Re: [PSES] Current measurement

[Ken Javor]

I likely used the same current probe that Ed did ­ the Pearson Model 3525 ­
because it is flat from 10 Hz to 10 MHz, I assumed that it would be flat in
phase as well, but I didn¹t know if there was a fixed shift or not, so I
measured that and it was 0 degree phase shift, so I could do what Ed did.

Ken Javor
Phone: (256) 650-5261



From: Edward Price <e...@jwjelp.com>
Reply-To: Edward Price <e...@jwjelp.com>
Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2018 11:51:29 +
To: <EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG>
Conversation: [PSES] Current measurement
Subject: Re: [PSES] Current measurement

I had to measure inrush power and power during some function switching. I
had a really nice 4 channel digital oscilloscope with math functions, so
here¹s what I did.
 
1.  I put a 10x voltage probe on Channel 1 and verified the the probe
factor.

2.  I put a 1x Pearson current probe (very flat response up through 10 MHz)
on Channel 2 and verified the probe factor.

3.  I chose the waveform math to multiply Channel 1 times Channel 2 and
display this in Channel 3. This gave me Vrms displayed on Channel 1, Arms on
Channel 2, and real time Watts RMS displayed on Channel 3.

4.  I could then use the MAX & MIN cursor functions to find the highest
power draw anywhere along that power waveform.

 
I was able to trigger off the Channel 1 Voltage, but I could have triggered
on the current or even used an external trigger. Plotting the Power waveform
was really interesting.
 
Ed Price
WB6WSN
Chula Vista, CA USA
-Original Message-
From: Ken Javor [mailto:ken.ja...@emccompliance.com]
Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 1:09 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Current measurement
 
Unless you can look at both voltage and current on an o'scope and compute
phase angle between them, you are only measuring apparent power.
 
Ken Javor
Phone: (256) 650-5261
 
 
 
> From: Amund Westin <am...@westin-emission.no <mailto:am...@westin-emission.no>
>
> Reply-To: Amund Westin <am...@westin-emission.no
<mailto:am...@westin-emission.no> >
> Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2018 22:04:44 +0100
> To: <EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG <mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> >
> Subject: [PSES] Current measurement
> 
> If you want to calculate the consumed power (W) in a 1-phase AC
> circuit, you can use a current clamp-on device to measure the current
> in one lead/wire and multiply with the applied voltage.
> But with such a current clamp on device, to we measure the apparent
> power
> (VA) or the real power (W)?
> 
> Best regards
> Amund
> 
> -
> 
> This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society
> emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your
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<http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html>
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> Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities
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<http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/>  can be used for
> graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc.
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Re: [PSES] Current measurement

[Edward Price]

I had to measure inrush power and power during some function switching. I had a 
really nice 4 channel digital oscilloscope with math functions, so here's what 
I did.


1.   I put a 10x voltage probe on Channel 1 and verified the the probe factor.

2.   I put a 1x Pearson current probe (very flat response up through 10 MHz) on 
Channel 2 and verified the probe factor.

3.   I chose the waveform math to multiply Channel 1 times Channel 2 and 
display this in Channel 3. This gave me Vrms displayed on Channel 1, Arms on 
Channel 2, and real time Watts RMS displayed on Channel 3.

4.   I could then use the MAX & MIN cursor functions to find the highest power 
draw anywhere along that power waveform.

I was able to trigger off the Channel 1 Voltage, but I could have triggered on 
the current or even used an external trigger. Plotting the Power waveform was 
really interesting.


Ed Price
WB6WSN
Chula Vista, CA USA

-Original Message-
From: Ken Javor [mailto:ken.ja...@emccompliance.com]
Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 1:09 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Current measurement



Unless you can look at both voltage and current on an o'scope and compute phase 
angle between them, you are only measuring apparent power.



Ken Javor

Phone: (256) 650-5261







> From: Amund Westin <am...@westin-emission.no<mailto:am...@westin-emission.no>>

> Reply-To: Amund Westin 
> <am...@westin-emission.no<mailto:am...@westin-emission.no>>

> Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2018 22:04:44 +0100

> To: <EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG>>

> Subject: [PSES] Current measurement

>

> If you want to calculate the consumed power (W) in a 1-phase AC

> circuit, you can use a current clamp-on device to measure the current

> in one lead/wire and multiply with the applied voltage.

> But with such a current clamp on device, to we measure the apparent

> power

> (VA) or the real power (W)?

>

> Best regards

> Amund

>

> -

> 

> This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society

> emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your

> e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org<mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>>

>

> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:

> http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

>

> Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities

> site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for

> graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc.

>

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> unsubscribe)

> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

>

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>

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Instru

Re: [PSES] Current measurement

[Brian O'Connell]

Following opinions are mine alone, and were heavily influenced by my lunch-time 
burrito.

Looked at one about 10 years past and decided the design was, in my opinion, 
'marginal' per scoped safety standards; but have not looked at any recent 
product versions. Not accurate for high crest-factor stuff, and some inductive 
loads gave it temporary insanity. Readings were usable and reasonable over a  
limited temperature range (probably because of the current shunt's tempco) and 
for specific load types.

Many comments floating around the internet on this product, so there is 
probably a decent technical write-up available.

Brian


From: alfred1520list [mailto:alfred1520l...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 2:34 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Current measurement

While on the subject, any one familiar with the Kill A Watt meter? This listing 
sells for US$26 and free shipping: 

https://www.amazon.com/P3-International-P4460-Electricity-Monitor/dp/B000RGF29Q 

I swapped out the 2 mOhm current sensing resistor with a 0.2 ohm resistor (and 
of course greatly limiting the current capability) so I can measure standby 
power down to 10 mW. I did test with a 7 W incandescent light bulb and it 
reported reasonable readings. I tested are few phone chargers with nothing 
plugged and they idle at less than 50 mW. (But I don't know if I trust the 
figure down to decimal point:) 

It could be a really inexpensive way to get a reasonable (but not certification 
grade) power measurements. 

Best Regards, 
Alfred 



On February 12, 2018 1:36:10 PM PST, Brian O'Connell <oconne...@tamuracorp.com> 
wrote:
Will admit to having done this stuff with using microcontrollers and discrete 
sequential data channels and of sufficient sampling speed, but am subject to 
frequent bouts of idiocy. And this was for process control, and thus not a Type 
Test. Also, note that there is a difference in technique and equipment between 
power loggers and an analytical instrument.

Best done with an instrument intended for this measurement; that is 'power 
analyzers'. Typically found on shelves at Keysite, Tektronix (nee Voltech), 
Ametek, Chroma,  etc. And many Tek and keysite DSOs have a 'plug-in' for doing 
power measurements. All of this instrument-grade stuff can easily handle 
external sensors.


Brian

-Original Message-
From: Amund Westin [mailto:am...@westin-emission.no] 
Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 1:05 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] Current measurement

If you want to calculate t!
 he
consumed power (W) in a 1-phase AC circuit, you
can use a current clamp-on device to measure the current in one lead/wire
and multiply with the applied voltage.
But with such a current clamp on device, to we measure the apparent power
(VA) or the real power (W)?

Best regards
Amund

Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

-

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Re: [PSES] Current measurement

[Jon Keeble]

Shameless plug follows: check out the "Auditor": DIN rail, 6 channels,
three phases, real-time over WiFi or 3G, highly configurable, Class 1,
UL61010, etc. around US$200 includes CTs.

Jon Keeble
wattwatchers.com.au

On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 8:36 AM, Brian O'Connell
<oconne...@tamuracorp.com> wrote:
> Will admit to having done this stuff with using microcontrollers and discrete 
> sequential data channels and of sufficient sampling speed, but am subject to 
> frequent bouts of idiocy. And this was for process control, and thus not a 
> Type Test. Also, note that there is a difference in technique and equipment 
> between power loggers and an analytical instrument.
>
> Best done with an instrument intended for this measurement; that is 'power 
> analyzers'. Typically found on shelves at Keysite, Tektronix (nee Voltech), 
> Ametek, Chroma,  etc. And many Tek and keysite DSOs have a 'plug-in' for 
> doing power measurements. All of this instrument-grade stuff can easily 
> handle external sensors.
>
>
> Brian
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Amund Westin [mailto:am...@westin-emission.no]
> Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 1:05 PM
> To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
> Subject: [PSES] Current measurement
>
> If you want to calculate the consumed power (W) in a 1-phase AC circuit, you
> can use a current clamp-on device to measure the current in one lead/wire
> and multiply with the applied voltage.
> But with such a current clamp on device, to we measure the apparent power
> (VA) or the real power (W)?
>
> Best regards
> Amund
>
> -
> 
> This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
> discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
> <emc-p...@ieee.org>
>
> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
> http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html
>
> Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
> http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
> formats), large files, etc.
>
> Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
> Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to 
> unsubscribe)
> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html
>
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>
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> David Heald: <dhe...@gmail.com>



-- 
Jon Keeble
CTO

m: 0407 842 840
e:  j...@wattwatchers.com.au
skype:  jkeeble

wattwatchers.com.au

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Re: [PSES] Current measurement

[alfred1520list]

While on the subject, any one familiar with the Kill A Watt meter? This listing 
sells for US$26 and free shipping:

https://www.amazon.com/P3-International-P4460-Electricity-Monitor/dp/B000RGF29Q

I swapped out the 2 mOhm current sensing resistor with a 0.2 ohm resistor (and 
of course greatly limiting the current capability) so I can measure standby 
power down to 10 mW. I did test with a 7 W incandescent light bulb and it 
reported reasonable readings. I tested are few phone chargers with nothing 
plugged and they idle at less than 50 mW. (But I don't know if I trust the 
figure down to decimal point:)

It could be a really inexpensive way to get a reasonable (but not certification 
grade) power measurements.

Best Regards,
Alfred




On February 12, 2018 1:36:10 PM PST, Brian O'Connell <oconne...@tamuracorp.com> 
wrote:
>Will admit to having done this stuff with using microcontrollers and
>discrete sequential data channels and of sufficient sampling speed, but
>am subject to frequent bouts of idiocy. And this was for process
>control, and thus not a Type Test. Also, note that there is a
>difference in technique and equipment between power loggers and an
>analytical instrument.
>
>Best done with an instrument intended for this measurement; that is
>'power analyzers'. Typically found on shelves at Keysite, Tektronix
>(nee Voltech), Ametek, Chroma,  etc. And many Tek and keysite DSOs have
>a 'plug-in' for doing power measurements. All of this instrument-grade
>stuff can easily handle external sensors.
>
>
>Brian
>
>-Original Message-
>From: Amund Westin [mailto:am...@westin-emission.no] 
>Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 1:05 PM
>To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
>Subject: [PSES] Current measurement
>
>If you want to calculate the consumed power (W) in a 1-phase AC
>circuit, you
>can use a current clamp-on device to measure the current in one
>lead/wire
>and multiply with the applied voltage.
>But with such a current clamp on device, to we measure the apparent
>power
>(VA) or the real power (W)?
>
>Best regards
>Amund
>
>-
>
>This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society
>emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your
>e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org>
>
>All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
>http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html
>
>Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site
>at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in
>well-used formats), large files, etc.
>
>Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
>Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to
>unsubscribe)
>List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html
>
>For help, send mail to the list administrators:
>Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org>
>Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org>
>
>For policy questions, send mail to:
>Jim Bacher:  <j.bac...@ieee.org>
>David Heald: <dhe...@gmail.com>

-- 
Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

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Re: [PSES] Current measurement

[Brian O'Connell]

Will admit to having done this stuff with using microcontrollers and discrete 
sequential data channels and of sufficient sampling speed, but am subject to 
frequent bouts of idiocy. And this was for process control, and thus not a Type 
Test. Also, note that there is a difference in technique and equipment between 
power loggers and an analytical instrument.

Best done with an instrument intended for this measurement; that is 'power 
analyzers'. Typically found on shelves at Keysite, Tektronix (nee Voltech), 
Ametek, Chroma,  etc. And many Tek and keysite DSOs have a 'plug-in' for doing 
power measurements. All of this instrument-grade stuff can easily handle 
external sensors.


Brian

-Original Message-
From: Amund Westin [mailto:am...@westin-emission.no] 
Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 1:05 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] Current measurement

If you want to calculate the consumed power (W) in a 1-phase AC circuit, you
can use a current clamp-on device to measure the current in one lead/wire
and multiply with the applied voltage.
But with such a current clamp on device, to we measure the apparent power
(VA) or the real power (W)?

Best regards
Amund

-

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discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
<emc-p...@ieee.org>

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
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Re: [PSES] Current measurement

[Ghery Pettit]

VA.  You don't have any phase information when the two variables are
measured separately.

Ghery

-Original Message-
From: Amund Westin [mailto:am...@westin-emission.no] 
Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 1:05 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] Current measurement

If you want to calculate the consumed power (W) in a 1-phase AC circuit, you
can use a current clamp-on device to measure the current in one lead/wire
and multiply with the applied voltage.
But with such a current clamp on device, to we measure the apparent power
(VA) or the real power (W)?

Best regards
Amund

-

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discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to
<emc-p...@ieee.org>

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Re: [PSES] Current measurement

[Ken Javor]

Unless you can look at both voltage and current on an o'scope and compute
phase angle between them, you are only measuring apparent power.

Ken Javor
Phone: (256) 650-5261



> From: Amund Westin <am...@westin-emission.no>
> Reply-To: Amund Westin <am...@westin-emission.no>
> Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2018 22:04:44 +0100
> To: <EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG>
> Subject: [PSES] Current measurement
> 
> If you want to calculate the consumed power (W) in a 1-phase AC circuit, you
> can use a current clamp-on device to measure the current in one lead/wire
> and multiply with the applied voltage.
> But with such a current clamp on device, to we measure the apparent power
> (VA) or the real power (W)?
> 
> Best regards
> Amund
> 
> -
> 
> This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc
> discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to
> <emc-p...@ieee.org>
> 
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> 
> Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at
> http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used
> formats), large files, etc.
> 
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> 
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> David Heald: <dhe...@gmail.com>

-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
<emc-p...@ieee.org>

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
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Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

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[PSES] Current measurement

[Amund Westin]

If you want to calculate the consumed power (W) in a 1-phase AC circuit, you
can use a current clamp-on device to measure the current in one lead/wire
and multiply with the applied voltage.
But with such a current clamp on device, to we measure the apparent power
(VA) or the real power (W)?

Best regards
Amund

-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 


All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas 
Mike Cantwell 

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  
David Heald: