Re: [PSES] Conducted emission - AC line filters makes it worse
All so -- but I might also mention switching transients and unsuppressed high frequencies; I daresay semiconductor-switched phases could be a problem. Cortland -Original Message- >From: "Wiseman, Joshua" >Sent: Jun 29, 2020 8:17 AM >To: Cortland Richmond , "EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG" > >Subject: RE: [PSES] Conducted emission - AC line filters makes it worse > >I dealt with three phase a little bit at a previous employer. A couple items >that become important is whether it's a balanced load on all three lines and >if you're using a neutral conductor or not. We had options for with and >without neutral. > >Typically, we power the controls and single phase motors off of L1 and N or L1 >and L2 depending if we have a neutral. This often-caused higher currents on L1 >and if there was a neutral you could see higher leakage currents on it. > >Often our loads on L2 and L3 were three phase motors so filtering was not >always needed, so we would use a filter on L1-N or L1-L2 for the controls. In >rare cases where electronics/controls were used on other lines there would be >a filter on those as well. > >For products with resistive heating elements we did our best to balance the >load on each line. > >This never seemed to be a problem for us. > >Josh > >Joshua Wiseman >Systems Engineering >Staff Engineer, Product Safety/EMC >Ortho Clinical Diagnostics > > > >-Original Message- >From: Cortland Richmond >Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2020 1:50 PM >To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG >Subject: Re: [PSES] Conducted emission - AC line filters makes it worse > >EXTERNAL SENDER: Verify links, attachments and sender before taking action > > > >It's three phase -- and you'll need a three-phase filter sharing one return >winding rather than three single phase filters. > >IMHO. > > >Cortland Richmond > > >-Original Message- >>From: Amund Westin >>Sent: Jun 28, 2020 4:58 AM >>To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG >>Subject: [PSES] Conducted emission - AC line filters makes it worse >> >>A 3-phase product has three internal AC driven devices. >>The product fails on Conducted emission. When connecting AC filters to >>each internal AC driven devices, the emission gets even worse. >> >>Any clue about this phenomena? Is it some kind of impedance mismatch >>which derate the filters performance? >> >>BR >>Amund >> - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald:
Re: [PSES] SV: [PSES] Conducted emission - AC line filters makes it worse
You bet! I've done it many times. It's not perfect, but does give you a rough estimate. The only requirement is being able to butcher the power cord so you can get tat the individual conductors. Putting both through the clamp gives you the CM. Then take either L or N and twist it 180 degrees. Put both in the clamp and you get the DM component. Again, not perfect, but a good and simple way to start understanding what you need for a filter. Best regards, Brent G DeWitt Milford, MA On 7/2/2020 1:57 AM, Amund Westin wrote: I will try to get access to the product next week and do my own measurements for conducted emission (generic light industry limit). The lab does only offer me a spectrum analyzer and a current clamp for measuring / troubleshooting. Not a LISN. From the book «EMI troubleshooting techniques», Michel Mardiguian, there is a way to measure CM and DM noise with a current clamp. I’m planning to follow that procedure and do some initial measurements, and then repeat the measurements after modifications. Assume that improvements and lower levels under these measurements, will also be reflected when later on doing this with a LISN. Anyone who have tried such troubleshooting technique? Best regards / Mit freundlichen Grüßen / Mvh *Amund Westin* ** /Cell: (+47) 920 17 031/ /E-mail: //am...@westin-emission.no/ <mailto:am...@westin-emission.no>// /**/ *Fra:*Grasso, Charles [Outlook] *Sendt:* 29. juni 2020 16:40 *Til:* EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG *Emne:* Re: [PSES] Conducted emission - AC line filters makes it worse Hi – This IS an interesting problem! My question: Is the 3 –phase configures as a delta or a wye configuration? Also – What is the AC device (power supply/motors etc..) [Working From Home] Charles Grasso Crackpot Theorist Dish Technologies (c) 303-204-2974 (h) 303-317-5530 (e ) charles.gra...@dish.com <mailto:charles.gra...@dish.com> (e2) chasgra...@gmail.com <mailto:chasgra...@gmail.com> *From:*Patrick mailto:conwa...@gmail.com>> *Sent:* Sunday, June 28, 2020 9:50 AM *To:* EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG <mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> *Subject:* Re: [PSES] Conducted emission - AC line filters makes it worse This message originated outside of DISH and was sent by: owner-emc-p...@listserv.ieee.org <mailto:owner-emc-p...@listserv.ieee.org> Hi Amund This sounds like a very interesting problem. Likely many people will have advice. Maybe get lucky and someone will have had this exact same problem. I'd like to help if I can. Do you have more information on the failure? What test standard and test method did you use? How much over the limit? What filters were used and how were they connected? It could be an installation of good filters, but not wired for the emission type. Also could be wrong filter type for problem? Very interesting. On Sun, Jun 28, 2020, 2:58 AM Amund Westin <mailto:am...@westin-emission.no>> wrote: A 3-phase product has three internal AC driven devices. The product fails on Conducted emission. When connecting AC filters to each internal AC driven devices, the emission gets even worse. Any clue about this phenomena? Is it some kind of impedance mismatch which derate the filters performance? BR Amund - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas mailto:sdoug...@ieee.org>> Mike Cantwell mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org>> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org>> David Heald: mailto:dhe...@gmail.com>> - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. We
Re: [PSES] SV: [PSES] Conducted emission - AC line filters makes it worse
Amund: Why not minimize the uncontrolled variables by renting an LISN from a lab equipment supply house? Ed Price WB6WSN Chula Vista, CA USA From: Amund Westin [mailto:am...@westin-emission.no] Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2020 10:58 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] SV: [PSES] Conducted emission - AC line filters makes it worse I will try to get access to the product next week and do my own measurements for conducted emission (generic light industry limit). The lab does only offer me a spectrum analyzer and a current clamp for measuring / troubleshooting. Not a LISN. From the book «EMI troubleshooting techniques», Michel Mardiguian, there is a way to measure CM and DM noise with a current clamp. I’m planning to follow that procedure and do some initial measurements, and then repeat the measurements after modifications. Assume that improvements and lower levels under these measurements, will also be reflected when later on doing this with a LISN. Anyone who have tried such troubleshooting technique? Best regards / Mit freundlichen Grüßen / Mvh Amund Westin ** Cell: (+47) 920 17 031 E-mail: am...@westin-emission.no<mailto:am...@westin-emission.no> ** Fra: Grasso, Charles [Outlook] Sendt: 29. juni 2020 16:40 Til: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Emne: Re: [PSES] Conducted emission - AC line filters makes it worse Hi – This IS an interesting problem! My question: Is the 3 –phase configures as a delta or a wye configuration? Also – What is the AC device (power supply/motors etc..) [Working From Home] Charles Grasso Crackpot Theorist Dish Technologies (c) 303-204-2974 (h) 303-317-5530 (e ) charles.gra...@dish.com<mailto:charles.gra...@dish.com> (e2) chasgra...@gmail.com<mailto:chasgra...@gmail.com> From: Patrick mailto:conwa...@gmail.com>> Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2020 9:50 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> Subject: Re: [PSES] Conducted emission - AC line filters makes it worse This message originated outside of DISH and was sent by: owner-emc-p...@listserv.ieee.org<mailto:owner-emc-p...@listserv.ieee.org> Hi Amund This sounds like a very interesting problem. Likely many people will have advice. Maybe get lucky and someone will have had this exact same problem. I'd like to help if I can. Do you have more information on the failure? What test standard and test method did you use? How much over the limit? What filters were used and how were they connected? It could be an installation of good filters, but not wired for the emission type. Also could be wrong filter type for problem? Very interesting. On Sun, Jun 28, 2020, 2:58 AM Amund Westin mailto:am...@westin-emission.no>> wrote: A 3-phase product has three internal AC driven devices. The product fails on Conducted emission. When connecting AC filters to each internal AC driven devices, the emission gets even worse. Any clue about this phenomena? Is it some kind of impedance mismatch which derate the filters performance? BR Amund - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas mailto:sdoug...@ieee.org>> Mike Cantwell mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org>> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org>> David Heald: mailto:dhe...@gmail.com>> - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)<http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas mailto:sdoug...@ieee.org>> Mike Cantwell mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org>>
[PSES] SV: [PSES] Conducted emission - AC line filters makes it worse
I will try to get access to the product next week and do my own measurements for conducted emission (generic light industry limit). The lab does only offer me a spectrum analyzer and a current clamp for measuring / troubleshooting. Not a LISN. >From the book «EMI troubleshooting techniques», Michel Mardiguian, there is a >way to measure CM and DM noise with a current clamp. I’m planning to follow that procedure and do some initial measurements, and then repeat the measurements after modifications. Assume that improvements and lower levels under these measurements, will also be reflected when later on doing this with a LISN. Anyone who have tried such troubleshooting technique? Best regards / Mit freundlichen Grüßen / Mvh Amund Westin ** Cell: (+47) 920 17 031 E-mail: <mailto:am...@westin-emission.no> am...@westin-emission.no ** Fra: Grasso, Charles [Outlook] Sendt: 29. juni 2020 16:40 Til: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Emne: Re: [PSES] Conducted emission - AC line filters makes it worse Hi – This IS an interesting problem! My question: Is the 3 –phase configures as a delta or a wye configuration? Also – What is the AC device (power supply/motors etc..) [Working From Home] Charles Grasso Crackpot Theorist Dish Technologies (c) 303-204-2974 (h) 303-317-5530 (e ) charles.gra...@dish.com <mailto:charles.gra...@dish.com> (e2) chasgra...@gmail.com <mailto:chasgra...@gmail.com> From: Patrick mailto:conwa...@gmail.com> > Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2020 9:50 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG <mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> Subject: Re: [PSES] Conducted emission - AC line filters makes it worse This message originated outside of DISH and was sent by: owner-emc-p...@listserv.ieee.org <mailto:owner-emc-p...@listserv.ieee.org> Hi Amund This sounds like a very interesting problem. Likely many people will have advice. Maybe get lucky and someone will have had this exact same problem. I'd like to help if I can. Do you have more information on the failure? What test standard and test method did you use? How much over the limit? What filters were used and how were they connected? It could be an installation of good filters, but not wired for the emission type. Also could be wrong filter type for problem? Very interesting. On Sun, Jun 28, 2020, 2:58 AM Amund Westin mailto:am...@westin-emission.no> > wrote: A 3-phase product has three internal AC driven devices. The product fails on Conducted emission. When connecting AC filters to each internal AC driven devices, the emission gets even worse. Any clue about this phenomena? Is it some kind of impedance mismatch which derate the filters performance? BR Amund - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org> > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas mailto:sdoug...@ieee.org> > Mike Cantwell mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org> > For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org> > David Heald: mailto:dhe...@gmail.com> > - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org> > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas mailto:sdoug...@ieee.org> > Mike Cantwell mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org> > For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org> > David Heald mailto:dhe...@gmail.com> > - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineeri
Re: [PSES] Conducted emission - AC line filters makes it worse
Hi – This IS an interesting problem! My question: Is the 3 –phase configures as a delta or a wye configuration? Also – What is the AC device (power supply/motors etc..) [Working From Home] Charles Grasso Crackpot Theorist Dish Technologies (c) 303-204-2974 (h) 303-317-5530 (e ) charles.gra...@dish.com (e2) chasgra...@gmail.com From: Patrick Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2020 9:50 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Conducted emission - AC line filters makes it worse This message originated outside of DISH and was sent by: owner-emc-p...@listserv.ieee.org<mailto:owner-emc-p...@listserv.ieee.org> Hi Amund This sounds like a very interesting problem. Likely many people will have advice. Maybe get lucky and someone will have had this exact same problem. I'd like to help if I can. Do you have more information on the failure? What test standard and test method did you use? How much over the limit? What filters were used and how were they connected? It could be an installation of good filters, but not wired for the emission type. Also could be wrong filter type for problem? Very interesting. On Sun, Jun 28, 2020, 2:58 AM Amund Westin mailto:am...@westin-emission.no>> wrote: A 3-phase product has three internal AC driven devices. The product fails on Conducted emission. When connecting AC filters to each internal AC driven devices, the emission gets even worse. Any clue about this phenomena? Is it some kind of impedance mismatch which derate the filters performance? BR Amund - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas mailto:sdoug...@ieee.org>> Mike Cantwell mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org>> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org>> David Heald: mailto:dhe...@gmail.com>> - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)<http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas mailto:sdoug...@ieee.org>> Mike Cantwell mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org>> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org>> David Heald mailto:dhe...@gmail.com>> - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald:
Re: [PSES] Conducted emission - AC line filters makes it worse
I dealt with three phase a little bit at a previous employer. A couple items that become important is whether it's a balanced load on all three lines and if you're using a neutral conductor or not. We had options for with and without neutral. Typically, we power the controls and single phase motors off of L1 and N or L1 and L2 depending if we have a neutral. This often-caused higher currents on L1 and if there was a neutral you could see higher leakage currents on it. Often our loads on L2 and L3 were three phase motors so filtering was not always needed, so we would use a filter on L1-N or L1-L2 for the controls. In rare cases where electronics/controls were used on other lines there would be a filter on those as well. For products with resistive heating elements we did our best to balance the load on each line. This never seemed to be a problem for us. Josh Joshua Wiseman Systems Engineering Staff Engineer, Product Safety/EMC Ortho Clinical Diagnostics -Original Message- From: Cortland Richmond Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2020 1:50 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Conducted emission - AC line filters makes it worse EXTERNAL SENDER: Verify links, attachments and sender before taking action It's three phase -- and you'll need a three-phase filter sharing one return winding rather than three single phase filters. IMHO. Cortland Richmond -Original Message- >From: Amund Westin >Sent: Jun 28, 2020 4:58 AM >To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG >Subject: [PSES] Conducted emission - AC line filters makes it worse > >A 3-phase product has three internal AC driven devices. >The product fails on Conducted emission. When connecting AC filters to >each internal AC driven devices, the emission gets even worse. > >Any clue about this phenomena? Is it some kind of impedance mismatch >which derate the filters performance? > >BR >Amund > >- > >This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society >emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your >e-mail to > >All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: >https://nam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ie >ee-pses.org%2Femc-pstc.htmldata=02%7C01%7Cjoshua.wiseman%40orthocl >inicaldiagnostics.com%7Cabfcbc9f9cf542deb32708d81b8b%7C6e63ffc0c2fc >4cc4b6c4666b2ce89d92%7C0%7C0%7C637289634265705429sdata=N2ECiIFIrcR >kQB6x%2F%2BuEAmT1TW4jf4vwtcf0zLVoF3Y%3Dreserved=0 > >Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at >https://nam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fproduct-compliance.oc.ieee.org%2Fdata=02%7C01%7Cjoshua.wiseman%40orthoclinicaldiagnostics.com%7Cabfcbc9f9cf542deb32708d81b8b%7C6e63ffc0c2fc4cc4b6c4666b2ce89d92%7C0%7C0%7C637289634265705429sdata=nmNYPorgFSpYElcHaFCfmkql2QxJDnFaxecnVmLdvpc%3Dreserved=0 > can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. > >Website: >https://nam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ie >ee-pses.org%2Fdata=02%7C01%7Cjoshua.wiseman%40orthoclinicaldiagnos >tics.com%7Cabfcbc9f9cf542deb32708d81b8b%7C6e63ffc0c2fc4cc4b6c4666b2 >ce89d92%7C0%7C0%7C637289634265705429sdata=76RZT7uMDnQVk%2F%2Fdk%2F >zAyqDqpn69%2BHsbHCbleBlc6Ps%3Dreserved=0 >Instructions: >https://nam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ie >ee-pses.org%2Flist.htmldata=02%7C01%7Cjoshua.wiseman%40orthoclinic >aldiagnostics.com%7Cabfcbc9f9cf542deb32708d81b8b%7C6e63ffc0c2fc4cc4 >b6c4666b2ce89d92%7C0%7C0%7C637289634265705429sdata=bE1fCsDtvYAa%2B >NFvJFqMM3%2BlTYL4Md8iF8pJ6kotLys%3Dreserved=0 (including how to >unsubscribe) List rules: >https://nam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ie >ee-pses.org%2Flistrules.htmldata=02%7C01%7Cjoshua.wiseman%40orthoc >linicaldiagnostics.com%7Cabfcbc9f9cf542deb32708d81b8b%7C6e63ffc0c2f >c4cc4b6c4666b2ce89d92%7C0%7C0%7C637289634265705429sdata=4YzIhotaL% >2F6EELSPmBxN7Re93RGxwvI%2B2oaQTCcEYCA%3Dreserved=0 > >For help, send mail to the list administrators: >Scott Douglas >Mike Cantwell > >For policy questions, send mail to: >Jim Bacher: >David Heald: - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: https://nam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ieee-pses.org%2Femc-pstc.htmldata=02%7C01%7Cjoshua.wiseman%40orthoclinicaldiagnostics.com%7Cabfcbc9f9cf542deb32708d81b8b%7C6e63ffc0c2fc4cc4b6c4666b2ce89d92%7C0%7C0%7C637289634265705429sdata=N2ECiIFIrcRkQB6x%2F%2BuEAmT1TW4jf4vwtcf0zLVoF3Y%3Dreserved=0 Atta
Re: [PSES] Conducted emission - AC line filters makes it worse
It's three phase -- and you'll need a three-phase filter sharing one return winding rather than three single phase filters. IMHO. Cortland Richmond -Original Message- >From: Amund Westin >Sent: Jun 28, 2020 4:58 AM >To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG >Subject: [PSES] Conducted emission - AC line filters makes it worse > >A 3-phase product has three internal AC driven devices. >The product fails on Conducted emission. When connecting AC filters to >each internal AC driven devices, the emission gets even worse. > >Any clue about this phenomena? Is it some kind of impedance mismatch >which derate the filters performance? > >BR >Amund > >- > >This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc >discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to > > >All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: >http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html > >Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at >http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used >formats), large files, etc. > >Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ >Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to >unsubscribe) >List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html > >For help, send mail to the list administrators: >Scott Douglas >Mike Cantwell > >For policy questions, send mail to: >Jim Bacher: >David Heald: - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald:
Re: [PSES] Conducted emission - AC line filters makes it worse
Hi Amund This sounds like a very interesting problem. Likely many people will have advice. Maybe get lucky and someone will have had this exact same problem. I'd like to help if I can. Do you have more information on the failure? What test standard and test method did you use? How much over the limit? What filters were used and how were they connected? It could be an installation of good filters, but not wired for the emission type. Also could be wrong filter type for problem? Very interesting. On Sun, Jun 28, 2020, 2:58 AM Amund Westin wrote: > A 3-phase product has three internal AC driven devices. > The product fails on Conducted emission. When connecting AC filters to > each internal AC driven devices, the emission gets even worse. > > Any clue about this phenomena? Is it some kind of impedance mismatch > which derate the filters performance? > > BR > Amund > > - > > This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc > discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to < > emc-p...@ieee.org> > > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html > > Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at > http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in > well-used formats), large files, etc. > > Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ > Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to > unsubscribe) > List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Scott Douglas > Mike Cantwell > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Jim Bacher: > David Heald: > - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald:
[PSES] Conducted emission - AC line filters makes it worse
A 3-phase product has three internal AC driven devices. The product fails on Conducted emission. When connecting AC filters to each internal AC driven devices, the emission gets even worse. Any clue about this phenomena? Is it some kind of impedance mismatch which derate the filters performance? BR Amund - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald: