES] E-Labelling?

[Sundstrom, Mike]

Mike,
Canada allows electronic labeling for ICES-3 only. Not allowed for 
RSS-GEN/RSS-210.


Michael Sundstrom
Garmin Compliance Engineer
2-2606
(913) 440-1540

Whatever your discipline, become a student of excellence in all things. Take 
every opportunity to observe people who manifest the qualities of mastery. 
These models of excellence will inspire you and guide you toward the 
fulfillment of your highest potential.
-- Tony Buzan and Michael Gelb,
authors

From: Mike Violette [mailto:mi...@acbcert.com]
Sent: Friday, August 01, 2014 1:42 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] E-Labelling?

Thanks Ralph

Sorry for the abbreviation. Better : electronic labeling.

Mike Violette
Washington Labs  American Certification Body
+1 240 401 1388

On Aug 1, 2014, at 2:00 PM, McDiarmid, Ralph 
ralph.mcdiar...@schneider-electric.commailto:ralph.mcdiar...@schneider-electric.com
 wrote:
Do you mean the e-mark or the E-mark?
___

Ralph McDiarmid  |   Schneider Electric   |  Solar Business  |   CANADA  |   
Regulatory Compliance Engineering
Phone: +1-604-422-2622  |   Address: 3700 Gilmore Way, Burnaby, BC, V5G4M1
e-mail: 
ralph.mcdiar...@schneider-electric.commailto:ralph.mcdiar...@schneider-electric.com
  |   Site:Site: www.SEsolar.comhttp://www.sesolar.com/

From:

Mike Violette mi...@acbcert.commailto:mi...@acbcert.com

To:

EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORGmailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG,

Date:

08/01/2014 04:33 AM

Subject:

[PSES] E-Labelling?






Hi Experts,

I am looking for some guidance on E-labeling in the EU in particular and the 
world in general.

I understand that the FCC has made some small movements in acceptance of 
e-labeling and Japan has some situation where e-labeling is ok, but solicit 
information on other markets' approaches.

Thanks,
Mike

Mike Violette
Washington Laboratories  American Certification Body
mi...@wll.commailto:mi...@wll.com
+1 240 401 1388

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Re: [PSES] radiated emissions testing may understate actual emissions, an example using a class D stereo amp

[Sundstrom, Mike]

I'm pretty sure that:
The only reason the FAA is still using AM is they don't have the money to 
replace all the AM radios in use.


Michael Sundstrom
Garmin Compliance Engineer
2-2606
(913) 440-1540

Whatever your discipline, become a student of excellence in all things. Take 
every opportunity to observe people who manifest the qualities of mastery. 
These models of excellence will inspire you and guide you toward the 
fulfillment of your highest potential.
-- Tony Buzan and Michael Gelb,
authors


-Original Message-
From: ce-test, qualified testing bv - Gert Gremmen [mailto:g.grem...@cetest.nl]
Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2014 1:06 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] radiated emissions testing may understate actual emissions, 
an example using a class D stereo amp

Airplanes use AM for critical communications between airport and plane.
A reliable connection may be the difference between a safe landing and a crash.
Especially when flying low over LED lamps

Gert

-Oorspronkelijk bericht-
Van: Rick Busche [mailto:rick.bus...@qnergy.com]
Verzonden: woensdag 4 juni 2014 19:26
Aan: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Onderwerp: Re: [PSES] radiated emissions testing may understate actual 
emissions, an example using a class D stereo amp

Do we still have AM? Someone once called that was Ancient Modulation. :) I 
suspect that in a few years fluorescent lamps will give way to LED technology. 
As a side note, do LED lamps create EMI concerns?

-Original Message-
From: Richard Nute [mailto:ri...@ieee.org]
Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2014 11:02 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] radiated emissions testing may understate actual emissions, 
an example using a class D stereo amp

On 6/4/2014 9:47 AM, Mike Violette wrote:

Class B limits are amazingly conservative, to which large populations of 
devices ascribe.


Try using an ordinary AM radio beside a compact fluorescent lamp as on a beside 
table.

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[PSES] Foam Table Documentation

[Sundstrom, Mike]

Hello,
I have been asked to find where in the FCC/EU specifications it documents the 
use / requirement for the foam table on the test site. ANSI maybe?
I know it is a best engineering practice, but I'm having a hard time finding it 
in writing. I have been audited several times and even had notices when it 
wasn't in use on an OATS.


Michael Sundstrom
Garmin Compliance Engineer
USA
(913) 440-1540




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[PSES] Foam table for EMC site

[Sundstrom, Mike]

Hello List members!
I've been asked to find a supply that can provide the closed cell foam material 
used in a EMC setup as a table for OATS or inside a chamber.

Does anyone have any contacts?


Michael Sundstrom
Garmin Compliance Engineer
2-5156
(913) 440-1540




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